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ON TOPIC: Ponderings


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#1 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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    HexaCoreRunner

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Posted Mon Aug 6, 2018 6:36 PM

With the P-Box TIPI released, coupled with it's massive (TI-wise) storage capability on the RPi, combined with one of the 1024K SAMS cards, I wonder what the first 'exploit' will be year or so 'down the line'.

 

Do you guys have any predictions?



#2 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 7, 2018 5:07 AM

Another thing to ponder...

 

How many basic P-Boxes with only 32K and an original 5.25 floppy do you think are floating around out there unused?  Many of those systems will suddenly become viable for use again with a single TIPI card.



#3 HOME AUTOMATION OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 7, 2018 7:37 AM

I personally prefer the sidecar 32K+TIPI. I imagine I could use a side-port splitter to hook it up with my P-BOX for the purposes of data x-fer or prototyping. I have 2 PEBs as you mentioned plus rs2323s I obtained years ago as bakups to my main PEB w corcomps in it. Before TIPI I had been forced to DEVELOP on my MINIMEMORY and store on .WAVs using a voice recorder. Because of limited space!

The AIRCRAFT CARRIER + FIRE-HOSE + ELEPHANT-PAW + CONSOLE + MONITOR = NO DEVELOPMENT AREA.

...and the original sidecars... TI board members must have assumed that we users all hold board meetings as well, so we all must have conference tables.

At the high-rate TIPI x-fers data, block swapping makes fair use of 32k. however intense apps or games benefit from more RAM. Considering conservation of space and 512K x 127 = 64Meg I imagine a FINALGROM to be my final solution.

TIPI + 32K + FINALGROM + CONSOLE + MONITOR(tiny) = ROOM TO GROW

and after all, we're merely passengers here...



#4 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 7, 2018 8:32 AM

The AIRCRAFT CARRIER + FIRE-HOSE + ELEPHANT-PAW + CONSOLE + MONITOR = NO DEVELOPMENT AREA.
 

 

"Aircraft Carrier"... that's a good one and gave me a belly laugh this morning, thanks for that!  :thumbsup:

 

For those already with P-Boxes, or those needing other specialty cards, the P-Box is where it's at.  I also like the sidecar model, but I also need extra capability, so I opted for both.  Both versions are great and offer something for everyone.

 

I got to thinking though, how inexpensive the TIPI option really is compared to our original investment(s) back in the day.  If I remember correctly, I paid $150.00 back in 1983 for my TI RS-232 and probably a little more for my TI Acoustical modem, but let's say $300.00 for both.  In today's dollars that's a little over $750.00 to get 'online'.

 

Now days, the TIPI, RPI3, power cord and an SD card will come in under $200.00, in 1983 dollars that's just under $80.00 to get online, but you also get way more than just 'online' you get storage space up the Wazoo that people would have spent quite literally THOUSANDS of dollars for back then.

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#5 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:03 AM

Today I pondered, what will.... 'never be'.

 

Even though we probably have the greatest percentage (as a group) of Triple Tech Card users that have probably ever been in one place, it's still a rare card.  In fact I believe the last piece of useful software ever written for it was SETCLOCK by Gazoo back in 2015.  

 

While P-Box TIPI users will grow somewhat over time, we are still a microscopic blip on the scene.  How many P-Box users own both a TIPI & Triple Tech Cards?  One, two, maybe three at most?  With numbers like that, the odds of one of them being an assembly level programmer is probably slim to none.  So the dream of an automatic time setting program for the Triple Tech Card is probably an empty one.

 

It would be cool though, imagine a program that takes the Internet time off the RPi and sets the Triple Tech Clock with it.  Never again would your TI's clock be off!

Now imagine if such a program could be written to load up another program?  Say for example you wanted to run REMIND-ME, you would run this new program which would set the clock instantly and then load up the REMIND-ME program.  Awesomeness... that will never be. 



#6 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:07 AM

You mention a program setting the Triple Tech time from the RPI, what about a program setting the Myrac HFDC time?



#7 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:18 AM

How were these clock's accessed?  It looked to me like the date time components were available in memory mapped addresses. Which makes me suspect the DSR API is not regularly used, since poking a crubit and then reading a memory address is far easier than setting up a PAB and making a DSRLNK request.

 

Are the corcomp clock and the corcomp Triple Tech clock 100% compatible?  was the HFDC clock DSR compatible with the corcomp clock?   

 

OPEN #1:"CLOCK" ????  level of compatibility is what I'm talking about...

 

Is there any value in adding a DSR level compatible "CLOCK" device to TIPI?  Or would 100% of the software that ins't BASIC still fail? 

 

-M@



#8 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:41 AM

 

... was the HFDC clock DSR compatible with the corcomp clock?   

 

Is there any value in adding a DSR level compatible "CLOCK" device to TIPI?  Or would 100% of the software that ins't BASIC still fail? 

 

 

 

I'm not sure if the Myarc and CorComp Triple Tech Cards are compatible or not.

 

They would probably fail.  Tursi has PARTIALLY implemented the Triple Tech Clock in Classic 99, but it does not work with programs like, BOOT, 9640 Menu System or Remind-Me!

 

As for value, I think that all depends on the user, for me personally I use the calendar program daily, so I'm biased.



#9 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:39 AM

Oh I forgot, yes, the sidecar Corcomp Clock is 100% compatible with the CorComp Triple Tech Card.  The only difference is the addition of a 64K printer buffer and a place to plug the speech synthesizer in, getting it off the side of the console.



#10 mizapf ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:47 AM

I think most clocks are the same chip MM58274 (at least on Geneve, HFDC, BwG), so the only thing is how it is mapped into the address space. According to the manual, BwG and Corcomp Triple Tech use the same access via the DSR.



#11 AMenard ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:12 PM

With all the new stuff coming out to replace the old Ti hardware by modern equivalent, at what point it stop being a Ti setup?

 

I mean, the only thing left is the console & keyboard but how long before that is replaced by an FPGA or rPi?



#12 mizapf ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:23 PM

Good (and in my view important) question that we've been discussing for years.



#13 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:11 PM

I think the most common clock implementations were the Triple Tech, MBP/MBP 2 cards, and the Geneve.  I don't recall seeing much software that made use of the HFDC clock - it wasn't even battery-backed up without modification.  I think the PGRAM+ clock is triple tech compatible.  Clulow is MBP compatible.  BwG controller and IDE card clocks have their own unique DSR access.

 

Direct clock chip access was often preferred in assembly applications (menus, terminal programs) for speed and interrupt reasons.  MBP-style cards had no DSR; this was even a selling point at one time.

 

I doubt that adding "CLOCK" will matter for most legacy assembly programs. Still, compatible DSR output would be nice.  For what it's worth, I would not have added DSR-based "CLOCK" support to any of my programs if it weren't for Classic99's implementation.  I do find it hard to pin a value on time/date as it is more a novelty than a need.



#14 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:09 PM

 

I doubt that adding "CLOCK" will matter for most legacy assembly programs. Still, compatible DSR output would be nice.  For what it's worth, I would not have added DSR-based "CLOCK" support to any of my programs if it weren't for Classic99's implementation.  I do find it hard to pin a value on time/date as it is more a novelty than a need.

 

If you're mainly a gamer, I agree a RTC might be a little superfluous and a FinalGROM with a 32K sidecar might be all you 'need' and in that senario even a TIPI of either format might be overkill.  I can only speak for myself, and in my case a RTC is a *MUST*, as it auto-magically loads "Remind-ME!" up to the proper date.

 

Having the TIPI perfectly emulate the CorComp clock would enable others to use some functions of legacy software otherwise denied them.  

 

With all the new stuff coming out to replace the old Ti hardware by modern equivalent, at what point it stop being a Ti setup?

 

I mean, the only thing left is the console & keyboard but how long before that is replaced by an FPGA or rPi?

 

 All RTC's for the TI were third-party devices, adding that ability within TIPI would be no different, IMHO.  



#15 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:29 PM


Having the TIPI perfectly emulate the CorComp clock would enable others to use some functions of legacy software otherwise denied them.  

Challenge is there are two ways to access the CorComp clock - by name and direct hardware.  The latter is something you won't be able to emulate and is the reason some programs will not work, unless modified.



#16 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:35 PM

Well, if it has to be mapped into the address space, I'm out.

-M@

#17 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:52 PM

Well, if it has to be mapped into the address space, I'm out.
 

 

Totally understandable!  Honestly, I'd be happy with a simple stand-alone E/A 5 support program that reads the time from the Internet using the TIPI/RPi and transfers it to the CorComp clock.  



#18 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:34 PM

With all the new stuff coming out to replace the old Ti hardware by modern equivalent, at what point it stop being a Ti setup?

 

I mean, the only thing left is the console & keyboard but how long before that is replaced by an FPGA or rPi?

 

You've been around long enough to know that is a pointless debate.  Vote with your dollars... 

 

-M@



#19 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:07 AM

 

Vote with your dollars... 

 

 

Best way to vote!   It's the ultimate 'put up or shut up'.   ;-)

I got to thinking, WHY support the old tech, when we already have perfectly a good replacement in the hands of so many already?

 

It does not appear that a great many people use a old legacy RTC's in their P-Box systems.  There are after all, very few programs that utilize the clock.  Why? One reason could be at the time the TI was on the way out, and the cards were expensive, so how many people wanted to support an abandoned system when more powerful computers were being sold?

 

Jump to present day, there are probably already more TIPI's in the hands of users than all the users of all the older RTC's put together.  So, if one or two older programs could be 'updated', it would be awesome. 

 

Some potential avenues:

 

1) The 9640 Menu System

     The author is currently active in the community, if he had the time and will at some future date.

 

2) Remind-Me!

     I simply love this program and use it every day.  I have a feeling others might

     find it useful too if worked with their TIPI's.

 

3) Unknown name (possible future file manager program)

     Was it M@ that talked about a file manager for the TI?  It might be cool if it

     supported the time/date stamp that the TIPI/Rpi already uses, combined with the printing routine

     that Greg has been working with, we would all be able to print out the contents of our growing

     software libraries.

 

There are other ideas too, but they would probably be of very little use to most of you, so I'll not mention them.



#20 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:29 PM

Dunno if it's possible, or even if it's necessary, but in pondering a use for the SAMS card, I was wondering...

How about a loader that could load and RUN cartridge format BIN's directly from the TIPI?

 

The TIPI has a massive storage potential, the files are all easy to find and download and since the TIPI loads things rather quickly, the wait would only be a second or two.



#21 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:07 PM

Most cartridge images would require substantial changes to be able to run from SAMS. The code would have to be relocated in memory and the bank switching mechanism replaced.



#22 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:33 PM

Most cartridge images would require substantial changes to be able to run from SAMS. The code would have to be relocated in memory and the bank switching mechanism replaced.

 

Oh, okay.  I was thinking more along the lines of the loader program residing in SAMS memory and simulating the environment for the BIN's to work so that they would not have to be modified.  You're the expert though, definitely not me.  I was just an idea.



#23 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:53 PM

Most cartridge images would require substantial changes to be able to run from SAMS. The code would have to be relocated in memory and the bank switching mechanism replaced.

Hmm the programs would not notice if run from SAMS,  yes you need to swap the 4K pages so they are in correct spot

but no programs would crash or care after all it does not know the SAMS exists.

 

This is why RXB 2018 is going to offer this feature. .

You can load FW or other programs including games into SAMS and switch on command, not easy to do with any alternate method.

This would give you 32 actual 32K banks.

 

TIPI combined with RXB 2018  and SAMS would increase the performance of programs and future programs.

I do not see anyone else with a way to pull this off.



#24 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:07 PM

 

This is why RXB 2018 is going to offer this feature. .

 

Just to be clear, you are talking about running CARTRIDGE IMAGES, not normal EA/5 or EA/3 format programs.


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#25 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:10 PM

 

Just to be clear, you are talking about running CARTRIDGE IMAGES, not normal EA/5 or EA/3 format programs.

Most game carts have EA5 versions, which are just VDP versions of carts instead of GROM.

I am not talking about running anything else.

 

Of course what Carst are you thinking of Forth? LIsp? PCODE? TE2? 

What carts are you talking about?

 

The list of Carts of GROM ONLY format is smaller then those that are EA5 or EA3 formats.


Edited by RXB, Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:11 PM.





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