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Graphics glitches on 800xl games. Normal?


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#1 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:06 AM

Hi again.. Now that I've got my 800xl working (presumably) I am spending today playing games on my Ultimate cart. I am noticing graphics glitches, and I don't know what could be causing it. Could it be the Antic chip needs replacing? Or could this be caused by the ultimate cart or even a bad SD card? I have already come across game images that crash and freeze up, while others show strange artifacts on the screen. Not sure what to do...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:42 PM

try different files and copies, and from other devices doing different disk, files etc..

 

if you find it works with others things but occurs with your ult cart, time to make sure fingers are clean as well as connector... then swap sd for another speed/brand see what you can... then post back so people will have idea/cues as to what's going on



#3 xrbrevin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:25 PM

if possible, try a different power supply. i suffered freezes, crackling audio and some graphic errors and it turned out to be the caused by the PSU



#4 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:31 PM

if possible, try a different power supply. i suffered freezes, crackling audio and some graphic errors and it turned out to be the caused by the PSU

 

I am using a brand new rebuildable power supply from Best Electronics.



#5 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:33 PM

I tried Dark Chambers on a different SD card, and I still see the same graphics glitches... So I just downloaded a new copy from the web as a .bin file and I am using the Bin2Car from Robin Edwards. But how do I know which type to pick? Maybe I converted these all wrong in the first place. o_O

 

rom2car.png

 

 

EDIT: I chose to convert as XEGS (that first option in the list) and the game plays but I still see the glitches.

 

 


Edited by xucaen, Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:51 PM.


#6 xrbrevin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:00 PM

can you swap the chips to/from another computer?



#7 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:35 PM

can you swap the chips to/from another computer?


This is the only one I have. Just bought it a few weeks ago. I'm a totall newb.

#8 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:10 PM

in order to diagnose this, we need to try other versions of the programs loaded from other devices.... we don't know if it the cartridge,,,, the sd card or anything else for that matter....  It may turn out to be the SD speed or type, it could be the cartridge, have you tried using any other cartridges? Did you load these using a disk drive etc..

 

I you simply add car headers to the same thing in the sd card and in the same ultimate cart... you really aren't eliminating much.....

 

have you cleaned the ult carts pcb fingers? is the connector in the computer clean and undamaged?

 

Once we are sure it's none of the other things then we open the computer and clean and reseat chips etc...



#9 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:33 PM

I had it opened when I replaced the 4 chips. I made sure all other chips where "seated" . The best I can do right now is download from other sources. What I have determined is it's not a corrupted source. I posted a "wanted" ad here in AA for an original Dark Chambers cart. Once I have that I can determine if it is the Ultimate/sd or the 800xl. Hopefully someone here can answer my ad.



#10 shoestring OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:55 PM

Don't some games just glitch on all systems ?

 

Like the artifacts underneath the copyright text in Dropzone on the Atari version. I'm not 100% sure if that's a glitch but it does look unusual and I don't see it in the c64 version.



#11 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:56 AM

Don't some games just glitch on all systems ?
 


No, they don’t. Glitches are usually a symptom of something else: bad power supply or voltage regulators, ANTIC or GTIA chips dying, solder flakes under a socket due to sloppy work on the board, etc.

Sure, there are some clumsy copy protection cracks and translations from cart to disk or whatever, but by and large graphical issues shouldn’t exist.

#12 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:52 AM

I tested Dark Chambers on my Ultimate cart here, no issues.



#13 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:04 PM

I tested Dark Chambers on my Ultimate cart here, no issues.

 

 

Any chance you can zip your copy of Dark Chambers and attach it here? That would at least let me rule out that I got corrupted rom images.

 

Also, if anyone has a Dark Chambers cart, I posted a wanted in the marketplace forum.

 

cheers



#14 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:10 PM

Sure, here you go.

 

Attached File  Dark Chambers.rom   64KB   19 downloads



#15 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:33 PM

Since I have no Dark Chymbers cart to test, I decided to test the 3 carts I do have. I found a weird glitch in Pac Man. Sometimes the ghosts will get stuck and move through the maze. I was able to replicate the glitching on both the original cart and the Ultimate cart. I think at this point we can all safely assume something else is wrong with my 800xl. The question is... what? Is this an Antic issue or a GTIA issue or a CPU issue? I just need to know what to replace to I can order the parts. 

 

 



#16 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:40 PM

Sure, here you go.

 

attachicon.gifDark Chambers.rom

 

 

Thanks, and yes I do see the same glitches as before. I think combined with the issues I am seeing on the Pacman cart, something else needs to be replaced on my 800xl.

 

cheers!



#17 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:45 PM

CPU, timings, memory.. check in that order..

 

grab one of the memory testers, load up and wait for your glitches to appears for a bit... then mem test... then salt.

 

I'd make sure no solder joints went cold, none of the other solder problems like bridges and breaks in traces or connectors and sockets etc...


Edited by _The Doctor__, Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:49 PM.


#18 Sugarland OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:49 PM

 

I am using a brand new rebuildable power supply from Best Electronics.

 

If your cpu/ram/etc tests come up empty then I think trying a different power supply is a good idea. I'd check the voltage. Should be no more than 5.15v in my opinion.  Do you have soldering tools? Making a molex to DIN connector works well.  Re: RAM - are any of your RAM chips hotter than the others?


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#19 SS ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:58 PM

 
If your cpu/ram/etc tests come up empty then I think trying a different power supply is a good idea. I'd check the voltage.

Re: RAM - are any of your RAM chips hotter than the others?


I like this idea but I am trying to remember if xucaen has already tried a new power supply or not.

#20 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:07 PM

 

If your cpu/ram/etc tests come up empty then I think trying a different power supply is a good idea. I'd check the voltage. Should be no more than 5.15v in my opinion.  Do you have soldering tools? Making a molex to DIN connector works well.  Re: RAM - are any of your RAM chips hotter than the others?

 

 

I like this idea but I am trying to remember if xucaen has already tried a new power supply or not.

 

Unfortunately, he has. He's got a rebuildable PSU from Best Electronics: 

 

 

I am using a brand new rebuildable power supply from Best Electronics.

 

I mean, it's possible that PSU is bad, but given Brad's history in the Atari biz, that's very unlikely. My first guess based on tracking down glitches like this in the past would be a bad GTIA or ANTIC, next is CPU, last is a tossup between a bad PIA, MMU or DRAM.  That's presuming there's not some conductive schmutz on the board from clumsy rework, as mentioned in my earlier post. 



#21 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:44 PM

I like this idea but I am trying to remember if xucaen has already tried a new power supply or not.

 

 

Indeed, I bought a new power supply from Best.

http://atariage.com/...rors/?p=4071044



#22 xucaen OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:49 PM

 

I mean, it's possible that PSU is bad, but given Brad's history in the Atari biz, that's very unlikely. My first guess based on tracking down glitches like this in the past would be a bad GTIA or ANTIC, next is CPU, last is a tossup between a bad PIA, MMU or DRAM.  That's presuming there's not some conductive schmutz on the board from clumsy rework, as mentioned in my earlier post. 

 

This week I will take it apart and examine the underside of the board. I've ordered a magnifier light headset for the task.  ;-)

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

I have a Weller soldering iron too, so if I see any broken solder joints I can *try* to reflow the solder. :)



#23 shoestring OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:56 AM

Have you actually checked the IC sockets themselves ?

 

The chip legs & metal contacts inside the IC socket can tarnish and lose their springiness over time. This combination and the fact that they are only single wipe exacerbates the problem. 



#24 xrbrevin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:55 AM

good luck, hope you find the gremlin in the system. a valuable asset to your arsenal is tenacity! so dont give up

try to get one of these to run it may help whittle it down:

 

 

Attached Files



#25 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:09 AM

I would try running SysInfo.  It has a few tests for the GTIA.  It was useful when I was diagnosing a problem with my PAL 1088XEL.

 

Attached File  SysInfo v2.24 (2014-08-01)(Kokoszkiewicz, Konrad M.)(PL)(en).atr   90.02KB   18 downloads






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