+xucaen Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Hi again.. Now that I've got my 800xl working (presumably) I am spending today playing games on my Ultimate cart. I am noticing graphics glitches, and I don't know what could be causing it. Could it be the Antic chip needs replacing? Or could this be caused by the ultimate cart or even a bad SD card? I have already come across game images that crash and freeze up, while others show strange artifacts on the screen. Not sure what to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 try different files and copies, and from other devices doing different disk, files etc.. if you find it works with others things but occurs with your ult cart, time to make sure fingers are clean as well as connector... then swap sd for another speed/brand see what you can... then post back so people will have idea/cues as to what's going on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 if possible, try a different power supply. i suffered freezes, crackling audio and some graphic errors and it turned out to be the caused by the PSU 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 if possible, try a different power supply. i suffered freezes, crackling audio and some graphic errors and it turned out to be the caused by the PSU I am using a brand new rebuildable power supply from Best Electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) I tried Dark Chambers on a different SD card, and I still see the same graphics glitches... So I just downloaded a new copy from the web as a .bin file and I am using the Bin2Car from Robin Edwards. But how do I know which type to pick? Maybe I converted these all wrong in the first place. o_O EDIT: I chose to convert as XEGS (that first option in the list) and the game plays but I still see the glitches. Edited August 12, 2018 by xucaen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 can you swap the chips to/from another computer? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 can you swap the chips to/from another computer? This is the only one I have. Just bought it a few weeks ago. I'm a totall newb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 in order to diagnose this, we need to try other versions of the programs loaded from other devices.... we don't know if it the cartridge,,,, the sd card or anything else for that matter.... It may turn out to be the SD speed or type, it could be the cartridge, have you tried using any other cartridges? Did you load these using a disk drive etc.. I you simply add car headers to the same thing in the sd card and in the same ultimate cart... you really aren't eliminating much..... have you cleaned the ult carts pcb fingers? is the connector in the computer clean and undamaged? Once we are sure it's none of the other things then we open the computer and clean and reseat chips etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 I had it opened when I replaced the 4 chips. I made sure all other chips where "seated" . The best I can do right now is download from other sources. What I have determined is it's not a corrupted source. I posted a "wanted" ad here in AA for an original Dark Chambers cart. Once I have that I can determine if it is the Ultimate/sd or the 800xl. Hopefully someone here can answer my ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Don't some games just glitch on all systems ? Like the artifacts underneath the copyright text in Dropzone on the Atari version. I'm not 100% sure if that's a glitch but it does look unusual and I don't see it in the c64 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Don't some games just glitch on all systems ? No, they don’t. Glitches are usually a symptom of something else: bad power supply or voltage regulators, ANTIC or GTIA chips dying, solder flakes under a socket due to sloppy work on the board, etc. Sure, there are some clumsy copy protection cracks and translations from cart to disk or whatever, but by and large graphical issues shouldn’t exist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 I tested Dark Chambers on my Ultimate cart here, no issues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 I tested Dark Chambers on my Ultimate cart here, no issues. Any chance you can zip your copy of Dark Chambers and attach it here? That would at least let me rule out that I got corrupted rom images. Also, if anyone has a Dark Chambers cart, I posted a wanted in the marketplace forum. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Sure, here you go. Dark Chambers.rom 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Since I have no Dark Chymbers cart to test, I decided to test the 3 carts I do have. I found a weird glitch in Pac Man. Sometimes the ghosts will get stuck and move through the maze. I was able to replicate the glitching on both the original cart and the Ultimate cart. I think at this point we can all safely assume something else is wrong with my 800xl. The question is... what? Is this an Antic issue or a GTIA issue or a CPU issue? I just need to know what to replace to I can order the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Sure, here you go. Dark Chambers.rom Thanks, and yes I do see the same glitches as before. I think combined with the issues I am seeing on the Pacman cart, something else needs to be replaced on my 800xl. cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) CPU, timings, memory.. check in that order.. grab one of the memory testers, load up and wait for your glitches to appears for a bit... then mem test... then salt. I'd make sure no solder joints went cold, none of the other solder problems like bridges and breaks in traces or connectors and sockets etc... Edited August 13, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarland Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 I am using a brand new rebuildable power supply from Best Electronics. If your cpu/ram/etc tests come up empty then I think trying a different power supply is a good idea. I'd check the voltage. Should be no more than 5.15v in my opinion. Do you have soldering tools? Making a molex to DIN connector works well. Re: RAM - are any of your RAM chips hotter than the others? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 If your cpu/ram/etc tests come up empty then I think trying a different power supply is a good idea. I'd check the voltage. Re: RAM - are any of your RAM chips hotter than the others? I like this idea but I am trying to remember if xucaen has already tried a new power supply or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 If your cpu/ram/etc tests come up empty then I think trying a different power supply is a good idea. I'd check the voltage. Should be no more than 5.15v in my opinion. Do you have soldering tools? Making a molex to DIN connector works well. Re: RAM - are any of your RAM chips hotter than the others? I like this idea but I am trying to remember if xucaen has already tried a new power supply or not. Unfortunately, he has. He's got a rebuildable PSU from Best Electronics: I am using a brand new rebuildable power supply from Best Electronics. I mean, it's possible that PSU is bad, but given Brad's history in the Atari biz, that's very unlikely. My first guess based on tracking down glitches like this in the past would be a bad GTIA or ANTIC, next is CPU, last is a tossup between a bad PIA, MMU or DRAM. That's presuming there's not some conductive schmutz on the board from clumsy rework, as mentioned in my earlier post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 I like this idea but I am trying to remember if xucaen has already tried a new power supply or not. Indeed, I bought a new power supply from Best. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/280756-super-stand-alone-system-test-shows-errors/?p=4071044 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 I mean, it's possible that PSU is bad, but given Brad's history in the Atari biz, that's very unlikely. My first guess based on tracking down glitches like this in the past would be a bad GTIA or ANTIC, next is CPU, last is a tossup between a bad PIA, MMU or DRAM. That's presuming there's not some conductive schmutz on the board from clumsy rework, as mentioned in my earlier post. This week I will take it apart and examine the underside of the board. I've ordered a magnifier light headset for the task. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003UCODIA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I have a Weller soldering iron too, so if I see any broken solder joints I can *try* to reflow the solder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Have you actually checked the IC sockets themselves ? The chip legs & metal contacts inside the IC socket can tarnish and lose their springiness over time. This combination and the fact that they are only single wipe exacerbates the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 good luck, hope you find the gremlin in the system. a valuable asset to your arsenal is tenacity! so dont give up try to get one of these to run it may help whittle it down: CPS SuperSALT (1983)(Atari)h Irata.rom Super SALT SE.02.rom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I would try running SysInfo. It has a few tests for the GTIA. It was useful when I was diagnosing a problem with my PAL 1088XEL. SysInfo v2.24 (2014-08-01)(Kokoszkiewicz, Konrad M.)(PL)(en).atr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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