Jump to content

Photo

Ideas for the next software development competition


26 replies to this topic

#1 Asmusr ONLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • 2,819 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:34 PM

The 4K compo was fun, but some of us would have liked to be able to spread our wings a bit more. What do you propose for the next compo? Would you like to participate?



#2 RXB OFFLINE  

RXB

    River Patroller

  • 3,250 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, Washington, USA

Posted Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:41 PM

Currently working on a way to save and load entire SAMS 1 Meg of memory.

 

First try was DV255 then DF255 now working on 12K blocks of 48 Sector Program Image files.


Edited by RXB, Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:52 PM.


#3 Ksarul OFFLINE  

Ksarul

    River Patroller

  • 4,697 posts

Posted Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:40 PM

You could always go into a form factor that kept the spirit of what was available BITD, size wise: TI released one cartridge with four ROM banks (although that only really gave you 20K, as 4K of each bank was replicated) and had a 32K EPROM cartridge designed, although if someone wanted to add GPL into the mix, they could do something that added up to 40K of GROM to that. DataBioTics had cartridges with up to 64K of bank-switched ROM as well.  Of course, the most common ROM cartridges were either 8K or 16K, so that is also a good possible framework to work within. Sometimes99er gets an awful lot of stuff into his standard 8K frame, as did some of the older 3rd party cartridges.

 

Of course, you could always just set the limit at 32K and let it run in any space the programer wants to use (or go really crazy and write something that really exploits the SAMS cards).


  • RXB likes this

#4 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

InsaneMultitasker

    River Patroller

  • 2,158 posts

Posted Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:32 PM

Just thinking 'out loud'...  It seems to me one of the size challenges occurs when lumping the code and data together.  Maybe set the program limit at a specific value like 16k or 32k (whatever is comfortable to provide good competition) and allow for any (or a set amount) of map or program data?  Then you still have a boundary for the code side while allowing for larger efforts.  Rock Runner comes to mind, or tunnels of Doom, where the program is only one portion of the larger effort. 



#5 Vorticon OFFLINE  

Vorticon

    River Patroller

  • 3,229 posts
  • Location:Eagan, MN, USA

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:20 AM

The advantage of size limited contests is that they constrain the time commitment and level the field a bit more, thus increasing the number of willing participants. I think 4K was the sweet spot with lots of really great entries, although it mostly ruled out Basic and XB programmers with the exception of the indomitable Opry99er :)

But with any size, if we are going to allow all languages to enter the contest, then Basic and XB are invariably going to be at a disadvantage compared to assembly or other high performance languages, whether from the standpoint of execution speed or resource utilization. They might get an A for effort, but they cannot realistically win against a well made assembly program unless we institute some sort of handicap system.

 

I personally feel that it's high time to consider a Basic or XB (or any other flavor of XB) only competition with no size limit and let's see what people can come up with. Regardless however, I'm game to participate in any competition that ends up being the favorite pick, in any language. P-code anyone?  :grin:



#6 jrhodes OFFLINE  

jrhodes

    Chopper Commander

  • 134 posts
  • RUN "CS1"

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:01 PM

I personally feel that it's high time to consider a Basic or XB (or any other flavor of XB) only competition with no size limit and let's see what people can come up with.

You would have to decide if you would allow XB only, XB+32k, XB+SAMS.

Still, a XB only competition could yield some interesting results!


Edited by jrhodes, Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:04 PM.


#7 Asmusr ONLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,819 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:08 PM

The advantage of size limited contests is that they constrain the time commitment and level the field a bit more, thus increasing the number of willing participants. I think 4K was the sweet spot with lots of really great entries, although it mostly ruled out Basic and XB programmers with the exception of the indomitable Opry99er :)

But with any size, if we are going to allow all languages to enter the contest, then Basic and XB are invariably going to be at a disadvantage compared to assembly or other high performance languages, whether from the standpoint of execution speed or resource utilization. They might get an A for effort, but they cannot realistically win against a well made assembly program unless we institute some sort of handicap system.

 

I personally feel that it's high time to consider a Basic or XB (or any other flavor of XB) only competition with no size limit and let's see what people can come up with. Regardless however, I'm game to participate in any competition that ends up being the favorite pick, in any language. P-code anyone?  :grin:

 

If 32K is allowed then XB can be compiled and have additional support from assembly routines, e.g. XB256. I think that removes a lot of the disadvantage of using XB.



#8 RXB OFFLINE  

RXB

    River Patroller

  • 3,250 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, Washington, USA

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 PM

Why not expand to the SAMS, if there is one device lacking new programs than a competition for this is really truly needed and it works on most emulators now too.

 

I mean you saw a ton of programs for the F18 why not the SAMS?



#9 Vorticon OFFLINE  

Vorticon

    River Patroller

  • 3,229 posts
  • Location:Eagan, MN, USA

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:46 PM

 

If 32K is allowed then XB can be compiled and have additional support from assembly routines, e.g. XB256. I think that removes a lot of the disadvantage of using XB.

 

Yes, but doesn't compilation also introduce certain restrictions as well (floating point etc...)? Not to mention that it is still XB with all of its inherent limitations (single graphics mode, no direct access to VDP, etc...). While execution speed is important, it's definitely not the only factor here.

Again, I'll go with whatever you guys decide.



#10 Vorticon OFFLINE  

Vorticon

    River Patroller

  • 3,229 posts
  • Location:Eagan, MN, USA

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:47 PM

Why not expand to the SAMS, if there is one device lacking new programs than a competition for this is really truly needed and it works on most emulators now too.

 

I mean you saw a ton of programs for the F18 why not the SAMS?

 

With RXB fully supporting the SAMS, I would love to see that. I'm in need of an excuse to create a program that uses it :)



#11 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

--- Ω ---

    --- Ω ---

  • 12,495 posts
  • Location:워싱턴 주

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:51 PM

I have lots of ideas, but since I'm not up to the level of you guys, I'll watch from the bleachers .



#12 jrhodes OFFLINE  

jrhodes

    Chopper Commander

  • 134 posts
  • RUN "CS1"

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:11 PM

I have lots of ideas, but since I'm not up to the level of you guys, I'll watch from the bleachers .

I've dabbled in C years ago, but never made anything significant other then a command line version of yahtzee with ASCII dice graphics.


  • RXB likes this

#13 Bones-69 OFFLINE  

Bones-69

    Chopper Commander

  • 195 posts
  • Location:Australia

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:40 PM

XB compiled would be fun and perhaps get more involved in experimenting with the compiler....


  • RXB likes this

#14 PeteE OFFLINE  

PeteE

    Chopper Commander

  • 150 posts
  • Location:Beaverton, OR

Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:50 AM

Some themes:

1. Procedural generation

2. Game engine with level editor

3. Music competition (original or converted from other system)

 

I liked how the last contest was designed for the Mini Memory cartridge.  Contests could encourage adoption of other hardware too: SAMS, F18A, TIPI, FORTI...

 

Also I'd appreciate at least 8K for the next one :grin:



#15 adamantyr OFFLINE  

adamantyr

    Stargunner

  • 1,343 posts

Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 AM

Well, here is an idea for a competition...

 

How about an RXB competition? Using the latest version of RXB, write a game that utilizes all the fantastic tools that Rich has made available. Set a decent time limit on entries to limit scope, I'd say about eight weeks.



#16 TheMole OFFLINE  

TheMole

    Dragonstomper

  • 779 posts
  • Location:Belgium

Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:11 PM

I'm not into restrictions on languages, all other restrictions are fine (you don't take away a craftsman's favorite tools if you want them to be prolific). Targeting a specific HW platform to give it some much needed software support is a nice idea though, SAMS is definitely a candidate. If it's open to all languages/environments I'm definitely in this time around, I've been putzing around with some ideas recently that would be nice to work on.

 

Perhaps is shouldn't be games only this time, but we could include any type of program (demos, music, editors, tools, ...)?



#17 Asmusr ONLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,819 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:55 PM

I'm not into restrictions on languages, all other restrictions are fine (you don't take away a craftsman's favorite tools if you want them to be prolific). Targeting a specific HW platform to give it some much needed software support is a nice idea though, SAMS is definitely a candidate. If it's open to all languages/environments I'm definitely in this time around, I've been putzing around with some ideas recently that would be nice to work on.

 

Perhaps is shouldn't be games only this time, but we could include any type of program (demos, music, editors, tools, ...)?

 

If you're suggesting that we can only submit a limited amount of code, e.g. 8 or 16K, but we can expand into all the SAMS we want, then I think it's a great idea. Before you know it we will have this:

 

 

Edit: What I would really like would be a F18A compo, but perhaps that should wait for the MK2?


Edited by Asmusr, Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:13 PM.


#18 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

FarmerPotato

    Star Raider

  • 93 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:20 PM

I like the themed contests. I would go for a SAMS contest, or a music contest. 

 

It would be more about encouraging people to develop ideas toward something maybe we don't have enough of, or don't know what we haven't seen yet (:



#19 digdugnate ONLINE  

digdugnate

    Stargunner

  • 1,550 posts

Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:23 PM

I like the themed contests. I would go for a SAMS contest, or a music contest. 

 

It would be more about encouraging people to develop ideas toward something maybe we don't have enough of, or don't know what we haven't seen yet (:

i like the idea of a music contest, too.



#20 sparkdrummer OFFLINE  

sparkdrummer

    Dragonstomper

  • 930 posts
  • Status? I don't need no stinkin' status!
  • Location:Phoenix,Arizona

Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:34 AM

I'm pretty certain I'm in the minority, but how about a useful utility? I'd love for someone to revisit the much ballyhooed PRESS and bring it to life. Or maybe a revamped Page Pro or graphic utility? Don't get me wrong, I like the fabulous games that continue to be put out, but I ain't much of a gamer. My thrust with the ol' TI is shown here twice a month. Plus, ALL of my TIing is done on real iron because I prefer that.



#21 BeeryMiller ONLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Moonsweeper

  • 477 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:09 AM

I am not aware the source code to PRESS was ever released.  If it was, someone please let me know where it can be found.

 

An ambitious project would be starting from scratch writing a "PRESS" equivalent. 

 

Was TI-Editor source code, or source code for the editor from Funnelweb ever released?  It would probably be easier to begin work with one of those as a starting point.  If those were not available, I did have Peter Muy's Editor source code for MDOS.  It would provide the base that could be recoded for the 4A.  Just a thought throwing it out there.

 

I think the printing to a range of printers may be a challenge in this day and age.  It used to be printer manuals would have all the details and character codes necessary to do fancy things.  Today's printers, plug and play with maybe a CD for a driver.

 

Is there a DV80 to PDF tool for the TI-99/4A?

 

Something useful may be to target something for the TIPI nobody is working on.  Maybe some dreamers out there can come up with some ideas.........

 

Beery



#22 DuaneAL OFFLINE  

DuaneAL

    Space Invader

  • 49 posts

Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:55 AM

At whtech there is a press.dsk under word processors. Is this the Press you are referring to? There is a manual as well that really makes the software sound great. I think maybe RXB said he has the source?? Edit:beta, not source.

Edited by DuaneAL, Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:00 PM.


#23 Asmusr ONLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,819 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:46 PM

This is getting a bit off topic. If you have suggestions for the rules or scope of the next TI software development competition then please post them here.



#24 Asmusr ONLINE  

Asmusr

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,819 posts
  • Location:Denmark

Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:24 PM

i like the idea of a music contest, too.

 

Me too.



#25 Vorticon OFFLINE  

Vorticon

    River Patroller

  • 3,229 posts
  • Location:Eagan, MN, USA

Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:56 AM

 

i like the idea of a music contest, too.

Me too.

 

I am practically tone deaf  :D However, if there are no restrictions regarding the type of program allowed as long as it is music related, then I'm still game :)






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users