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[final] Monkey King

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#26 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 4:15 PM

You mean frame back in the debugger or some other function?

That used to be in the debugger only, but now it is much more.

RTFM! :)

#27 Karl G ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 4:23 PM

Karl G, on 06 Sept 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:snapback.png

I find it handy sometimes to slow down Stella's emulation speed to 10% to be able to catch things like that.

 

How do you turn that on?

 

Video Settings -> Emulation Speed



#28 fluxit OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 6:07 PM


If you have time, could you check if you can keep up with the new top speed? Its twice as fast as the speed in the last version. I can't survive without using slowdown.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Editing auto quoting in the forum seems broken.   I guess I'll have to stop using it.]
 
v0.19
 
I used the slow down to speed up trick to reach max speed, and there seems to be a bug related to this.  When you start a new game after rolling under the speed counter, the new game starts at(or near) top speed.  This seems to persist.
 
I can keep up with the current top speed for a time.  It feels to be about one notch below turbo MS Pacman arcade's speed; which is appropriate IMO, as in MS Pacman, you can predict where your obstacles are going to be far in advance of your movements, unlike Monkey King.  This type of speed uses up my brain's stamina, and I don't have as much as I used to.
 
Using the glitched high-speed startup, my current top score after 3-4 games is 452.  Allowing the game to speed up on its own while using no slow downs, I reached 718 on my first try.  I could definitely do better with more sleep:-) and practice.  The only powerups that I'm using are 'remove branch' and 'add heart.'  I tend to lose my last heart to either a coconut, or closely successive delayed(on my part) movements.
 
Dodging coconuts at that speed is quite thrilling. =D

Edited by fluxit, Thu Sep 6, 2018 6:55 PM.


#29 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 7, 2018 2:00 AM

 

If you have time, could you check if you can keep up with the new top speed? Its twice as fast as the speed in the last version. I can't survive without using slowdown.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Editing auto quoting in the forum seems broken.   I guess I'll have to stop using it.]
 
v0.19
 
I used the slow down to speed up trick to reach max speed, and there seems to be a bug related to this.  When you start a new game after rolling under the speed counter, the new game starts at(or near) top speed.  This seems to persist.
 
I can keep up with the current top speed for a time.  It feels to be about one notch below turbo MS Pacman arcade's speed; which is appropriate IMO, as in MS Pacman, you can predict where your obstacles are going to be far in advance of your movements, unlike Monkey King.  This type of speed uses up my brain's stamina, and I don't have as much as I used to.
 
Using the glitched high-speed startup, my current top score after 3-4 games is 452.  Allowing the game to speed up on its own while using no slow downs, I reached 718 on my first try.  I could definitely do better with more sleep:-) and practice.  The only powerups that I'm using are 'remove branch' and 'add heart.'  I tend to lose my last heart to either a coconut, or closely successive delayed(on my part) movements.
 
Dodging coconuts at that speed is quite thrilling. =D

 

 

Oh, I'm probably not setting the 'high speed' bit to 0 when restarting. I'll fix that! So it starts at speed = 255 instead of 75.

 

But you like the new speed? Is the ramp up good or should it be a bit slower? 

Currently it gets +1 speed for every bleep up to 510, starting speed is 75. (So if you don't slow down the top speed is reached at 435 points.) 

The top speed trick will only get you to 255 speed at the moment (so old top speed) I might fix that. 

 

A slowdown takes down 20, so it does next to nothing at high speeds. I'm thinking of making it 40 at high speeds, just to make it be noticeable. 

Less skilled players would have to use the slow down a lot. Which is not bad I think. Gives you a reason to come back. 

 

Thanks for testing!


Edited by Coolcrab, Fri Sep 7, 2018 2:00 AM.


#30 fluxit OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 7, 2018 2:59 PM

 

Oh, I'm probably not setting the 'high speed' bit to 0 when restarting. I'll fix that! So it starts at speed = 255 instead of 75.

 

But you like the new speed? Is the ramp up good or should it be a bit slower? 

Currently it gets +1 speed for every bleep up to 510, starting speed is 75. (So if you don't slow down the top speed is reached at 435 points.) 

The top speed trick will only get you to 255 speed at the moment (so old top speed) I might fix that. 

 

A slowdown takes down 20, so it does next to nothing at high speeds. I'm thinking of making it 40 at high speeds, just to make it be noticeable. 

Less skilled players would have to use the slow down a lot. Which is not bad I think. Gives you a reason to come back. 

 

Thanks for testing!

 

I thought I was noticing a difference, but I wasn't sure if it was still ramping up from "top speed" :)

 

Yeah, I like it.  I'm sure that there are those who would say it's still too slow(Tetris masters perhaps.) O_o

 

As for the ramp up, it does seem a bit abrupt.  The original ramp was too gradual, IMO.  Something in between would probably be best.  As for the slow down, I'm not sure.  I don't personally have a problem with the first power up having almost no noticeable impact at max speed, as it's easy enough to pick up two in a row if you wish to slow down.  If you can't handle the speed well enough to be able to pick up a couple of power ups before you use up your hearts, you're pretty much done for anyway.

 

The testing has been fun, and your recommendations have made it even more enjoyable.  Thanks for the game.  I'll definitely be wanting this on a cart when you're happy with it.



#31 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 9, 2018 4:17 AM

New Version is up in the main thread. 

 

 

Greetings!

 

Just spent some time playing Monkey King.  Here are my initial thoughts:

  • Allow fire button to start game, both when you first power up the system and after you've completed a game.  If you were having a problem with people restarting the game immediately after ending, add a slight delay before accepting another button press, and/or make sure the button wasn't already depressed when the game ends. 
     
  • The computer player is quite good, too good in fact. Watched him play for a while after I died and he makes very few mistakes.  Pretty much the only thing that would kill him is when coconuts was dropped on him, but he'd just get the stones and give himself more lives to keep on going indefinitely.
     
  • It seems once the speed reaches some maximum, the game does not get any harder.  This is allowing the computer to pretty much play indefinitely once you die (if you have the right difficulty set to A), especially as the computer uses the stones to give himself extra lives.  Presumably a good human player could do the same thing.  I think the difficulty needs to keep ramping up to just short of "impossible".  Either the speed can keep going up, or other elements introduced to make it more difficult.  Obviously monkeys can only climb so fast, so I'd be for new gameplay elements as you progress up the infinite tree, which would also help make the game more interesting.
     
  • It would be nice if the branches at the bottom don't just "disappear", but scroll off in the same fashion as the branches from the top of the screen do.  
     
  • Once the game speeds up, I'm not sure it's even possible to get the stones that are between two branches, where there's only one space between them.  I noticed the computer doesn't even try for these.  :)
     
  • It would be nice if the tree's graphics could be improved so the trees look more like trees.  Same thing with the coconuts and stones.  Not sure what is possible in batari Basic, though.  
     
  • I would prefer that the SELECT switch be used to select between single and multiplayer, with some sort of visual indicator on the screen (like showing one or two monkeys).  Difficulty switches are a bit of a pain without reading the manual. 
     
  • The computer player does not move up and down like a human player does.  Since the human player can always get a bit above the computer player, the human can always get the stones first.   Would be nice if that could be added to make it feel more like another player instead of a robotic AI.  
     
  • Maybe change the background color as the difficulty ramps up?  Would help add some visual variety. 
     
  • Redefine the score digits so they aren't the stock batari Basic digits? 
I understand the game is 4K now, are you hoping to keep it at 4K?  I'm guessing some of this would be difficult to do without going to 8K at a minimum.  
 
That's all for now.  :)
 
 ..Al

 

Thanks for the feedback Al!

  1. Firebutton can now be used
  2. AI now makes mistakes every now and then, but still does not move. I'm not sure if there is enough ROM to get that done.
  3. Top speed is now a lot higer, most people testing it seem happy with the new top speed. 
  4. This is my main focus now. 
  5. If you are fast enough you can get a stone between two branches. The AI ignores them because he does not actively go after stones.
  6. Graphics can't be improved (AFAIK) atleast in 4k. 
  7. Not really enough space for this I think. Plus I am going for a more early atari look/feel. So a title screen would not fit well I think. 
  8. I tried to make the AI move and it looks either unnatural or he just kills himself.  Again space limitations. 
  9. I might look into this, but my main problem with this is that the colors would change if players slow down. Which would be strange I think.
  10. Done! Good suggestion. 

I tried to go into 8K with the game, but the way that it is made (with a lot of gosubs) it does not fit into a bankswitch bank. (As gosubs and goto's take more bytes.) 

As far as I understand bank swiched programs (which is not very well I have to admit) I won't get a whole lot of more space for the game itself if I go there, so currently it does not seem to be worth it. 

 

 

I thought I was noticing a difference, but I wasn't sure if it was still ramping up from "top speed" :)

 

Yeah, I like it.  I'm sure that there are those who would say it's still too slow(Tetris masters perhaps.) O_o

 

As for the ramp up, it does seem a bit abrupt.  The original ramp was too gradual, IMO.  Something in between would probably be best.  As for the slow down, I'm not sure.  I don't personally have a problem with the first power up having almost no noticeable impact at max speed, as it's easy enough to pick up two in a row if you wish to slow down.  If you can't handle the speed well enough to be able to pick up a couple of power ups before you use up your hearts, you're pretty much done for anyway.

 

The testing has been fun, and your recommendations have made it even more enjoyable.  Thanks for the game.  I'll definitely be wanting this on a cart when you're happy with it.

I'm glad that you like it! I updated the game a bit to iron out all (I hope) errors. 

The game is not far from a final version now.  



#32 Impaler_26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 9, 2018 5:52 AM


Not really enough space for this I think. Plus I am going for a more early atari look/feel. So a title screen would not fit well I think. 

 

I think a blocky playfield titlescreen like the example below would fit in very well with the early Atari look, looks like it was made with the video graffiti mode of Surround. ;)

 

mkt.jpg



#33 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:42 PM

Now with boxart featuring art by Steve Hammond!



#34 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:55 PM

Thanks to a tip by Karl I managed to fix the scrolling. Still have 39 bytes left so open to suggestions of small features. 



#35 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:27 PM

Major AI overhaul, it now chases after stones and gives you a good challenge. 

I also changed the graphics of the UI a bit. 

 

2 bytes left, I want to add two more if statments, so need to free up space somehow. After that I think that its done. :)

 

 



#36 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:56 AM

I've played the game with friends and family on my now fixed retron 77. Some bugs were found. The game would stop if speed=0 and p1 could move above the tree, etc.

All these things are fixed. I also added a slight delay on resetting the game when dead so that you can see your score. I also made the AI a bit better so now he can live up to about 2-3k on his own.

 

I think that it is very low on glitches now. But feedback still welcome!



#37 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:14 AM

New version out that covers all the glitches that were found in last months ZPHB stream. 

 

Unless more mistakes are found this should be final. :)

 

Comments welcome!



#38 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:04 PM

rc6 now allows the losing player to 'keep playing' as a ghost when they lose in 'keep going mode'. Idea Suggested by Fluxit and Karl G in bB forums. 

 

wXVyCf8.png



#39 Coolcrab OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:48 PM

Game is done! :) 



#40 Gilles_B OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:55 AM

Hello!

 

Nice game! Reminds me a lot of "fall down", just the other way around :)

 

Just one issue: both the PAL 60 and NTSC register as being NTSC. Since I'm playing on a PAL system, I have colours being shifted in both cases, which makes the PAL version unplayable (it's too dark) and the NTSC okay but not pretty. Maybe this is a simple declaration in the program that's missing? I don't have a clue how this works.

 

Cheers and many thanks for your work






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