Ranger03 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 How were they done? list examples if possible. also, is the code from the ZX spectrum compatible (I.E Can i port Manic Miner to the BBC Micro using the same z80 instruction set as the spectrum?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 How were they done? list examples if possible. As far as moving objects go, it's done by brute force in software; each game is usually running around software sprite code that's optimised for what it needs and the chosen display mode - what works in Game A will be suboptimal or possibly useless for Game B - so there's not much point in listing examples as such. also, is the code from the ZX spectrum compatible (I.E Can i port Manic Miner to the BBC Micro using the same z80 instruction set as the spectrum?) Nope, the Beeb is a 6502-based system so you'd have to manually disassemble the original code, convert it to 6502, make some significant modifications for the different memory configuration and screen RAM layout and then assemble for the new target. Porting code between two systems with the same CPU isn't exactly easy without a fair bit of experience with both platforms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 what about the z80 processor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) what about the z80 processor? i meant the z80 second processor Edited July 29, 2018 by Ranger03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 i meant the z80 second processor There isn't a Z80 in the Beeb as stock, that's an add-on and not particularly common from what I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 torch, acorn? any of those work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 torch, acorn? any of those work? It's not that they don't work because they do albeit with caveats from a programming perspective, just that the original hardware is only marginally less rare than hen's teeth; your target audience for a Beeb program is reasonable in retro computing/gaming terms from what I've seen (and a nice bunch of people as well), but the number of folks running a Z80-equipped machine these days probably doesn't break the three digit mark at a guesstimate even with that Raspberry Pi Zero interface. And sure there's emulation, but hardware that rare is something of an edge case so there's no guarantee it'll be emulated correctly. Even if you find the hardware you've got an extremely laborious task of disassembling and resourcing the original Spectrum code ahead before reorganising it in memory for the new target machine, rewriting all of the video accesses - the two machines differ significantly on that front - and adding code to handle keyboard or perhaps joystick input... these aren't trivial jobs even for someone who knows both of the platforms well, what kind of Z80 experience do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Fuse it is. Sucks that the Beeb isn't Z80, 6502 is harder for me to program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 6502's easier for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 understandable. it's just difficult having to switch keysets for every mode. it's annoying really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Fuse it is. Sucks that the Beeb isn't Z80, 6502 is harder for me to program If you want a Z80-based BBC Micro then look at the Amstrad CPC series; they're clocked at 4MHz, use the same CRTC for video although with less actual display modes but add a 27 colour palette and have an AY for sound. The smallest machine is 64K and tape based but the majority of developers target the CPC6128 which has 128K and a disk drive because the machine has a whacking great 16K screen RAM. Rendering software sprites into that screen will be as time consuming as it would've on the Beeb though... unless your Z80 is pretty solid you'll struggle there too. it's just difficult having to switch keysets for every mode. it's annoying really Switch keysets...? Not sure what you mean there, command sets possibly but there aren't many CPUs from that time anyway so that's not really a problem with a bit of practise; I still class myself as a Z80 novice - my first Spectrum demo went out just over four years ago - but have been skipping back and forth between it and 6502 quite often recently to the point where my IDE is configured to assemble for a half a dozen platforms for each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 If you want a Z80-based BBC Micro then look at the Amstrad CPC series; they're clocked at 4MHz, use the same CRTC for video although with less actual display modes but add a 27 colour palette and have an AY for sound. The smallest machine is 64K and tape based but the majority of developers target the CPC6128 which has 128K and a disk drive because the machine has a whacking great 16K screen RAM. Rendering software sprites into that screen will be as time consuming as it would've on the Beeb though... unless your Z80 is pretty solid you'll struggle there too. Switch keysets...? Not sure what you mean there, command sets possibly but there aren't many CPUs from that time anyway so that's not really a problem with a bit of practise; I still class myself as a Z80 novice - my first Spectrum demo went out just over four years ago - but have been skipping back and forth between it and 6502 quite often recently to the point where my IDE is configured to assemble for a half a dozen platforms for each. on beebem, there are three sets: User Defined, Logical and Default. I have to constantly switch between the three to even enter a simple program in machine code Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 on beebem, there are three sets: User Defined, Logical and Default. I have to constantly switch between the three to even enter a simple program in machine code Cross assembling solves that easily enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 i'm learning z80 through the Amstrad CPC. might come back to the beeb sometime later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 I did not think there was a game running on the BBC micro - that would impress me. But having seen the Firetrack video running - this is that rarity on this machine. Don't know how it actually plays though - and how do gamers rate it? https://youtu.be/hjAWGauqTFg While there is a C-64 conversion of this game - in which the sprite movements look smoother - the colours are not as effective as the BBC version - though one? level does seem to be chosen from the C-64 palette that works well. I have no idea how C-64 gamers rate this game? https://youtu.be/te57na9SY_w Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 Honestly, i am surprised to see that this thread is still running. but, thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Firetrack has a score of 6.5 / 10 on Lemon64, which I think translates to "quite decent, but not memorable for all future". I've played the Beeb version and it is good, though the copy I've got is bugged so it has autofire and only lasts a level or so. There may be other games on the Beeb with similar qualities, though I can't name them off-hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Firetrack has a score of 6.5 / 10 on Lemon64, which I think translates to "quite decent, but not memorable for all future". It got a very good review in Zzap! if memory serves and I'd have given it a high 8 or perhaps 9 personally. Fire Track is a quirky game - it goes from being ordered attack waves to "organised" chaos as the levels progress - but fun to play on both machines. There may be other games on the Beeb with similar qualities, though I can't name them off-hand. There's a couple of similar-ish games from the 1980s but Fire Track is the best of it's kind until you get to Sarah Walker's White Light which was released late last year and I'd say that is at least as good as Fire Track. More generally, the Beeb doesn't have a massive library of shoot 'em ups but there's some good ones in there; Planetoid a rather lovely Defender-style shooter, it offers one of the best official ports of Uridium and a reasonable clone in Psycastria and both Exile and Thrust originated on the platform too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted September 3, 2018 Author Share Posted September 3, 2018 i wonder why some commands need a $ symbol. sees like an extra headach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Doesn't the $ indicate DOS commands as opposed to BASIC commands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 Firetrack has a score of 6.5 / 10 on Lemon64, which I think translates to "quite decent, but not memorable for all future". I've played the Beeb version and it is good, though the copy I've got is bugged so it has autofire and only lasts a level or so. There may be other games on the Beeb with similar qualities, though I can't name them off-hand. Firetrack is automatic fire, the "fire" button makes you fire faster heh... so that's not a bug. Being unable to go past level 1, is however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 One of those days I'll have to check it out. Perhaps it doesn't like running off my IDE interface and would work better booting from a floppy disk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted September 3, 2018 Author Share Posted September 3, 2018 One of those days I'll have to check it out. Perhaps it doesn't like running off my IDE interface and would work better booting from a floppy disk. i meant # not $ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 And I meant *, like in *DIR and *CAT, though $ seems to refer to the current device or directory somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger03 Posted September 3, 2018 Author Share Posted September 3, 2018 when am i ever going to use DOS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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