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Scramble (5200 Conversion)


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#51 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 9:33 AM

 

Didn't they do a really colourful pad for the Snes, if it was that company then it was really good and highly recommended.....Lovely pad it was, nice little individual autofire switch iirc...

Yeah they did, it's a nice stick too. 

I use an Asciiware Power Clutch SG (two, actually) for all my 8-bit consoles. It's a rock solid stick, it's cheap, available, has adjustable turbo speed, and generally feels like a solid piece of kit. Highly recommended. 

https://www.otcvideo...ant=36372324932



#52 Inky ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 9:42 AM

Oh well, it would have been nice to have been asked.

 

I was going to see if I could get the difficulty right in PAL mode.

 

And assuming I was successful ABBUC have missed out on a disk submission.

 

Anyway here's my mine which will support the Sega controller. Tunnels are normal by default (the wide option was for the 5200 non-centering stick). Also P is for Pause, R is for Reset. The rest is probably the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Downloaded and tried.  I REALLY like this conversion, but I have yet to try the Genesis controller option.



#53 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 10:42 AM

@Level42 -  I was pulling your leg...I know what you mean... :)

 

Re the sega stick, I'm sure I heard of possible damage issues from using a certain sega pad, the only thing is I can't remember if it was Atari or C64 related..

 

It was wiring related and a genuine problem, wish I could (from mem) think what machine it referred to..

 

I'll google it...

http://www.floodgap..../display.cgi?26

 

Commodore 64

"But be warned: There are rumours that SEGA-Pads can destroy your CIA! If
> you look at the pin-connections, it might be possible, though I don't
> know of such a case.

This is because joysticks (which the game ports were intended to support)
either pull the lines low (when active) or are an open connection (when
inactive). This latter condition allows the lines to be pulled low by other
sources (they keyboard for example). Sega gamepads, on the other hand, pull
inactive lines HIGH. Now if you press a key on the keyboard with one of
these devices plugged in, one source is pulling the line high while another
I/O line (cross-connected through the keyboard) is trying to drag it down.
This can put an extra strain on the CIA chip, as the circuit wasn't
designed to deal with this kind of situation. "


#54 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:20 PM

 

http://www.floodgap..../display.cgi?26

 

Commodore 64

"But be warned: There are rumours that SEGA-Pads can destroy your CIA! If
> you look at the pin-connections, it might be possible, though I don't
> know of such a case.

This is because joysticks (which the game ports were intended to support)
either pull the lines low (when active) or are an open connection (when
inactive). This latter condition allows the lines to be pulled low by other
sources (they keyboard for example). Sega gamepads, on the other hand, pull
inactive lines HIGH. Now if you press a key on the keyboard with one of
these devices plugged in, one source is pulling the line high while another
I/O line (cross-connected through the keyboard) is trying to drag it down.
This can put an extra strain on the CIA chip, as the circuit wasn't
designed to deal with this kind of situation. "

Never heard that, but I've used the same stick on the same XL for close to thirty years without an issue. And another stick on an XE for close to twenty. I'd say the risk is more theoretical than actual. Have several long-time collector friends who do the same.  
 



#55 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:48 PM

depends on the stick...  if you notice it gets warm or you get that slight plastic or hot  smell It wouldn't hurt to make sure....  what's the harm in being careful?  on the other hand I've replaced cooked components on the 800XL's ports before...  some were fine some weren't,  The sticks are normally pretty safe and interchangeable .... but there are quite a range and variety of them out there with various configuration and pcb layouts. I think it's wise to make sure.  I mean it's almost always an easy fix to convert sticks etc-very simple inside... greater idea is to be safe than sorry... plenty of safe choices and you can make your own..  who knows maybe some one will make a complete list of safe stuff, stuff to modify, or make. The single button issue was address over the years by using more than one stick, keypresses, direction with fire, and custom solutions. Just cause something works just enough doesn't mean it can't or wont stress things. I always thought using a combined paddle stick with buttons would have been cool, but that just another one of those wishes, then peeps will say,, bother using paddle or spinner only blah blah games were made... yet if a combined pad/stick/paddle/spinner existed, we'd have more than one fire button and more choices leads to more things that use it....  Same thing happens about software.. how many have spinner driving controller, oh not many... let's not use that...  so let's be brave and make games that do, who knows what controllers or other software may follow.

 

Back to scramble! so far pretty d*mn nice  :).  I'd say I'm out of practice, that's just my excuse for failing eyesight and reaction times on my part...


Edited by _The Doctor__, Wed Aug 8, 2018 1:49 PM.


#56 kiwilove OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 4:20 PM

For those who find the game is simply too hard?  It's time to swallow your pride and use the game's Easy Settings - which will put it in an almost training mode.  Oh - you're doing that already?  Well it's time to invite a younger player around to try it out for you - and enjoy the view - seeing their frustration and eventual conquering of the game - just don't let them play with a breakable joystick as they clench their sweaty fist and push the joystick hard left and hard right etc.  Maybe someone will write a Player's Guide for the rest of us.

You are not alone in finding this game on the hard side - but then - it's just like the coin-op arcade machine! 

 

Harvey


Edited by kiwilove, Wed Aug 8, 2018 4:24 PM.


#57 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 4:33 PM

So what's your hi-scores guys ?



#58 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 4:44 PM

Never heard that, but I've used the same stick on the same XL for close to thirty years without an issue. And another stick on an XE for close to twenty. I'd say the risk is more theoretical than actual. Have several long-time collector friends who do the same.  
 

If you look at the top of the quote it refers to the C64. Meaning, the issue Mclaneinc was thinking of was for the C64, not the Atari's. Atari's don't have the same problem as the C64's. The keyboard is not linked to the controller port the way it is on the C64. Main limit for Atari computers might be low current limit on the +5 VCC compared to something like an Amiga, but its not common to find things that power hungry. There was a very accurate Smallymouse USB mouse to Atari port adapter that had some issues with this, so they added an external auxillary 5V line to the adapter. However, it seemed to vary amongst users, so it could have been anything from board revisions to pre-existing problems.



#59 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 4:52 PM

For those who find the game is simply too hard?  It's time to swallow your pride and use the game's Easy Settings - which will put it in an almost training mode.  Oh - you're doing that already?  Well it's time to invite a younger player around to try it out for you - and enjoy the view - seeing their frustration and eventual conquering of the game - just don't let them play with a breakable joystick as they clench their sweaty fist and push the joystick hard left and hard right etc.  Maybe someone will write a Player's Guide for the rest of us.

You are not alone in finding this game on the hard side - but then - it's just like the coin-op arcade machine! 

 

Harvey

There's a few scramble ports out there now, might as well have one now that offers a bit more challenge.



#60 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 5:19 PM

It's a great port, possibly one of the best.



#61 Lord Thag OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 5:25 PM

depends on the stick...  if you notice it gets warm or you get that slight plastic or hot  smell It wouldn't hurt to make sure....  what's the harm in being careful?  on the other hand I've replaced cooked components on the 800XL's ports before...  some were fine some weren't,  The sticks are normally pretty safe and interchangeable .... but there are quite a range and variety of them out there with various configuration and pcb layouts. I think it's wise to make sure.  I mean it's almost always an easy fix to convert sticks etc-very simple inside... greater idea is to be safe than sorry... plenty of safe choices and you can make your own..  who knows maybe some one will make a complete list of safe stuff, stuff to modify, or make. The single button issue was address over the years by using more than one stick, keypresses, direction with fire, and custom solutions. Just cause something works just enough doesn't mean it can't or wont stress things. I always thought using a combined paddle stick with buttons would have been cool, but that just another one of those wishes, then peeps will say,, bother using paddle or spinner only blah blah games were made... yet if a combined pad/stick/paddle/spinner existed, we'd have more than one fire button and more choices leads to more things that use it....  Same thing happens about software.. how many have spinner driving controller, oh not many... let's not use that...  so let's be brave and make games that do, who knows what controllers or other software may follow.

 

Back to scramble! so far pretty d*mn nice  :).  I'd say I'm out of practice, that's just my excuse for failing eyesight and reaction times on my part...

Like you said then, probably depends on the stick. I've never had any issue, heating, weird smells etc. with the Ascii Power Clutch or the old Batarang three buttons, which I've always used. I imagine some of the others could cause issues, like you said, but I've put thousands of hours on those models and they don't heat up at all.

Might be a good idea to compile a list of what does and does not work.

But back on topic. Scramble is outstanding. What a great port.


Edited by Lord Thag, Wed Aug 8, 2018 5:25 PM.


#62 Heaven/TQA ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 11:36 PM

Ok. So I understand on our lovely Atari we can use SEGA genesis pads? (And should not try them on my commodores)

- 800
- 800 XL
- 130 XE
- 65XE with VBXE

?

#63 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 11:48 PM

Ok. So I understand on our lovely Atari we can use SEGA genesis pads? (And should not try them on my commodores)

- 800
- 800 XL
- 130 XE
- 65XE with VBXE

?

 

Genesis, SMS or Amiga sticks/pads, as well, if you prefer. SMS works since pin 7 is only connected on the SMS phaser light gun.



#64 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 5:02 AM

If we are going to go down the route of what was considered harmful to the old machines then some may remember the warning to NOT plug in joysticks or any other  peripherals while the machine is on...

 

Drives etc I can understand for a multitude of reasons but I'm pretty sure even then there was diode protection for joysticks, possibly not on the Atari (not sure, someone on here will know for sure)..

 

So the point, be careful what you plug in while its on and if its not designed for it then MAKE SURE its ok..

 

And back on topic....Played more of the Scramble and its just so much fun....Hard yes but there's options and its about the same as the arcade..Job done, near perfect port..



#65 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 8:51 AM

Plugging in joysticks can never do Harm while powered on. A joystick is just a bunch of switches dragging an input to GND when the switch is closed.....that’s it....impossible to damage anything by (un)plugging them.

#66 Inky ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 9:03 AM

I could have sworn that I read somewhere, in regards to joysticks hurting a system, that using the 7800 sticks on the ST could damage the computer



#67 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 11:22 AM

I am really enjoying this game.



#68 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 12:10 PM

Plugging in joysticks can never do Harm while powered on. A joystick is just a bunch of switches dragging an input to GND when the switch is closed.....that’s it....impossible to damage anything by (un)plugging them.

 

Never stopped some companies at the time saying don't do it BUT I'd imagine it was more to put off kids trying to poke stiff in to it while it was on, full stop...You know kids, if a joystick goes there then what else can, at least with the machine off there was a hugely diminished risk of problems..

 

I remember the days when kids poked forks in to the mains sockets..



#69 Jetboot Jack OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:32 AM

Plugging in joysticks can never do Harm while powered on. A joystick is just a bunch of switches dragging an input to GND when the switch is closed.....that’s it....impossible to damage anything by (un)plugging them.

 

 

True on some machines like the A8 - but on some other 8bit systems the IO ports shared functionality with other sub-systems at boot up or during tape/disk access - so it was unhealthy to plug in or remove sticks on some computers (the early C64 springs to mind) when the power was on - I have repaired a fair few non Atari machines suffering from popped IO controller chips when all that was done was plug in the stick...

 

sTeVE


Edited by Jetboot Jack, Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:33 AM.


#70 Sikor OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:33 PM

So, short review (Polish) on retro na gazie: http://www.retronaga...ostki-oryginal/:)



#71 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:44 PM

True on some machines like the A8 - but on some other 8bit systems the IO ports shared functionality with other sub-systems at boot up or during tape/disk access - so it was unhealthy to plug in or remove sticks on some computers (the early C64 springs to mind) when the power was on - I have repaired a fair few non Atari machines suffering from popped IO controller chips when all that was done was plug in the stick...
 
sTeVE


But....unless you hold a button or the stick to one direction.....non of the switches are closed.....so if you plug-in a stick without.....



Wait we are WAY off topic here....


Man I actually forgot how much I loved Scramble,,,..and I also forgot on which system I played it BITD and loved it ....might have been my cousins C64......

#72 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:42 PM

Man I have been playing Scramble more than any of the other recent games for the A8 (although those are great too).

 

The entire game screams quality and I enjoy it immensely  !!! I wanted to do something in return (with a donation) but Paul kindly refused.....

 

However....I do have one point of constructive criticism......in th hope to make the game even better:

 

I would like to kindly ask to reconsider the animated player's ship. 

 

First of all., this wasn't there in the arcade version. But this is also true for the rockets and other moving enemies.

But...I really like those...they really add something and don't harm gameplay.

 

But the constant movement of the player's ship........ I would really really love it if that was removed....

I know it's meant well but....I have two things about it:

 

1) it looks.....weird. The rotating backside isn't too bad to watch, but the cockpit.....what's going on in there ? :D :D  Sorry but it looks like a goose flying with it's head bobbing constantly....it really is weird...never saw a spaceship do that ;)
Seriously: Scramble is not a game that tries to be funny, but this animation makes the ship look laughable.....

 

2) the rotation of the backside (and in lesser sense the bobbing of the cockpit) makes it a bit "random" when you might hit something. F.I. you could move close to the ground or a building when the ship is very small vertically, but a quarter of a second later it "spreads it's wings" and becomes much taller vertically which may well make you hit something.... this is especially true in the narrow tunnels in the city....

Yes I guess most will say I'm complaining about something futile, but with arcade games like this, these things matter....every pixel counts !!

So I hope Playsoft might reconsider the animation of the ship.....or maybe add an option to turn it on or off.....that would be simply awesome....

But seriously...this is only a minor thing....even as it is right now.....I love love love playing it ....totally refueled my interest in a game of which I THOUGHT I was completely bored with.... :D :D :D


Edited by Level42, Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:48 PM.


#73 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:08 AM

Yeah the ships a little odd compared to the arcade version, maybe it was Pauls way to stamp something of his own on it or there's something more technical that stopped it, it would be nice to see it without that but as Level42 says, its just so much fun its hard to put down so its ticked all the boxes as well :)

 

I'd love to hear Playsofts take on this as would Level42....



#74 kiwilove OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:48 PM

OK - to clear up this particular query/etc.

 

The design of the ship was my own design as such - seeing I could not fit the arcade ship design within the Atari player (sprite) limitations.

You can have a go yourself - with the original ship design - using Paul's Player Editor (from his website) - and see that there's not enough pixels available to work with.

 

And so I came up with this design instead - with it's animation.  I'm happy with what I have done.

 

If someone comes up with a better working design (whether it's based on the original coin-op design or something original) - that I think works better.

I would be quite happy for that to be used - in some kind of update.  If Paul wants to do that?  It would have to meet his approval too.

 

You can always argue any which way - about the animation used.  It is Sci-Fi design - probably a combination of old and new (exotic) tech - ie. rocketry plus some new high tech - giving you unlimited missiles and bombs in the process.

 

Anyone who knows my 'work' - will know that I have done a reasonable number over the years - and generally I am happy with most of them.  The few I am less than happy with - I won't point out - but know which ones they are...

 

If you're not happy with what I've done here - then do something better yourself?

 

I do think certain games - could have done with better graphics - but I won't publicly name them - for fear of upsetting anyone out there who may take offense.

I think certain games could look a lot better - if graphic guys (and girls) become involved with them.

Not everyone is concerned with getting paid for their time on projects - and like to see the bar (of quality) raised.

Programmers could raise their standard also - if they added more animations on screen - but this depends on what memory is available - and if they wish to allocate more memory for this use?

 

I don't mind people being critical of what I have done - because I'm always a critic of my own work.  And I'm all for this particular project for being the best it can be.

When you're designing graphics - you can only go by your own internal processes - because that is what you do.  And when it's done - it's done.

You rarely have the chance to go back and make a change.

 

I am writing my own comments etc here.  Paul's views are not the same as mine on most things.  Maybe if he sees a better design working - maybe he'll make an exception and make use of it?  Maybe not?

 

And if you thought this ship design/animation is crappy (not suitable) - well, you haven't see the others - that were worse off....

 

Harvey


Edited by kiwilove, Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:50 PM.


#75 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:27 PM

wow this is getting way of kilter here..... the game is great... I set config for smaller ship. I am certain he could have scaled and put something close to the original there or a flying boot if so desired.... it was his choice and his call...

 

This is one of the best scramble ports going.... so cheer up!

 

_The Road Warrior__






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