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Geneve Software? What will people run once they repair those boards?

geneve 9640

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#1 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:19 PM

So, I have a Geneve. 

 

A few folks recently have Geneves that are in various states of repair.

 

A handful of you all have working Geneves. 

 

---

 

Looking around, I see lots of software development tools and proofs of concept, but no applications... 

 

Growing up, my father used his Geneve for 80 column multiplan... That was really it. That and printing. He didn't game... He managed a mailing list, which was a TI Writer or Multiplan file with peoples names and addresses organized for printing on avery labels for things like 'Christmas letter' or the user-group's newsletter mailing.  I used Myart to turn my 'C' at best homework into something that wow'ed the teachers into an 'A', or wrote little GPL snippets that crashed it. 

 

I know there was some ABASIC stuff written, but I don't know what any of it was called. In order to find anything on WHTECH you already have to know what it is. I'd love to make something like Vorticon's Gameshelf, but Geneve specific, and not limited to Games.  

 

So, I'd like to learn... what is out there for the Geneve?  What are your favorite Geneve specific programs?  What 4A programs were greatly enhanced by running on the Geneve (even if just for the speed)?  And yes, I'd like to include those tech demos and dev tools as well.  

 

-M@

 

 

 



#2 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:54 PM

The programs I use on the Geneve are My-Word, the tools for the GenProg package (Assembler, linker) and terminal emulators (My-Term and Port).

 

If you are not aware, the source code for My-Word (GPL program for the TI-99/4A side of things) and Peter Muy's EDIT (MDOS program) are both available should you at some point in time want to enhance those programs.  Not even sure that would be a decent start to even use those utilities anymore since gcc has open up a lot more possibilities of porting programs over.

 

I once gave thought to some along the lines of Excel with some graphing capabilities, but could not get some test code to behave.  Not really sure if anyone would even find something like that very useful or if there would be even sufficient interest.

 

If there are decent games that can be ported, possibly using the TIPI as a data storage device for graphics, that would be interesting.  

 

I can think of other ideas, but those would be of limited use to just a couple of people.

 

Beery



#3 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 PM

The first thing I did with my Geneve (90ies):

 

- enjoyed the 80 columns

- enjoyed the speed

- used Myword instead of TI Writer from now on

- used MyArt

- started programming the 9938, creating my Fractals program

- used Fortran9640 and wrote some program for my Math diploma thesis

- started copying all my TI cartridges to disk so that I could run them in GPL mode

- put my TI console on the shelf and became a pure Geneve user

- switched to TASM and TIC, wrote a bunch of C programs

- later got a harddisk and enjoyed booting from it and working with a HD in MDOS

- got impressed by ABASIC, but never really wrote programs for it

- tried further stuff like TPA (The printer's apprentice)

- played 80col Infocom games

- used TELCO in 80-col mode

 

Recently I found a lot of tools and programs that I never heard of ... I discovered it on the 9640 News hard disk image that can be downloaded from Whtech.



#4 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:25 PM

For a start, I'd recommend to first make extensive use of the GPL mode, i.e. running the good old TI programs in the compatibility mode. Later, I'd recommend to have a closer look at the native mode (MDOS mode). There are a few native programs.

 

Run your cartridges in GPL mode. The notable difference is that you can run them at 1 to 3 times of their original speed. By the 9938, you get additional mouse support that you can make use of in programs.

 

It was the excellent compatibility with the TI that quickly convinced me that this was the right way to go. Nearly everything was running as before (only a few exceptions, like programs that queried the keyboard directly). In turn, I got finally rid of this flaky cartridge port that added unwanted suspense to every work with my TI console, and of course of the firehose cable.



#5 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:34 PM

I have RGB screen capture tech... digging through Micropendium's, I'm struct by only seeing one screen capture... Sure made it hard to promote what a program did... of course that wasn't commodity hardware like it is today. 

 

I've also recently gotten MAME running Geneve now so I can debug my gcc efforts, I'll try some of the hard drive images out... I gave up last time I tried to use any of the images I found. But I have MAME booting off an HFDC with just MDOS on it now.  How does one know what (assuming you are talking about /Geneve/9640News/all.hd) what disk controller that image is for? 

 

I hope to mine up and showcase some gems from inside these obscuring archives.

 

-M@



#6 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:45 PM

For a start, I'd recommend to first make extensive use of the GPL mode, i.e. running the good old TI programs in the compatibility mode. Later, I'd recommend to have a closer look at the native mode (MDOS mode). There are a few native programs.

 

Run your cartridges in GPL mode. The notable difference is that you can run them at 1 to 3 times of their original speed. By the 9938, you get additional mouse support that you can make use of in programs.

 

It was the excellent compatibility with the TI that quickly convinced me that this was the right way to go. Nearly everything was running as before (only a few exceptions, like programs that queried the keyboard directly). In turn, I got finally rid of this flaky cartridge port that added unwanted suspense to every work with my TI console, and of course of the firehose cable.

 

I loved my 4A's mechatronics Gram Karte for the same reason of ending the use of the cartridge port... I keep contemplating a PEB adapter for the FinalGROM99... 

 

At this stage in the game, I'm not looking at replacing the 4A with the Geneve, but focusing on what only the Geneve can do.  MDOS or GPL mode... So that can be shown... remembered... experienced... Most of the TI'ers in my area have never even seen a Geneve. 

 

There is no celebration of it on the internet. 

 

What programs utilized the Mouse?  

 

I know of YAPP, and My-Art... 

 

The Printers Apprentice, was also a 4A program I thought... Was it enhanced when used on the Geneve? or a special version?

 

-M@



#7 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:47 PM

Oh, I'll comment, that Tunnels of Doom, and the painfully slow XB adventure / RPG games (Legends, Old Dark Caves) are fun again when run on the Geneve at full speed.  

 

-M@



#8 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:08 PM

How does one know what (assuming you are talking about /Geneve/9640News/all.hd) what disk controller that image is for?

Suffix chd or hd is for MAME hard disk images. Only the HFDC offers support for that.



#9 Shift838 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:30 PM

With my recently acquired Geneve, I use mine for connecting to BBS' via Port and the WiModem232.  Also to run games like Tunnels of doom and 80column adventures.

 

I also have MESS (not Mame) running FuSiON BBS on an emulated Geneve.  I found that MESS uses quite a bit less memory and CPU than MAME.



#10 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:53 PM

Myword - 80 column text editor similar to TI Writer, with formatter output that can display to the 80 column screen.  I wrote all of my college reports with MyWord!

 

Native Geneve programs including Directory Manager (written in TI C for MDOS mode), EDIT (good text editor for source code), 80 column terminal emulation, 80 column sector editor, Advanced Basic in 80 column mode.

 

Speed and 80 column support.

 

Loading and running cartridges (although some had to be modified to fix 9918 vs. 9938 bits).  

 

Ability to run nearly all TI software.

 

Faster Extended BASIC editing.  I re-realized this a year or two ago when I used the TI to edit some BBS programs.  The Geneve's  extra speed makes XB relatively painless.  

 

One downside is the DSR/device support. The Geneve has workarounds of its own but its not perfect.

 

A swan startup screen!  ;)



#11 ndp630 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:09 PM

The version of the Printer’s apprentice for the Geneve was TPA4MDOS. I actually wrote a review of it for Micropendium. McCann Software also had a HyperCard-like program for the Geneve as well called HQ-Stacks. I used a little but never quite got the hang of it.

 

Doug


Edited by ndp630, Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:09 PM.


#12 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:59 AM

...
A swan startup screen!  icon_wink.gif


How many Geneves in service today still have this? And is the image still around in non-gif format? I suppose it's a memory dump or RLE in the original boot rom?

I stubbled upon some gif viewers, and aiff viewers, that were bundled with the swan image. But something is lost in translation.. the swan is a GIF, and the viewer won't show the thing at proper aspect ratio.

This makes me so sad. especially since all that hardware support in the boot rom is useless to me.

----

Anyway, keep the software names coming!

-M@

#13 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:23 AM

I think it was distributed with MyArt.

Attached Files



#14 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:16 AM

I have RGB screen capture tech... digging through Micropendium's, I'm struct by only seeing one screen capture... Sure made it hard to promote what a program did... of course that wasn't commodity hardware like it is today. 
 
I've also recently gotten MAME running Geneve now so I can debug my gcc efforts, I'll try some of the hard drive images out... I gave up last time I tried to use any of the images I found. But I have MAME booting off an HFDC with just MDOS on it now.  How does one know what (assuming you are talking about /Geneve/9640News/all.hd) what disk controller that image is for? 
 
I hope to mine up and showcase some gems from inside these obscuring archives.
 
-M@

This took me some time (Fred Kaal helped me) to get into GPL mode that time: https://youtu.be/0yeNE4ps3m4

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#15 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:27 AM

Maybe this helps. I copied it from a listing


MDOS distribution, version 6.5 , My-Art, My-Word, MDM5 v 1.5 (Myarc Disk Manager 5)

utilities and games.

13DEMO, screen animation, ABASIC1 & SUITE, Basic interpreter, ARC40A & SUITE, unknown, CAR1 & SUITE, game, CHARA1, unknown, CLEANER, unknown, CYA & suite, unknown, DU & SUITE DISK UTILITY by JOHN BIRDWELL, EXEC, a loader, FORM3MEG, RAM Disk utility, GDM2K Fred G. KAAL Disk Manager, GDM 2L, GDM2M, GDM2N, may be other versions, GPL, GROM interpreter, GPL-OLD, as the name imply, GPM, GPN, GPO, GPP, support files for GPL, ISLE1 & SUITE, game, JUNGLE1 & SUITE, game

SUB1 & SUITE, game, TESTR, unknown, TEXEC, some kind of loader, TRAFFIC1 & SUITE, game, TRAIN1 & SUITE, game

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#16 RickyDean ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:23 AM

Also had some Tomy Tutor games for the Geneve, converted by Ksarul  at Whtech

 

http://ftp.whtech.co...my tutor games/



#17 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:57 AM

Myword - 80 column text editor similar to TI Writer, with formatter output that can display to the 80 column screen.  I wrote all of my college reports with MyWord!

 

 

I got through the first few years of college typing everything in MyWord.

 

Then there is Fast-Term for Geneve (FTG) which operates perfectly at 9600 baud. I used this a lot to connect to Unix systems.  Curiously, FTG has convenient key bindings for the Michigan Terminal System on the IBM/9000 mainframe, and the DELETE key sends the escape sequence for the PDP-11 network gateways in use in 1987 at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (Paul Charlton's alma mater.)



#18 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:21 PM

I'm creating a list from these posts, So I can start finding these things and review them all... lots of terminals, makes sense for the time period. icon_smile.gif

-M@

#19 globeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:20 AM

https://en.m.wikiped...perating_System

Apparently there is a v6.70, 6.71 mdos.
I have only seen 6.5x as far I recall

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#20 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:47 AM

https://en.m.wikiped...perating_System

Apparently there is a v6.70, 6.71 mdos.
I have only seen 6.5x as far I recall

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There are many earlier versions.  For reference here is where things stand:

 

6.50 is the most current official, stable release.

6.70 RC2 fixes a number of bugs and issues present in 6.50.

6.71 is an unofficial branch of 6.70, created by the late Tony K. (Gazoo). It makes the TI OS emulation (GPL) resident after the first load. I do not have plans to integrate this functionality into the next official version.

7.00 - Not yet released.  Addresses bugs/issues and adds more device support.  It is currently languishing in my project pile for a number of reasons, including one old, unresolved file cluster allocation bug and a very deep dive into the disk support routines.



#21 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:08 AM

I'm inclined to ask how in 6.71 native MDOS programs were supposed to run. Or was it just the GPL* files that were in memory?



#22 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:17 AM

MDOS has the ability with the multitasking bytes at >0102 in the application to "hide" and return back to any other running program or if no other program, to return back to the CLI.  That is what I did with Windows and the Windows GUI standalone driver.  Bruce Hellstrom also utilized something very similar with the mouse driver.  I'm not sure if the Mouse Driver is compatible with the later versions of MDOS as there were some specific bytes in the >0000 to >03FF memory space used for a hook to the driver.  Part of the success in that was using the XOP powerup routine to continue to hold onto the pages after a CTRL-ALT-DELETE was pressed.

 

I have no idea what Tony did, but I can see a modified GPL program storing the memory pages  where the other files were loaded into memory, not releasing them, and on a subsequent call of the GPL interpreter, just doing a fresh B @>0400 to "relaunch" the interpreter.  It would not hurt.  One could have also coped the GPL pages into upper extended VDP ram without giving up memory pages as well and just used the CLI to map things around for the setup.  Several different ways to tackle that issue.

 

A long time ago, post 2004, I wrote up an article and some code for a TSR (terminate stay resident) utility.  I do not know if anyone ever used it.

 

Beery



#23 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:08 PM

I'm inclined to ask how in 6.71 native MDOS programs were supposed to run. Or was it just the GPL* files that were in memory?

He added a new command (GPL, if I remember correctly) and reserves memory for the GPL* files so that once loaded, they can be executed "immediately".  It is similar to and partly based on the GPL Cheater version of GPL that I released, which does not require re-loading GPM-GPx or any GROM cartridges to re-execute the GPL interpreter.  The cheater program relies upon what is already in the TIMODE-reserved pages.



#24 FDOS OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:14 PM

 

A long time ago, post 2004, I wrote up an article and some code for a TSR (terminate stay resident) utility.  I do not know if anyone ever used it.

 

Beery

 

I did, Beery but I don't remember exactly what I was using it for, even though I just came across a document I wrote long ago that mentions my use of it.  Unfortunately, I don't use my two Geneves or SNUG TI-99/4P, at this time, as all 3 of my RGB monitors were thrown out by family members, due to "everyone is using flat screens, so no possible use for CRT crap taking up space in the garage".  I'm now in the process of using adapters for VGA and HDMI for the SNUG TI system, and If it works out well, Ill do the same for the Geneves (GenMOD & PFM512K).  Problem is, I'm much slower at getting hardware stuff done these days.  Even though I can no longer "touch type", i'm getting better at "hunt and peck" typing.  Still not fun looking up at the screen, and not being able to read what I typed. LOL

 

Bill 



#25 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:34 PM

 

I did, Beery but I don't remember exactly what I was using it for, even though I just came across a document I wrote long ago that mentions my use of it.  Unfortunately, I don't use my two Geneves or SNUG TI-99/4P, at this time, as all 3 of my RGB monitors were thrown out by family members, due to "everyone is using flat screens, so no possible use for CRT crap taking up space in the garage".  I'm now in the process of using adapters for VGA and HDMI for the SNUG TI system, and If it works out well, Ill do the same for the Geneves (GenMOD & PFM512K).  Problem is, I'm much slower at getting hardware stuff done these days.  Even though I can no longer "touch type", i'm getting better at "hunt and peck" typing.  Still not fun looking up at the screen, and not being able to read what I typed. LOL

 

Bill 

 

Glad someone got some use out of it.







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