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WTB: Nice Condition Model 1 Sega Genesis

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#1 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:55 AM

I've been feeling the itch to swap out the 3/4 motherboard VA3 Model 2 Genesis that I have in my game center at the moment for a Model 1 system like I had as a kid, so I figured I'd ask around here to see if anyone had one in really nice shape that they'd be up for selling.

To be specific, I'm looking for one of two versions of the Model 1 Genesis system. The first is the version with the "High Definition Graphics" text on top and the TMSS start-up screen, which looks like this when you power it on with a game inserted:

rCSinGP.jpg


The second version I'd be interested in in a Model 1 Genesis without the "High Definition Graphics" text on top as long as it has the EXT port on the back, which looks like this:

DQAQnRS.jpg



Price wise I'm looking to pay around $45 shipped for a barebones system with just the console and official Sega power supply but I am open to negotiation and would be willing to go higher for a flawlessly pristine condition system.

Thanks much and just shoot me a PM if you'd like to do business. :)

Edited by Jin, Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:19 PM.


#2 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:48 PM

I um...have a model 1 va6 that has been modded that I don't really need as I've quite a few extras honestly. I don't have a power supply for it but it does have standard RCAs off the back of it but only for audio out. Not sure I can let it go for $45 though...It isn't flawless either as it has some love marks on it. I've honestly not come across a Genesis that doesn't have some scratches as even with the matte finish they tend to scratch easily. But I'm happy to take some pics and send your way if you are interested?



#3 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:33 PM

I um...have a model 1 va6 that has been modded that I don't really need as I've quite a few extras honestly. I don't have a power supply for it but it does have standard RCAs off the back of it but only for audio out. Not sure I can let it go for $45 though...It isn't flawless either as it has some love marks on it. I've honestly not come across a Genesis that doesn't have some scratches as even with the matte finish they tend to scratch easily. But I'm happy to take some pics and send your way if you are interested?


Thanks for the offer! Unfortunately I'm not looking for a modded system though and I am going to be pretty picky about condition for this purchase. I don't mind a few tiny scratches here and there, but I am definitely looking for a system with no major scratching and all the lettering on top clean and un-scuffed. Luckily I've learned that even the most easily scratched systems (the DSi XL comes to mind) can be found in near mint condition if you're patient enough and keep your eyes open on eBay, so that's most likely what I'll end up doing, I just thought I'd ask around here too.

Anyway, thanks again for the offer!

Edited by Jin, Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:06 PM.


#4 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:51 PM

No problem and I'll be sure to keep an eye out if should run across any you might be interested in. I do have a question though...

 

Why are you wanting a model 1 WITH TMSS? 



#5 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:00 PM

No problem and I'll be sure to keep an eye out if should run across any you might be interested in. I do have a question though...
 
Why are you wanting a model 1 WITH TMSS?


Thanks much! After pondering it a bit more I'm probably not going to be quite as OCD about condition as I originally said, and I found a couple pictures that I think are a good visual example of the condition I'm looking for:

8zCxSA2.jpg

RYLPBNi.jpg


A couple minor scuffs and scratches here and there but nothing too major. All the lettering on the top is in good clean condition, no yellowing on the reset button, all four rubber feet on the bottom are intact, and the expansion port cover is present. That's pretty much what I'm looking for.

As far as why I want a VA6 with TMSS, it's really just a matter of wanting to get a Model 1 with the best composite video quality. I've been doing some research to try and determine which of the many Model 1 variations have the best composite video quality and good sound, and this Sega-16 article seems to suggest that the High Def VA6 is the one I'm looking for due to the lack of rainbow banding in the composite picture that sometimes appears in other High Def Model 1s: http://www.sega-16.c...s-from-bad-ones

It's possible that I missed something in the article though and it's clear that you do know a great deal about Genesis hardware, so if you have any suggestions for other Model 1 variations that you think provide a better composite signal and good sound then I'm certainly open to suggestions. :)

Edited by Jin, Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:16 PM.


#6 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:50 AM

No..you are correct in that the rainbow banding effect (I've since figured out that this is actually the jail bars that plague most model 1 units that produce these), are less or non-existent on the later model 1 units. But it really depends on what video encoder is found in the genesis models that determines how much of this can be seen or not.

 

I will warn you though, that all the model 1 units pretty much have crappy composite regardless and that is even when compared to composite from other consoles. Especially on modern HDTVs the composite from the Genesis is just the worst. That is what lead me to do my first AV mod was to mod my model 1 genesis so I could at least read the text on Shadowrun again and other RPGs.

 

So..granted I've not had personal experience with every single model in my hand. But most of the model 1's I have had and used at some point in time.

 

the va2 model 1 has the most dynamic sound, but it also has more distortion on the higher end freqs. Also has pretty noticeable rainbow banding whenever there is a scene using a solid color background.

the va3 model 1 in my opinion, has the best overall sound of any of them as it doesn't have the distortion of the va2, but it also doesn't quite have as much bass and overall as dynamic a sound. But most will never notice this. It too suffers from the rainbow banding.

the va5/6 model 1 have good sound, but it is lower in volume due to the added filtering. I find them to be the least dynamic of the model 1 units overall. The rainbow banding isn't as bad on these in most cases, but is still there if you look hard enough or have AV equipment that makes them more visible.

the va7 model 1...just pretend this thing doesn't exist. It is literally the offspring of model 2 and model 1 together. It sounds horrid audio wise, but oddly enough tends to have decent video quality overall.

 

Then you have your model 2s...and that is all well documented as well.

 

I personally prefer to have the va2 and better, the va3 model 1. I've only got 2 model 1 va3 units. One is a US Genesis I resurrected from the dead using some parts from a near minty va7 (told you I don't like the va7...). And the other is my favorite model...my JPN MD va3. It it just bliss in a sega shell. But I honestly don't actually game on that model much and keep it in a genesis rental case.

 

There are ways to reduce the rainbow banding, but it requires modding the console and you can't get rid of them if you use composite or s-video. On s-vid you can tell they are the jailbars making the rainbow like pattern since they show up more clear and as actual thin stripes of slightly lighter or darker color compared to the rest of the background. It is caused by a ton of noise on the color subcarrier used by the composite. It also effects the RGB lines and shows stripes then as well.

 

Anyway, there it is... I believe some people have managed to greatly reduce or eliminate the "rainbow/jailbars" but installing different encoders into their systems that seem to filter them better. 

 

To be honest on a CRT the composite for the genesis looks pretty good and I'm not sure the rainbow banding issue was really noticed until HDTVs became more common. I certainly never knew about it until about 2005 or 2006 somewhere in there. 


Edited by -^CrožBow^-, Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:54 AM.

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#7 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:31 AM

No..you are correct in that the rainbow banding effect (I've since figured out that this is actually the jail bars that plague most model 1 units that produce these), are less or non-existent on the later model 1 units. But it really depends on what video encoder is found in the genesis models that determines how much of this can be seen or not.
 
I will warn you though, that all the model 1 units pretty much have crappy composite regardless and that is even when compared to composite from other consoles.

*snipped to save quote space*


Thank you very much for that wealth of information! I'll admit I am a little nervous about parting ways with my VA3 Model 2 for a Model 1, because the sound from my Model 2 is great and aside from a little oversaturation of the colors the picture via composite looks really sharp and nice on the Sony KV-20FS120 CRT TV that I do all my retro gaming on. I just really like the aesthetics of the Model 1 and the High Def Model 1 was the Genesis that I had as a kid, so I'm hoping I can find one with a picture and audio quality fairly comparable to my VA3 Model 2 on a CRT TV. Am I going to regret parting ways with my Model 2 or do you think a VA6 Model 1 will be pretty similar in sound/picture quality?

The only other thing I was wondering about was if a Non-High Def version Model 1 with the EXT port on the back would be just as good as the High Def VA6, since they seem to have pretty similar hardware inside and that would expand my search options and likelihood of finding a really nice condition system quite a bit.

Thank you once again for your advice and input, I really appreciate it! :)

Edited by Jin, Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:42 AM.


#8 sixersfan105 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:29 PM

Get a JVC X'Eye! Bought one a couple years ago and love it.

#9 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:29 PM

Get a JVC X'Eye! Bought one a couple years ago and love it.


Thanks for the suggestion, but this little quest of mine is really about getting the same type of Genesis that I had as a kid; since I'm kinda sentimental about the Model 1's aesthetic design. :)

#10 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:39 PM

Not to mention that picking up a model 1 in mint condition would still cost quite a bit less than a loose x'eye is going for these days. I will say that the x'eye had bar none the best audio out of any Genesis system from the factory I've heard. Likely because of the extra JVC stuff in it. But oddly the composite from the x'eye wasn't very good at all and if I had another x'eye, you can be sure that I would be drilling out the old hole on the back cover and putting s-video back on it!

 

The model 1's that don't say Hi Def Graphics on them, are usually va6 or va6.5 units. There isn't any perceptible difference between those. Basically the va5, 6, and 6.5 pretty much look and sound the same to me at least. If it has the ext port on it, it is likely a va6. I've gotten at least two va6 units that didn't have the high definition graphics around the top but did have the ext port. 

 

and believe it or not, there is still an audible difference between the model 2 and the model 1 units. It is because of the difference between having a discreet 2612 for FM vs the all in one embedded ASIC used on the model 2 that have the YM3438 tech inside them. Having the 3438 tech isn't the issue, just lots of other stuff that caused them to bugger up the audio. 

 

It is quite a thing to listen to how stuff sounds through a model 2 variant for a while and then hear the same stuff on a va2 or va3. Then again, I have much better hearing than eyesight these days so... it is still always going to be subjective. You might not hear a difference at all where I would.

 

I need to make a video someday that compares my va2,va3, va6 and one or both of my model 2 units (assuming they are different) on the same track of music recorded at the same level with no normalization being done to get a fair comparison of amplitude differences and such...hmmm...


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#11 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:13 PM

The model 1's that don't say Hi Def Graphics on them, are usually va6 or va6.5 units. There isn't any perceptible difference between those. Basically the va5, 6, and 6.5 pretty much look and sound the same to me at least. If it has the ext port on it, it is likely a va6. I've gotten at least two va6 units that didn't have the high definition graphics around the top but did have the ext port. 
 


That's really great to know, and it should make my search for a minty Model 1 a lot easier if I can include Non-High Def versions with the ext port on the back in my search parameters. I think I'll start checking around the local game stores later this week, since I know one in particular always has a small mountain of Genesis systems for sale. :)

#12 sixersfan105 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:37 PM

Thanks for the suggestion, but this little quest of mine is really about getting the same type of Genesis that I had as a kid; since I'm kinda sentimental about the Model 1's aesthetic design. :)


Ah yeah, I can respect the nostalgia aspect. I was a Model 2 guy back in the day but heard about the X'Eye a few years back and couldn't pass one up. They're definitely not cheap though!

#13 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:09 PM

Success! Found exactly what I was looking for at a local game store, a High Def VA6 Model 1 in pristine condition aside from a few tiny little scratches on the Genesis logo; and it only set me back $50 with official power supply, composite cables, and an official 3-button controller included: http://atariage.com/...oday/?p=4082529

Having now set it up and tried it out it's shocking how much better the composite picture is out of this VA6 Model 1 than my old VA3 Model 2. The pixels look sharp as tacks and the colors aren't oversaturated either. The sound is great too and has a little more bassy depth to it. All in all I'm really thrilled with the new Genesis! :D

Edited by Jin, Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:39 PM.


#14 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:32 AM

Having now set it up and tried it out it's shocking how much better the composite picture is out of this VA6 Model 1 than my old VA3 Model 2. The pixels look sharp as tacks and the colors aren't oversaturated either. The sound is great too and has a little more bassy depth to it. All in all I'm really thrilled with the new Genesis! :D

 

Until you put it on a flatpanel HDTV...that is when the composite goes to crap on the Genesis. There were two games that made me have to switch to an AV solution on mine and lead me down the road to put in the s-video on mine. Those games were Shadowrun (Couldn't read the text because of the composite though the TV), and Chase H.Q. because again, the HUD details were just ugly as could be. At the time HDretrovision cables didn't exist (Else I would have gone that route originally), and the traditional RGB setup was still quite expensive with only the Framemeister really being an option. So S-video into a converter was the option I went with. 

 

So yeah..just be warned about that if you ever decide to plug that Genny into a modern display.



#15 Jin ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:02 PM

Until you put it on a flatpanel HDTV...that is when the composite goes to crap on the Genesis. There were two games that made me have to switch to an AV solution on mine and lead me down the road to put in the s-video on mine. Those games were Shadowrun (Couldn't read the text because of the composite though the TV), and Chase H.Q. because again, the HUD details were just ugly as could be. At the time HDretrovision cables didn't exist (Else I would have gone that route originally), and the traditional RGB setup was still quite expensive with only the Framemeister really being an option. So S-video into a converter was the option I went with. 
 
So yeah..just be warned about that if you ever decide to plug that Genny into a modern display.


Thanks for the heads-up! I'm not too worried about modern display compatibility though since I'm not willing to give up playing light gun games, so I plan on using CRT TVs for retro gaming for the foreseeable future. :)





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