Gunstar Heroes and Sunset Riders...so good...

[DTL Presents]

Hey everyone,

 

So I have set myself the task of playing every single video game every made before the PS2 and Xbox era (optimistic I know), and in this action orientated episode, alongside the excellent Burning Fight on the Neo Geo, I replayed Gunstar Heroes and Sunset Riders that filled me with so much nostalgia I ended up playing those two titles back to back the next day.

 

What are your memories of/thoughts on Gunstar Heroes and Sunset Riders. Many gaming publications state that Gunstar Heroes is one of the greatest games of all time, do you agree?

 

[Mark Shepherd]

Gunstar Heroes I don't know why people love that game so much. It's fun. But it is just one of those constant nonstop action games. No breathing room. That is pretty much what the Genesis was known for. Crappy ports of arcades (Alterred Beast Golden Axe) or the no breathing room twitchy games. Sonic, GunStar heroes. That being said I have a Sega Genesis now. But I guess I am getting games that remind me of Super Nintendo Games! (But unfortunately weren't made for the Super Nintendo.) I'll take a game like Demon's crest any day of the week over Gunstar Heroes. But I still respect what the game is. Just not for me.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Mark Shepherd

[atarilovesyou]

"BURY ME WITH MY MONEY..."

 

Curry n Rice.

 

Epic!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I really like Gunstar Heroes but mainly for the music. I also really like the dice board game like level, even it is really just a boss rush thing before the final level. I think the graphics and action in GH is really what the Genesis was known for. Me personally, I preferred the arcade more like action that the Genesis provided and still do. It is easily my 2nd favorite gaming console next to the Atari systems.

 

Sunset Riders...wow...okay so the SNES version is obviously more arcade like and I get that. But I do actually prefer the music in the Genesis version as I feel on some of the levels it more closely mimics the arcade music more accurately. Level 2 with the train in particular. I also like how the Genesis version makes the game much longer with longer levels and the other changes. But I wouldn't really say that I prefer one over the other between the SNES and Genesis. Just depends on which I feel like playing.

 

But honestly, the crunchy arcade like FM of the Genesis is why I like to play it so much. I know I'm in the minority but I prefer TMNT Hyperstone on the Genesis over Turtles in Time on the SNES because I prefer the music and faster pace of the action.

[derFunkenstein]

Both games are something just a notch beyond excellent. Gunstar Heroes > Sunset Riders (IMO), but only in the sense that $2,000,000 > $1,000,000. Both are far more than I deserve.

[Rick Dangerous]

Recent reviews online have spiked prices of these game, especially Sunset Riders. I'd give the market a few months to chill before trying to find a coffee for a reasonable price.

[Mark Shepherd]

DTL are you the same guy who goes by Dookieshed on youtube? You kind of look like him. If that is really you on your picture. He's on this video. Travis I was wondering about that. If reviews can negatively or positively affect the market of a game. Because I played Dragon Warrior Monsters on my game boy color. I myself gave the game a horrible review on gamespot. And now I am seeing those games are just sitting around on ebay. For like two or three bucks. No one is buying them! Before they were up in the ten or eleven dollar range, and the game was compared to pokemon. So thanks for answering my question.

Dookieshed (Or DTL presents?) The Best MegaMan Game You've Never Played!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYYdRvqgVRA

[00010000]

Gunstar Heroes I don't know why people love that game so much. It's fun. But it is just one of those constant nonstop action games. No breathing room. That is pretty much what the Genesis was known for. Crappy ports of arcades (Alterred Beast Golden Axe) or the no breathing room twitchy games. Sonic, GunStar heroes. That being said I have a Sega Genesis now. But I guess I am getting games that remind me of Super Nintendo Games! (But unfortunately weren't made for the Super Nintendo.) I'll take a game like Demon's crest any day of the week over Gunstar Heroes. But I still respect what the game is. Just not for me.

 

 

 

Wow, what a completely misinformed post. The point of games like Gunstar Heroes was to push the envelope in terms of action, basically an evolved Contra if you will (appropriate given Treasure was mainly made up of ex-Konami devs). The game's got some of the best visuals of the generation and did some really cool stuff w/ level and boss design concepts that were rarely seen before or since.

 

I mean, I kinda suck at the game but from the little I've played it's actually one of the more approachable games of its type, certainly more approachable than say Alien Soldier (which sounds like my cup of tea but I'd have to take a solid afternoon to learn the kinks inside and out to get the most out of it). Unique weapon system, nice maneuverability options and some fun levels, that's quite a good deal right there for games.

 

Sounds like you like more slow-paced games that push story ahead of twitch gameplay which is cool, but do understand those type of games weren't that mainstream at the time and not everyone prefers them nowadays, either. Also at least for me a lot of them like the JRPGs take a lot of time to get up and going, which doesn't fit my lifestyle atm as I usually gravitate to pick-up-and-play games that don't need to take a few hours to get interesting. Though that said, obviously not every JRPG is like that, just like how not every twitch-style action game is some mindless button masher or w/e.

 

You really aught to expand your looking into the lesser-known MegaDrive games b/c there's a lot of neat surprises on the system, just like w/ SNES. I like both systems a lot and they're among my favorites in general, but MegaDrive seems to get a bad rep for being the "Sonic and arcade ports" machine when there's lots of original content on it too in a lot of different genres, even some strong micros/PC ports too. But I blame the lazy retro gaming Youtubers and streamers for starting that misconception (and well SEGA just being lazy when it came to most of those Genesis collections in general).

[spacecadet]

Recent reviews online have spiked prices of these game, especially Sunset Riders. I'd give the market a few months to chill before trying to find a coffee for a reasonable price.

 

Gunstar Heroes was always an expensive game. It's not all that common (though not really rare either) and it's one of Treasure's first big games. It defined their early aesthetic, but you can see a lot of the same influences in their later games too. Pretty much *all* their games (the best ones, anyway) are about non-stop action.

 

For pretty much as long as I've been on Ebay, it's been selling for somewhere between $50 and $100. It goes up or down a little sometimes but it seems about in the middle right now, price-wise. I can't remember what I paid for mine; probably somewhere in the $50 neighborhood, but that was at one of the low ebbs about 10 years ago.

[insertclevernamehere]

Repros around $10 are available for both those games.

[spacecadet]

Repros around $10 are available for both those games.

 

And ROMs are available for free. I assume if someone's talking about the price of buying a commercial game, it's because they want the real thing.

[mbd30]

Gunstar Heroes I don't know why people love that game so much. It's fun. But it is just one of those constant nonstop action games. No breathing room. That is pretty much what the Genesis was known for. Crappy ports of arcades (Alterred Beast Golden Axe) or the no breathing room twitchy games. Sonic, GunStar heroes. That being said I have a Sega Genesis now. But I guess I am getting games that remind me of Super Nintendo Games! (But unfortunately weren't made for the Super Nintendo.) I'll take a game like Demon's crest any day of the week over Gunstar Heroes. But I still respect what the game is. Just not for me.

 

 

 

Golden Axe on the Genesis crappy???? STFU.

[insertclevernamehere]

And ROMs are available for free. I assume if someone's talking about the price of buying a commercial game, it's because they want the real thing.

And some people want a physical cartridge that they can plug in. They can also get a universal game case, print the inlay card off from thecoverproject.net and print the manual off from a pdf. That way, they get a beautiful, new, physical copy of the game that will also look good on their shelf and still cost a fraction of some of the original games. If people didn't want that then it wouldn't exist.

[spacecadet]

And some people want a physical cartridge that they can plug in. They can also get a universal game case, print the inlay card off from thecoverproject.net and print the manual off from a pdf. That way, they get a beautiful, new, physical copy of the game that will also look good on their shelf and still cost a fraction of some of the original games. If people didn't want that then it wouldn't exist.

 

I'm not sure if you're deliberately ignoring the point or just missing it. As was pointed out, actual copies of these games are not cheap. If someone is talking about the price of actual games, that's what they want. Everybody here knows that there are plenty of cheap or even free ways to play games. If that's what someone wanted, they wouldn't be talking about cost in the first place.

[insertclevernamehere]

Maybe they know, maybe they don't. There's new people to these forums all the time, still learning. You don't have to be such a knob about someone trying to be helpful. Repros are for all intents and purposes, "the actual game". Plug them in and they play the game. They don't play a different game. They are not just empty, plastic shells.

[00010000]

 

Golden Axe on the Genesis crappy???? STFU.

 

They really should have done a port of Death Adder to Genesis. Or 32X maybe. Probably the best in the series. Soooo good (need to play it again)

[Mark Shepherd]

 

You really aught to expand your looking into the lesser-known MegaDrive games b/c there's a lot of neat surprises on the system, just like w/ SNES. I like both systems a lot and they're among my favorites in general, but MegaDrive seems to get a bad rep for being the "Sonic and arcade ports" machine when there's lots of original content on it too in a lot of different genres, even some strong micros/PC ports too. But I blame the lazy retro gaming Youtubers and streamers for starting that misconception (and well SEGA just being lazy when it came to most of those Genesis collections in general).

 

Actually just got my sega genesis. Going to try to nostalgia game (or just plain game again). I think Sega owes some credit to Konami. Maybe a ton of credit. Konami seemed like it gave Sega a second life and huge second boost during those bit wars. I think Konami should be credited with extending the life of the Genesis more than Sega CD or the 32X. And perhaps even those add-ons hurt the Sega. When you hear the golden sounding Konami logo start up at the title screen it is inseparable from the supposed superior Super Nintendo. And Konami games that had equivalents on the Super Nintendo were just as good and depending on your preference better.

 

So yeah. I could make a thread like this.

Gunstar Heroes and Contra Hard Corps.. So good..

Gunstar Heroes and Turtles the Hyperstone Heist.. So good..

Gunstar Heroes and Rocket Knight adventures.. So good..

Gunstar Heroes and Castlevania bloodlines.. So good.. (notice a theme?)

 

But eh, Gunstar Heroes and Flink.. So good?? Umm.. Gunstar Heroes and Toe Jam and Earl... So good. hmm. Ok games. I think there is a little of a coverup from Genesis owners as to how much Konami really bailed the Genesis out. But then again on another note. What if Konami made Suikoden for the Sega CD. And that would have totally blown away Nintendo. Nintendo anything. It would be like what is Nintendo? Or Jimmy Kimmel doing a Karl Malone skit, "Karl Malone..What does Karl Malone say about Nintendo? Karl Malone say that Nintendo don't have Suikoden therefore Nintendo sucks!" Well that didn't happen. Basically it was a neverending Muhammad Ali vs Frasier match. To a draw. MBD you have a good heart. I am guessing by Golden Axe you mean Golden Axe 2? The first golden axe game. I mean there are alternatives like Knights of the Round. I am boned out by both Sega and Super Nintendo neither quite gave me the knights and dragons style beat em up that I wanted. Batman returns was closest.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I actually like Golden Axe 2 more than the first game. yeap...I went there. The animations, different scenery, etc I just enjoy it more than the original. To me the original has the music in MONO...!!! MONO!! and the animations seem more stiff than they needed to be.

 

Konami did make some excellent games on the Genesis, but then I also feel that most of Sega's 1st party releases were quite excellent and especially enjoy most of the Psygnosis tiles that were released. You mentioned Flink...and I think that game is wonderful! It is difficult for a platformer in many areas, but to graphics and overall style it so unique and just excellent.

[+wongojack]

 

What are your memories of/thoughts on Gunstar Heroes and Sunset Riders. Many gaming publications state that Gunstar Heroes is one of the greatest games of all time, do you agree?

 

 

 

I had never heard of either of these games until after like 2009 or so. I first discovered the arcade version of Sunset Riders as a game suggested for being a good one to play on a MAME cabinet with friends.

 

While my gaming tastes are typically a bit "older" than these, I do appreciate discovering something that others find appealing. However, I can't really say that either of these games have ever really done anything to capture my lasting attention. It could be that I just haven't given them much of a chance, but I'd say that there is no way they fit into a category of "one of the greatest of all time." Maybe this is my limited experience with the genre talking, but I find it hard to get into almost any individual game of this genre while looking backwards in time. There were so many incremental steps forward that it is really difficult to pick them apart and appreciate the little moves X years later. On a list of greatest games of all time, I think there is MAYBE room for a single "run to the right and shoot stuff with guns" game. (And most people will probably pick one that rhymes with Petal Plug)

 

I also think this genre gets a lot of high profile and high quality modern attention. Cuphead is similar to these right? That game alone might push both of these out of the way in a "best of all time" list for me.

[00010000]

 

Actually just got my sega genesis. Going to try to nostalgia game (or just plain game again). I think Sega owes some credit to Konami. Maybe a ton of credit. Konami seemed like it gave Sega a second life and huge second boost during those bit wars. I think Konami should be credited with extending the life of the Genesis more than Sega CD or the 32X. And perhaps even those add-ons hurt the Sega. When you hear the golden sounding Konami logo start up at the title screen it is inseparable from the supposed superior Super Nintendo. And Konami games that had equivalents on the Super Nintendo were just as good and depending on your preference better.

 

So yeah. I could make a thread like this.

Gunstar Heroes and Contra Hard Corps.. So good..

Gunstar Heroes and Turtles the Hyperstone Heist.. So good..

Gunstar Heroes and Rocket Knight adventures.. So good..

Gunstar Heroes and Castlevania bloodlines.. So good.. (notice a theme?)

 

But eh, Gunstar Heroes and Flink.. So good?? Umm.. Gunstar Heroes and Toe Jam and Earl... So good. hmm. Ok games. I think there is a little of a coverup from Genesis owners as to how much Konami really bailed the Genesis out. But then again on another note. What if Konami made Suikoden for the Sega CD. And that would have totally blown away Nintendo. Nintendo anything. It would be like what is Nintendo? Or Jimmy Kimmel doing a Karl Malone skit, "Karl Malone..What does Karl Malone say about Nintendo? Karl Malone say that Nintendo don't have Suikoden therefore Nintendo sucks!" Well that didn't happen. Basically it was a neverending Muhammad Ali vs Frasier match. To a draw. MBD you have a good heart. I am guessing by Golden Axe you mean Golden Axe 2? The first golden axe game. I mean there are alternatives like Knights of the Round. I am boned out by both Sega and Super Nintendo neither quite gave me the knights and dragons style beat em up that I wanted. Batman returns was closest.

 

You sound something of a Konami fanboy which, hey, that's cool I suppose, but you're giving them a little TOO much lip service here xD. They were a nice developer for Sega platforms at the time but they DEFINITELY didn't "bail out" the MegaDrive during that period. It's as if you've forgotten the original Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic 2 were the big anchors for the platform blowing up back then. i'm sure Sega appreciated Konami, but they weren't seen as a vital MegaDrive dev/pub and I think when you take off the bias/nostalgia glasses and look at things more analytically, they got exactly the props and respect they deserved for the level of output to the system.

 

I would actually argue that Capcom was easily the bigger of the two on the system (and Sega systems as a whole); Champion Edition was a bigger boost for MegaDrive than almost any of the Konami games, but that was just SF2 in general at the time. They even managed to produce a better version of Super for MegaDrive over the SNES version which both people didn't think was possible, and showed how early an effort Champion Edition was by comparison.

 

Thinking Konami should get the big credit for extending the Genesis lifeline is just a bit hilarious; like I said, they put out some good games. Great games, even. But both in terms of sales and overall market impact there were bigger hits from other systems on Genesis, and at least comparable to Konami on CD (Snatcher was a fantastic port, but Lunar 1 + 2 and Shining CD were arguably right up there in quality). Besides, it sometimes felt like Konami would put their B teams on Genesis projects and their A teams on Super Nintendo projects. Not all the time, but *sometimes* it felt that way. I think efforts like SOTN's shitty (relative to PS1) port to Saturn later on kind of reinforces that feeling, even if it's not 100% warranted.

 

As for CD and 32X, well you'd have to try pretty hard to prove to me CD hurt the Genesis. Because if it were such an anchor, don't you think...Genesis sales would've suffered? Yet from '92 to late '94 it maintained majority marketshare in NA and Europe. The CD was a non-starter in Japan but so was the MegaDrive so...eh :/. I'm not sure if TecToy ever brought the CD to Brazil but if they did that obviously had no negative repercussions on MegaDrive in that market, either. So I'm in the camp that CD actually wasn't a big harm to Genesis/MegaDrive at all, altho SoA's marketing for it (using all those FMV games) was trashy. A lot of the hate for CD these days comes from ignorance and post-market blues when people were getting over Sega exiting the market w/ Dreamcast and trying to blame past systems. CD was an easy target, if not a correct one.

 

There's no coverup from Genesis owners regarding Konami; you may personally not enjoy stuff like Gunstar and T&E that much, but to others they're legit among some of their favorite games. It's probably EASIER to insinuate they are using those games as cover-ups because they are lesser-known, but a game's popularity (or lack thereof) in its brand name isn't always a measure of its quality. For me something like Gunstar is more enjoyable than the SNES and Genesis Contra games, and there's a lot to appreciate there with what Treasure did to make the console sing.

 

EXTRA: No, Death Adder isn't Golden Axe 2 or 3. It was an arcade release that never got a home port. System 32 hardware.

[00010000]

 

I had never heard of either of these games until after like 2009 or so. I first discovered the arcade version of Sunset Riders as a game suggested for being a good one to play on a MAME cabinet with friends.

 

While my gaming tastes are typically a bit "older" than these, I do appreciate discovering something that others find appealing. However, I can't really say that either of these games have ever really done anything to capture my lasting attention. It could be that I just haven't given them much of a chance, but I'd say that there is no way they fit into a category of "one of the greatest of all time." Maybe this is my limited experience with the genre talking, but I find it hard to get into almost any individual game of this genre while looking backwards in time. There were so many incremental steps forward that it is really difficult to pick them apart and appreciate the little moves X years later. On a list of greatest games of all time, I think there is MAYBE room a single "run to the right and shoot stuff with guns" game. (And most people will probably pick one that rhymes with Petal Plug)

 

I also think this genre gets a lot of high profile and high quality modern attention. Cuphead is similar to these right? That game alone might push both of these out of the way in a "best of all time" list for me.

 

No, Cuphead isn't really similar to them; it's a boss-rush game like Alien Soldier (MegaDrive, '95, developer Treasure), the stages aren't too involving and meant more as little grounds to get over to get to the boss.

[Mark Shepherd]

 

You sound something of a Konami fanboy which, hey, that's cool I suppose, but you're giving them a little TOO much lip service here xD. They were a nice developer for Sega platforms at the time but they DEFINITELY didn't "bail out" the MegaDrive during that period. It's as if you've forgotten the original Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic 2 were the big anchors for the platform blowing up back then. i'm sure Sega appreciated Konami, but they weren't seen as a vital MegaDrive dev/pub and I think when you take off the bias/nostalgia glasses and look at things more analytically, they got exactly the props and respect they deserved for the level of output to the system.

 

I would actually argue that Capcom was easily the bigger of the two on the system (and Sega systems as a whole); Champion Edition was a bigger boost for MegaDrive than almost any of the Konami games, but that was just SF2 in general at the time. They even managed to produce a better version of Super for MegaDrive over the SNES version which both people didn't think was possible, and showed how early an effort Champion Edition was by comparison.

 

Thinking Konami should get the big credit for extending the Genesis lifeline is just a bit hilarious; like I said, they put out some good games. Great games, even. But both in terms of sales and overall market impact there were bigger hits from other systems on Genesis, and at least comparable to Konami on CD (Snatcher was a fantastic port, but Lunar 1 + 2 and Shining CD were arguably right up there in quality). Besides, it sometimes felt like Konami would put their B teams on Genesis projects and their A teams on Super Nintendo projects. Not all the time, but *sometimes* it felt that way. I think efforts like SOTN's shitty (relative to PS1) port to Saturn later on kind of reinforces that feeling, even if it's not 100% warranted.

 

I think of the Sega Genesis as like a experimental console. The Sega Saturn in my opinion was the best video game console ever created. People complain about load times. I thought that there were no loads time on the Saturn. But there goes my beef again with Nintendo. Basically goading Sony into the competition and then that was it. I felt like the Sega Saturn would have been the main console for pretty much any game. Fast games. Slow games. RPGS. 3D. 2D sidescrollers. Retro games. Rerelease games. If no playstation I think that the Sega Saturn would have even made the company Square Enix obsolete and squashed them. Or begging to let them in. Instead of now it's the other way around, First party developers are begging for Square Enix to come to them. Was SOTN released on the Saturn?? I didn't know that. Was in English? Well people kind of over exaggerate how Sega CD and 32 were screwed up. They weren't like the Virtual Boy. Somehow Nintendo was allowed to get away with the screw ups and stay in business. But Sega, a few screw ups (if you even want to call them screw ups) and that was that.

The street fighter games for the SNES and the Genesis were pretty much a joke by the time you got to the Saturn and Playstation. I mean the whole point is you want to play an arcade game right?

Well we all have our personal choices. When someone says Capcom you think megaman.

[Mark Shepherd]

00010000 I want to kind of argue with you about the sales. Sales and sales numbers are fickle. Sega was definitely the best at hitting the Stupid market and then selling a boatload of those games. I loved Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic the Hedgehog is getting like five bucks on Ebay. Konami genesis games are at the bottom around 30 bucks and going all the way up to 200. Sometimes even used. Like a Rolls Royce the Konami games are going up in value! But things like depreciation and time and age that basically applies to all genesis games except for the Konami games. The Stupid gamers have gotten smarter and they know what the quality is (After you play the game. And do the research.) When you are hoodwinked by sales marketing, naked in your face yelling at you promotional ads, and even peer pressure in school you get those games. But after that hoopla dies down you stop playing them.

[00010000]

I think of the Sega Genesis as like a experimental console. The Sega Saturn in my opinion was the best video game console ever created. People complain about load times. I thought that there were no loads time on the Saturn. But there goes my beef again with Nintendo. Basically goading Sony into the competition and then that was it. I felt like the Sega Saturn would have been the main console for pretty much any game. Fast games. Slow games. RPGS. 3D. 2D sidescrollers. Retro games. Rerelease games. If no playstation I think that the Sega Saturn would have even made the company Square Enix obsolete and squashed them. Or begging to let them in. Instead of now it's the other way around, First party developers are begging for Square Enix to come to them. Was SOTN released on the Saturn?? I didn't know that. Was in English? Well people kind of over exaggerate how Sega CD and 32 were screwed up. They weren't like the Virtual Boy. Somehow Nintendo was allowed to get away with the screw ups and stay in business. But Sega, a few screw ups (if you even want to call them screw ups) and that was that.

The street fighter games for the SNES and the Genesis were pretty much a joke by the time you got to the Saturn and Playstation. I mean the whole point is you want to play an arcade game right?

Well we all have our personal choices. When someone says Capcom you think megaman.

 

I'd say 32X was definitely a bigger blow than Virtual Boy; Nintendo killed the Virtual Boy before it could do any significant damage to them. OTOH, Sega actively pushed the 32X in America and Europe to the point where there was SOME investment, and then yanked the rug right as it seemed things were getting somewhere, because Saturn was right around the corner. You're going to feel more upset when you actually put some time into something and THEN it goes kaput, vs. never even giving it the time of day to begin with. Nintendo basically treated Virtual Boy as an afterthought the way Sega treated 32X in Japan.

 

But yeah, it's a bit funny why that isn't held against Nintendo as much. If I had to guess it's b/c at that time they still had the N64 and especially Gameboy as positives; even when Gamecube was coming in last they had the GBA to offset that. Wii U? They had the 3DS to offset. So their fanbase never felt like they were *completely* out of options to find satisfaction. OTOH when 32X was coming out people ALREADY KNEW Saturn was on the way AND Genesis was starting to slow down a bit. When Saturn was out, people in the West didn't really have arcades to offset that b/c arcades were going through a recession. If arcades were bigger at that time I think a lot of the flack Sega got for Saturn would've been mitigated b/c their arcade output was world-class.

 

Then Sega took the Saturn off the market and was effectively silent in the big mainstream gaming market in the West for a FULL YEAR; they had NOTHING for the West between May '98 and Sept. '99, when Dreamcast launched. That made things almost impossible for Dreamcast no matter how big the launch was, imho.

 

So I think that's the main difference there btwn Nintendo and Sega and why their respective blunders were met the way they did; Nintendo even made other screw-ups like the 64DD but they, again, killed that before it could do any major damage. They were smart at mitigating damage to their brand in killing products that could've caused issues, before they did. Sega didn't really do that; in fact they killed the Genesis in the West WAY before they should've, just to push Saturn harder when people were already showing hesitation there b/c of the 32X stuff and PlayStation was building hype. And I do stand by the idea that 32X was the add-on that should've been cancelled outright; Sega CD actually brought value to the ecosystem and has a great library of games; 32X didn't really bring much good to the Genesis and its library is (overall) less impressive than CD's. Plus it was just poorly timed overall.

 

Actually, I think 32X was too late and CD was too early; if Sega had held off on CD until 1993 and added the 32X's features to CD, and offered it as both an add-on and an all-in-one along w/ Genesis integration, that potentially could have gone over VERY well. It would've bought them time to delay Saturn until '95 in Japan ('96 in the West) and retool some of its hardware and also have better SDK right out of the gate. While it maybe would've still ultimately lost out to PS1, it could've globally beaten N64 in that scenario, as by then there wouldn't of been a Daytona debacle, ports like Sega Rally could've had more content added, and maybe Sonic Xtreme would've been a reality. Plus you'd still have gotten almost all of the games that essentially came out anyway.

 

Of course, in that kind of timeline you'd still have companies like Square and Namco going w/ PS1 (for the most part), but essentially Sega and Nintendo's fortunes would've been reversed, least in the home console side. Then again, there's no telling if Nintendo would've pushed to do stuff like a true Pokemon RPG on N64 or releasing the original Mother 3 as an N64 cart. It certainly would've spiced up the N64 library even more vs. what we got (which as a whole, I DO like a lot of its library, but PS1 and Saturn's libraries are more to my gaming tastes).

 

00010000 I want to kind of argue with you about the sales. Sales and sales numbers are fickle. Sega was definitely the best at hitting the Stupid market and then selling a boatload of those games. I loved Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic the Hedgehog is getting like five bucks on Ebay. Konami genesis games are at the bottom around 30 bucks and going all the way up to 200. Sometimes even used. Like a Rolls Royce the Konami games are going up in value! But things like depreciation and time and age that basically applies to all genesis games except for the Konami games. The Stupid gamers have gotten smarter and they know what the quality is (After you play the game. And do the research.) When you are hoodwinked by sales marketing, naked in your face yelling at you promotional ads, and even peer pressure in school you get those games. But after that hoopla dies down you stop playing them.

 

Some of this doesn't make sense to me. The reason prices for those Konami games are high is b/c of rarity in the physical copies themselves, combined with the fact those games aren't as saturated in popularity as Sonic is, and arguably, the fanbase for them being more hardcore. I don't think it honestly has much to do with the *quality*, tho like I said before, Konami made some very good games on MegaDrive/Genesis and Sega CD. You can find actual BAD games like Action 52 carts going for like $200 on eBAY right now. The NES version's even more expensive, b/c that one iirc was never officially released. So not all the time does a game's collector value actually indicate its quality.

 

I'd also argue that people aren't playing non-Konami Genesis games anymore because...I literally see Youtubers and Twitch streamers play those games everyday. Sonic, Shining, Ecco, Streets of Rage, Comix Zone, Ristar, Pulstar, Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, ThunderForce etc. Those same games and others being regularly talked about in gaming circles over the internet too, just like the Konami stuff (in some cases, actually more than the Konami stuff). What you're saying only really applies to the licensed sports games of that period, but the same can be said of licensed sports games for EVERY old system so no reason to single out the Genesis there :/.

[mbd30]

 

Some of this doesn't make sense to me. The reason prices for those Konami games are high is b/c of rarity in the physical copies themselves, combined with the fact those games aren't as saturated in popularity as Sonic is, and arguably, the fanbase for them being more hardcore. I don't think it honestly has much to do with the *quality*, tho like I said before, Konami made some very good games on MegaDrive/Genesis and Sega CD. You can find actual BAD games like Action 52 carts going for like $200 on eBAY right now. The NES version's even more expensive, b/c that one iirc was never officially released. So not all the time does a game's collector value actually indicate its quality.

 

 

 

You're being kind. None of it makes sense to me.

 

NES owners must be ditching the popular titles such as Super Mario Bros., Zelda and Punch-Out for the fine wine of Menace Beach, Kid Klown in Night Mayor World and Wacky Races because the latter are way pricier. Not knocking Konami on the Genesis. Of course it's good stuff and that is partially why those games are going up in price. But that was an awful argument.

Edited August 23, 2018 by mbd30