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1088XLD - Custom A8 Computer in 1050 Drive Case

Alternative Atari Motherboard Piggybacks 1088XEL tech Repurposing a 1050 case

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#26 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:04 PM

Spaced Cowboy @ Yes I believe there is a definite difference between those signals, and I knew it well when I designed the 1088XEL, but it momentarily escapes me (if someone doesn't hop in to answer that, I'll check on that later).

 

Mathy @ Since I have at least 4 UAV's in stock it made sense to use them. Please keep in mind that this is a 'personal' for fun project, so not everything will make sense to others, but I do have my reasons. However I also have a lot of space because of the larger board footprint, so if Bryan were to share his design with me, and assuming I could get thru-hole replacements for the chips he's using, it would be possible to build it in.

 

kheller2 @ I'm not into floppies anymore, so I don't see myself going that way.



#27 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:50 PM

Is there room for an XF551 controller and even a 3.5 drive? It sounds like a squeeze, but it would be fun.

 

Edit: Or in true XLD style, a PBI floppy controller... :)


Edited by Kyle22, Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:52 PM.


#28 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:15 PM

Is there room for an XF551 controller and even a 3.5 drive? It sounds like a squeeze, but it would be fun.

 

Edit: Or in true XLD style, a PBI floppy controller... :)

 

I guess some of you love your floppies  :) .

 

Kyle as I mentioned I won't be going in this direction, although it will have a built-in IDE controller for the CF Drive, so think of it as a more modern but still retro version of what Atari was trying to accomplish with their 1450XLD.



#29 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:17 PM

Hello Michael

 

Somebody has entered a replacement PoKey with dual Pokey mode into the ABBUC Hardware Contest this year.  That might save some space.  Or you could put two of those in, to get Quad PoKey...

 

Why don't you integrate Brian's UAV design into your motherboard?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

 

Does it support all of the normal SIO and keyboards functions as well? Or is it just audio?



#30 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:22 PM

 

Does it support all of the normal SIO and keyboards functions as well? Or is it just audio?

I sure hope so :)



#31 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:25 PM

I'm a little late to the conversation apparently, but I think it's cool as shit! As you know I've had no interest in the 1088XEL personally, I am too in love with my modified/hacked 1200XL's to care is all that is though. But seeing one in a 1050 case does give me pause. As for preservation, it's true it's not a good thing, but I personally keep a stock system, including a stock 1050, so I'm doing my part. My other 1050 has already been hacked, inside and out with modifications so I certainly wouldn't be hypocritical either, about using the case for a new mobo. I certainly like this idea better than some random mini-PC case or custom enclosure like Dr. Venkman's (which is beautiful, but not for me). I definitely need Atari style cases for my Atari stuff, re-used or made to mimic.


Edited by Gunstar, Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:28 PM.


#32 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:07 PM

So I'm bringing you over to the dark side  ;) .

 

So question is whether someone knows of a spray paint color that matches the XL's body, so that a PS/2 keyboard case could be painted to match.

 

 

I'm a little late to the conversation apparently, but I think it's cool as shit! As you know I've had no interest in the 1088XEL personally, I am too in love with my modified/hacked 1200XL's to care is all that is though. But seeing one in a 1050 case does give me pause. As for preservation, it's true it's not a good thing, but I personally keep a stock system, including a stock 1050, so I'm doing my part. My other 1050 has already been hacked, inside and out with modifications so I certainly wouldn't be hypocritical either, about using the case for a new mobo. I certainly like this idea better than some random mini-PC case or custom enclosure like Dr. Venkman's (which is beautiful, but not for me). I definitely need Atari style cases for my Atari stuff, re-used or made to mimic.



#33 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:39 PM

So I'm bringing you over to the dark side  ;) .

 

So question is whether someone knows of a spray paint color that matches the XL's body, so that a PS/2 keyboard case could be painted to match.

 

 

After years of searching, and settling for "almost" matches, my most recent restorations for XL's I've used a near-perfect match to brand-new XL colors. The first is Rust-Oleum's American Accents series Heirloom White, in satin. I just very recently found a replacement for the brown that is also nearly identical to XL brown. Though I've never had to paint any XL brown parts since they don't tend to yellow, or be as noticeable if they do, but I have painted CX40 joysticks, STM1 mouse and non-Atari peripherals with the white&brown XL combination. The "XL brown" I recently found, is also Rust-Oleum's American Accent series, it's Dark Walnut in satin. The actual painted surfaces looks even better than the paint can cap I think, especially since that cap is dirty with some over-spray on it too. I have previously used Krylon's Antiquie White, in satin, and it's also a near-perfect match. I haven't found a Krylon as good as the Rust-Oleum Dark Walnut though... I also use a clear-coat finish on my paint jobs, and it is a matte clear-coat. I find the combination of satin paint and matte clear-coat result in the near-identical sheen of the original plastics too. Previous to finding Dark Walnut, I was using Rust-Oleum Expresso Brown, which matches pretty good under natural daytime room-light, but not so much under artificial light, especially florescent and camera flash.

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  • 20180719_233016.jpg

Edited by Gunstar, Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:36 PM.


#34 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:36 AM

Thanks for paint color recommendations. I think I'll do both a keyboard and monitor to match when I get this project completed :). Although it will take a bit more time than the 1088XEL did before I get to a completed board set. Lots of other things coming down the road that will need my attention very soon. But I can be pretty dogmatic about getting stuff completed once I've started something, so it'll happen sometime next year for sure.

#35 Fox-1 / mnx OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:34 AM

 

Does it support all of the normal SIO and keyboards functions as well? Or is it just audio?

Pretty much full blown.

source: http://www.abbuc.de/...pokeymax#p79419

 

 

 

PokeyMAX

Introduction
The PokeyMAX is a complete replacement for the Pokey chip. It is derived from the work on the EclaireXL project, a complete FPGA based Atari 800XL clone. The intention is to build replacements for all of the Atari custom chips using this technology and Pokey has been built first. It can be used either to replace a broken/missing pokey, as a stereo upgrade, or just for fun!

Features
 If pokey is socketed, zero wire installation (mono)
 Dual pokey mode
 Pins for 3 audio outputs (left channel/right channel/mixed)
 Small footprint, only a few mm larger than original IC
 Supports all features: 8x paddle inputs, IRQ, serial I/O, audio output, two tone mode, high pass filter and keyboard scan
 High level of compatibility

 



#36 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:08 AM

A-W-E-S-O-M-E !!!!

 

I'm ordering PCB #2 now ! :D

 

How did you know I have recently bought an empty 1050 case just because the silvery label was still under the protective film (and thus NEW) so I could replace my 1050 case which had scratches on that silvery metal strip :D :D :D ???
(oh and yes I removed that protective film)

Anyway, I still have that bare 1050 case here and I still wanted a 1088XEL but this saves buying a costly mini ITC case AND finally give a good use for that empty 1050 case !! Woo-hoo !

About 810 idea: 810's are extremely rare in Europe and IF you have one over here better not touch them....

 

About POKEY replacement: Yes that is a very interesting project BUT it's not here yet. I seriously hope it will be a 100% replacement of POKEY....but "High level of compatibility is not 100% compatibility....) Also, it can easily be put into one of the POKEY sockets on that design Michael made so far and simply leave the other POKEY socket free. And .....there really is no reason to save space on this one, in fact I like that :D

 

About UAV: who stil wants composite/S-video output when you can have glorious RGB/Component or DVI with Sophia ?

But I do think it would not be "kind" to copy the idea of another Atari hardware tinkerer. Make it possible to use his product on this PCB yes....

 

I don't understand all those who want to keep that 1050 mech around...yes I do but simply stack an original (or modded) 1050 onto your 1088XLD :D  BITD I remember how drooling it looked when there were two 1050's stacked....usually you would only see this at computer club meetings to copy uhhhh, Public Domain software :D :D


Michael, current ANTIC/SALLY position is fine for AntiX :D


Oh and I notice still 9VAC input....yeah an internal AC to DC converter is a great idea when re-using the original 1050 PSU, but maybe make it also possible wo simply provide 5V DC ? I can imagine many people would prefer to use a modern day PSU or an old 5VDC (Atari) computer supply ?
 


Edited by Level42, Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:14 AM.


#37 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:09 AM

By the way....creating that 1088XLD label could prove to be an issue. So far no-one has ever reproduced the 1050 silvery label because of it's shape I guess......



#38 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:29 AM

Michael, AntiX schematics will be in the open after the ABBUC competition for anyone to reproduce it. 

I will also be making and selling the PCB's afterwards for those who do not want/or not capable of producing AntiX PCBs themselves.

So, you could in theory integrate it into this board, looks like there is space enough for a second ANTIC socket. However, AntiX uses a chip that is only available in SMD.....and I bet you won't use SMD as you didn't on 1088XEL either.....

Using an adapter PCB like this would take up a LOT of space.....and mostly defy the whole idea......

PA0041_0.JPG?osCsid=i1g6b20ln8t94hn2v2c1



#39 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:09 AM

Thanks for paint color recommendations. I think I'll do both a keyboard and monitor to match when I get this project completed :). Although it will take a bit more time than the 1088XEL did before I get to a completed board set. Lots of other things coming down the road that will need my attention very soon. But I can be pretty dogmatic about getting stuff completed once I've started something, so it'll happen sometime next year for sure.

 You are welcome, by the way, how did you make, or where did you get the 1088XEL badge for the 1050 case? I'm in need of a couple badges too.



#40 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:34 AM

You are welcome, by the way, how did you make, or where did you get the 1088XEL badge for the 1050 case? I'm in need of a couple badges too.


I guess my Photoshop abilities are getting better if you thought that was the real deal :). But at some point I will have to come up with a badge replacement that says Atari 1088XLD.

#41 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:59 PM

http://atariage.com/...port/?p=4075509

#42 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:38 PM

I think this looks better, and will probably stand the test of time.

 

badge.jpg

 

A guy sells these on Etsy, and I think he'll do custom versions if asked.



#43 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:33 PM

If that's the same guy as the one who offers these on Facebook he denied he would do 1050's ...I guess because of the angles...? If not I sure hope he can do 1050 ones :)

Another question......what will the front look like....I guess we'll need a 3D printed one. I still have the large brown bezel and it'd like to reuse it, so will the SD cards slots etc. be withiin that area ? Quite simply put, that would be the area of the mech only.

Another suggestion....you suggested to keep the LED but maybe it's nice to replace it with an RGB one to indicate some different states of stuff inside with different colors ?

Edited by Level42, Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:34 PM.


#44 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:48 AM

My thinking was to adhere this label over the original 'Atari 1050' logo of the original badge, thus creating a raised look. I wasn't looking at replacing the whole thing.

I'll be retaining the original brown bezel without modification, and going with a flat machined anodized aluminum panel in black to fit where the floppy originally did. This will have cut-outs for the cart and CF card, and also have the joystick and PS/2 jacks, as well as a few status LEDs.

#45 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:59 AM

Sounds awesome. I guess it'll be all through-hole ? 



#46 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:18 AM

Sounds awesome. I guess it'll be all through-hole ?


Of course it will :).

I now have 3 different powers of reading glasses, with the strongest being 3.5x, and sometimes I have to double that up with another pair when assembling PCBs. So although I can do surface mount soldering, and have, now days I try to stick to thru-hole devices where possible.

#47 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:59 AM

Is there any functional difference between /CI and /EXT in that case ? Not that it really matters because they're all part of the standard MPBI so you wouldn't be changing them anyway.

 

I leave myself notes for a reason  ;) .

 

1088XEL_schema_page1.png

 

Basically the difference is one signal is asserted by the PBI directly, and the other is related to the system mapping via the MMU, with both able to turn off RAM access.



#48 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:16 PM

PCB Layout Updated today. I got a lot more components in place and have decided to take a slightly different approach on the daughter-board business. At this point I think I've dropped about 85-90% of the required parts onto the board. Just need to add some SIP resistor arrays, some SIP headers, and finish adding the components for the power supply section. The nice thing is with the extra real estate that this board offers, no layering of components is required, thereby making life a bit easier when it comes to troubleshooting and/or re-flashing the PIC chips.

 

post-42561-0-96343100-1532235714.png

 

 

The cartridge port will require a small adapter board to transition from a vertical to right angle orientation, as well as for setting the correct height in relation to the front panel. There will also be a small status LED board required.

 

I'm going with a clock/oscillator IC this time around since these are available for both the NTSC and PAL systems in a x4 frequency (the extra 74HCT74 above it will be wired as a divide-by-four circuit). There will be a socket for this IC to facilitate easy removal and swapping.

 

14005-oscillator-socket.jpg14.31818 MHz   CO70024 (NTSC) -or- 14.187576 MHz   CO70034 (PAL)

 

 

The built-in IDE is based on the XEL-CF3 with but one exception, it has a 74F08 being used to buffer the 3 address lines. (these are un-buffered on the present day XEL-CF3 destined for the 1088XEL). I believe buffering those bits will yield even better results.

 

What look to be a 7805 and a 7812 linear voltage regulators, will actually be a drop-in switching equivalents with a 1.5 Amp rating.

 

TPSM842xx TO-220 Drop-in Switching Modules

 

TPSM84205.jpg

 

You can pick these up at Mouser for $4.63 each.



#49 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:15 AM

Of course it will :).

I now have 3 different powers of reading glasses, with the strongest being 3.5x, and sometimes I have to double that up with another pair when assembling PCBs. So although I can do surface mount soldering, and have, now days I try to stick to thru-hole devices where possible.

I find this hilarious because I just bought a second pair of reading glasses! The first is 2.0x that I use for reading, in mags/books or on the Internet. I just bought a pair of 3.0x that I use for working on my electronics, the 2.0x weren't good enough. But the 3.0x are too much for my eyes for anything else, unless I'm slumped over six inches from something like with PCB's. I still use a magnifying glass sometimes too, but not as much anymore as with the 2.0x.


Edited by Gunstar, Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:16 AM.


#50 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:21 AM

I guess were all in the same boat. I have +6 contacts already but definitly need reading glasses and I think this tool is one of the best ones I have bought recently:

http://s.aliexpress.com/mqyIJfEZI

I figured Id only needed it for SMD soldering but I find myself doing ALL solder work with it now.
Takes a bit of practice as its of course 2D but wouldnt want to have to do without it anymore.

Michael, will the 1088XLD use DIN 13 socket for Sophia RGB output like 1088XEL ?

Also: will the socket plus clock generator height be higher than the height of ANTIC/SALLY plus socket ?

Edited by Level42, Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:28 AM.





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