New Starcat Devocean project?

[Starcat]

Hey everyone,
in this post I speak for the Starcat Devocean team. We’ve been toying with a new game idea for a while now. This post is about getting an idea whether or not there may be enough interest in a Jag version. And how such a version could be realized and distributed.

Who are we?
Starcat Devocean is a team of two from Germany (Starcat and Gavia + occasional helpers) developing homebrew video games in our spare time. We’re not making games for a profit, but because we want to say something, share our vision, entertain and tell a story. The games are experimental, creative / artistic and sometimes raw. There is no padding around unpolished edges.
If you like games in 2D pixel style strong focus on storytelling and oldschool game mechanics maybe there is something here for you.

What making homebrew games is like...
This isn’t a business. It doesn’t pay any bills. (Maybe it does for pirate scum on Ebay, but not for us. We don’t even get a dollar donation if we don’t enforce it, but we don’t want to resort to that.)
We’re creatives, artists and programmers and we do what we do with what limited resources (time, energy, motivation, money) we have.
The best thing you can do to support us is enjoy what we make, spread the word, show a bit of appreciation and if you liked a game maybe consider a donation. Like help cover expenses, buy us a virtual beer or coffee as a token of love.

A look back...
The previous Starcat Devocean release »HalMock FurBall: Sink or Swim« was a bit of a shock to us. The download numbers were the lowest of any of our releases yet. From a technical and creative point of view it was pushing the Jag further than any of our releases before. So what went wrong? Not your kind of game? Not interesting because there is nothing for collectors? Not enough »promotion«? Not interesting because it’s just a demo to test the waters?
Our expectation was that at least people would be curious to play something new. There are definately worse releases out there...
Whatever it may be. To us it felt like we were wasting our time by bringing new games to the Jaguar. We have decided that »HalMock FurBall: Sink or Swim« will not be developed further for the Jag and maybe not at all.
We were considering a cart version of »JagMind: BombSquad«, but we got zero reaction to that. Again it feels like nobody cares.

To us it’s a simple question of priorities and time. Making a game for the Jag is a lot of extra work. Personally I still love the Jag and would like to keep doing something.
But my honest question and worry is: Is this still the right platform to put time into?
I’m willing to give it another try. But I’m really having a hard time understanding today’s community. I've been keeping an eye on the forums and social media for the past year. Prices for hardware and software go through the roof. Most people have the equipment to play homebrew games. There are less flame wars. People have grown up it seems. There are more releases than ever before. Great things are happending. More developers are around, but still the community doesn’t feel as active or more healthy than it was fifteen years ago.

Why this post?

I'm not asking what games you want to see on the Jag. That's not the point here.

We can only make our games and I wonder if the Jag is still a good fit for those.
What I’m trying to figure out is how this whole thing can work for me and my team.

And if our game idea is something you want to get for the Jag.

Do you still play Jaguar games or just collect them?

 

Do you care about a game if it’s only available as digital release and would you be willing to pay for it to support the developers?

 

Would you care about a game because it’s on the Jaguar, but not if it was on a different platform?

 

Is there a kind of game on the Jaguar you’re sick of? Something you do NOT care about?

 

What would be your perfect release scenario and medium for a new game? (CD, Cart, Download + homebrew-runnable-device...)

Our game idea...

ITCAN (working title) would be an interactive story in a noir-like setting with life-simulation-like and rpg-like elements. A bit coming-of-age, a bit dystopian, socio-critical thought-provoking. It’s based on a short story of mine, which I wanted to turn into an animated movie almost ten years ago, but that never happened.

The idea never went away. I feel like a game format would be perfect, because playing is stronger than watching something.
It will not a big game in one run, but replaying it will open a lot of possibilities.
It won't be a feel-good game and there is no action. It’s no graphics or hardware showcase. But there is nothing like this on the Jaguar and if you like indie storytelling games this one is for you.

A lot of the game concept is already written and I’m prototyping on PC. Now I’m trying to get an idea if this would be a title you want to get and play on the Jaguar.

Cheers
Lars

[Stage_1_Boss]

Hey, thanks for the well put together post,

I personally both collect for and play my Jaguar and would love to see your idea brought to the console.

When you ask if I care about a game because it's on the Jaguar and not if it was on another platform, I do that quite often. There's a good handful of these games I've picked up just because they're on my favorite console to collect for, so in the end, it does open me up to playing a few titles I may not have otherwise.

I suppose it's just how I enjoy going about my hobby.

[Clint Thompson]

I never did play Furball because it wouldn't run on my model of Jaguar. I kind of forgot to even bother with trying it on VJ but always prefer real hardware, just that it was a newer release by you but have no idea what the game is really about and other than the one graphic of the character, didn't really see much about the game. I've noticed downloads for most things seem to be in the sub-100 range but possibly due to a lot of people being elsewhere in regards to the Jaguar and not just primarily on AA.

 

If it'll be anything like the Erievale you were working on, I would look forward to that. I no longer collect and like you, my interest with the Jag is more about creating than playing these days but that's not to say I don't try to at least play everything new that hits the Jag at some point.

 

*looking now, I couldn't pull up any YouTube results for the game either. Is there a video somewhere?

Edited October 1, 2018 by Clint Thompson

[agradeneu]

Thanks for Furball.. The interest might come with proof of concept.. Jaguar is a small niche machine and developing for it is a labour of love and mostly just for fun. The concept sounds cool and ambitious, good luck, no matter on which platform it will come to realization.

Edited October 1, 2018 by agradeneu

[Isgoed]

There was a time when Jaguar homebrew releases were scarce, so when a new title came out it was much welcomed by the fans, even though the game was simple.

In the last years there have been numerous releases, so maybe the fans got a little spoiled and more picky at which game to buy?

 

There are a lot of releases for which I don't care enough to buy those, but there are some that I bought without thinking twice, like -for example- Another World, Philia, Protector Resurgence (although the skill level is trashed) or Downfall +.

If Soulstar get's released on cd (which I doubt atm) I would buy that in a heartbeat too.

In the end it's all about personal taste and how much someone is willing to spend.

 

When you released Bombsquad I immediately bought that game from you, and liked that game very much, despite being a simple concept but the 1 playermode was well executed imo with sound and music that fitted the game well.

The puzzel mode is bugged though, but when you "learn" to play the game it's not the mode that I would play much.

 

Maybe it's also that the "older" fans have grown up, are busy raising kids who have only interest in modern videogames, and less money to spend.

On the other hand, looking at releases like Another World it shows that the demand for a quality title is still there.

 

Eerivale looked promising but that never got finished?

Edited October 1, 2018 by Isgoed

[agradeneu]

 

There was a time when Jaguar homebrew releases were scarce, so when a new title came out it was much welcomed by the fans, even though the game was simple.

In the last years there have been numerous releases, so maybe the fans got a little spoiled and more picky at which game to buy?

 

Yep, quality of actual releases is improving. You just can't sell promises anymore. I'm glad these times are over.,

Edited October 1, 2018 by agradeneu

[haightc]

The reason I haven't purchased much Jaguar homebrew is that there isn't a readily available ROM cart yet. Buying phyiscal releases are expensive and find a jaguar CD that working that doesn't cost half a months salary is far as I can tell. Also keep Jagaurs up and runnning themselves is annoying too, mine just quit a couple months ago. I am hoping to be able to fix it, but a working Jaguar alone goes for 200-300 USD

[+davidcalgary29]

Lack of knowledge/advertising? I would have bought 2 copies of "Bombsquad" if it had been given a cart release. And I can't recall having heard about "Furball" before this...

[+Saturn]

I'm in for this and any other releases.

Bombsquad on cart I'm definitely down for but also furball

[UHATEIT]

I'd love to see Eerievale finished and released! The demo is great and a horror themed game like that would be great! I'd buy a full release of that for sure!

[82-T/A]

The previous Starcat Devocean release »HalMock FurBall: Sink or Swim« was a bit of a shock to us. The download numbers were the lowest of any of our releases yet. From a technical and creative point of view it was pushing the Jag further than any of our releases before. So what went wrong? Not your kind of game? Not interesting because there is nothing for collectors? Not enough »promotion«? Not interesting because it’s just a demo to test the waters?

Cheers

Lars

 

 

Hi, just wanted to answer this question. I've literally never heard of HalMock Furball. I just did a search on YouTube for a video of it, and even in quotes, I couldn't find anything. The best I could find were cat videos, and there was one video from RetroGames, but it looked like it was a review of a ton of stuff, and that just happened to be in it.

 

I've been on AtariAge since 2004... and just never seen it. So promotion might be a big deal.

 

 

Also, I rarely download games, even though I have the cart that allows me to flash games onto it. It's just kind of a pain in the butt, so I don't bother. I'm sorry. But if the game was good, and you guys did a good release, I'd play it. I've bought every serious attempt at a home brew on the Jaguar. Both CD and cartridge.

 

I'd really appreciate someone posting or uploading a video though...

 

 

EDIT: I do have BombSquad. If I'm not mistaken, that's on CD right? I rarely play my CD games... but I do buy them all.

Edited October 1, 2018 by 82-T/A

[agradeneu]

Let's be realitistic, the Jaguar is a niche market, but with a dedicated fan base, still willing to buy even poor quality releases, but to make any Impression on any commercial platform, may it Steam or PSN, your game has to be VERY GOOD, if not BRILLIANT. The Indie games market is overcrowded with decent releases and 90% of them won't turn any profits for the authors. Just look at Escape Truth Defenders: 4 user reviews on Steam and its a solid decent effort of an experienced developer with a solid track record! The reason is fierce Competition as atm there are millions of super talented desigers and artists creating games because tools are cheap and powerful.

"Axiom Verge" took like 6 years to develope, by one author in his spare time, it might recently turn a profit thanks to the Switch Version and recieving glowing reviews and praise. But thats more of a rare occasion.

But the question is: If 90% of releases never might turn a profit or will create income for the authors, WHAT actually drives people to create games in the first place?? Answer that for yourself. This survey really makes no sense IMO, there is no actual game to vote for, it's not 2002 anymore. Even its only the Jaguar, you probably are asking for too much?

Edited October 2, 2018 by agradeneu

[+Stephen Moss]

Hi Lars,

I just had a quick look at HalMock FurBall: Sink or Swim only trying the first couple of waves and to be honest I think it is pretty poor. If I am going to get a new Jag game it will take more than relentless button mashing and rather basic looking graphics to peak my interest, also the description was not that inspiring to start with and single button games by their nature are general pretty boring which is probably why both the downloads numbers were low & I probably ignored it when its availability was first available.

 

I can understand you wanting to develop the kind of games you want to and not what we would want because if you have no interest in what you are doing the end result will probable not be that great, and that approach is fine for something like the PC where there are millions of potential users so you may get a reasonable uptake. However, the Jaguar user base is much smaller, consequently the downside of working on what you want and not what the user base wants (unless what you want is filling a void a much needed in the existing games library) is that the uptake is likely to be a handful if any.

 

I like the sound of ITCAN as it sounds like it may be similar to Eerievale or that cyberpunk game James Garmin (OMC games)? was working on both of which I would like to have seen finished. In answer to your questions...

I find I have little time for any gaming although I do try to get some time in over Christmas and so still occasionally play Jag Games.

I get games to play not collect and just sit on a shelf.

I would be willing to pay for it but how much (if any) depends on how good it is and how much I think I would play it (last games I purchased were Robinsons Requiem & Phillia, the cost of BS/BSG is crazy for what it is & the amount of play it would get).

I do not mind which release format is used as I can currently cope with all of them.

I do not mind if a game is not exclusive to the Jaguar, it is probably easier and more cost effective to produce for multiple platforms considering with the uptake and any financial rewards supporting the production of Jaguar version.

 

If you want to create versions for different platforms & can use the same assets for all the different platform perhaps the way to proceed regarding any potential Jaguar version is to create it for another more primary platform, then uses the assets to create a quick playable demo of the Jag version that people can try on Virtual Jaguar and then poll on how many people would want a Jag version to see if the numbers make working on it further viable for you.

[+CyranoJ]

Well, all I can say is this:

 

IF you love making games

AND you want to make a game

AND you want to make it for the Jaguar

AND (as you say in your first post) ((you know you won't get rich) AND (this doesn't matter to you))

THEN nothing anyone says here matters.

[Starcat]

Hmm, I can't seem to edit my original post to include comments at the top.

 

Thanks for the replies so far. This is very helpful.

 

I'm aware that doing something for the Jag is a labor of love. That's the only reason work on games anyway.

However in many cases what we saw in the past felt like like very conditional or even unrequited love. It's understandable, we are strangers. You may want something from us (a game, entertainment, a physical good) and we want something from you (to entertain you, appreciation, support to allow us to keep doing this).

Naturally things had to be a certain way to earn the love, like a certain type of game, a physical release for collectors, well promoted...

 

Many of these things we can't provide. We can not make professional games without a professional team and budget. That's a hard lesson I had to accept during the Eerievale project.

Starcat Devocean will not make games of that scope anymore. It serves no one to have big plans that can't be realized with the resources we have.

I didn't promote much in the past, because that feels much like hyping or empty promises. And still there was too much of that.

 

There are no videos of HalMock, because I felt that providing the game bundled with an emulator would be better than just a video. I don't have the equipment to grab a video signal. Maybe I have to film it off a screen.

 

I don't want to do physical releases myself, but I can imagine teaming up with a publisher to take care of that.

 

@Stage_1_Boss: That's what I meant. Collecting versus playing.

My impression is that these days a lot more people collect and less time is put into playing for many different reasons (time, priorities, too many games out there on other platforms to play, etc)

 

@Clint Thompson: The stability problems of the original release of HalMock were improved, which was later patched. The problem was the OP crashing due to bandwidth issues which of course do not happen in VJ. Real hardware sometimes runs into problems, but most of the time it's fine. I could never make it *perfect* though.

 

This new idea will not be like Eerievale at all. It won't be a traditional graphic adventure, it won't be huge and will not have such a strong focus on art.

The focus will be on gameplay, storytelling and will be text heavier. Best imagine it as an interactive story with some pixelart to illustrate different locations.

Which on the plus side means it could run from Cart or CD, maybe it will even fit into RAM. A problem may be saving to a regular save eprom. 128 bytes is not much. But I'll think about that issue if things get there.

 

@Isgoed:

Maybe you could send me a PM to let me know about your issues with the puzzle mode of Bombsquad.

I get what you're saying and I agree. However HalMock as an example is not sold, it's free. So our guess was that people would check it out. At least that's what I'd do with any new Jaguar rom I get my hands on.

If people don't know about the game and nobody talks about it, that's a problem. Maybe the Jaguar has reached a point where there are too many releases to try every single one? Like having a library of 300 games on steam.

 

@agradeneu: I fully agree. Considering a hobby project a promise is a problem by itself. It's also one of the reasons I'm not doing the whole Indiegogo, Kickstarter thing. I'm not promising anything anymore.

To be clear: This post is not an announcement for a game. There may or may not be a release for the Jag. We will know when it's there, until then it isn't.

 

@haightc: I get the appeal of a cart release. It's just something I can't offer myself, maybe through a publisher. At the same time you say releases are expensive and not everyone has a Jag setup next to their TV. Well, our rom was bundled with the emulator for free. But maybe that doesn't feel much like playing a Jag game?

 

@davidcalgary29 and @saturn: I guess you're both right. Again this is something a publisher could provide. As a developer I want to focus on making something rather than distributing it.

 

@UHATEIT: Sorry. We tried very long with Eerievale, but we can't do a project of that scope in our spare time.

 

@82-T/A: Okay. So maybe my assumption was wrong. Just because many have the means to play homebrew roms, doesn't actually mean people use them as much? Was there ever a poll how many users of homebrew devices or CD drives are out there compared to cart?

 

--

What I hear is: Physical releases are important to you (cart prefered), even if they are not cheap to produce. And releases need more promotion rather than to hope for word-of-mouth?

 

What about this interactive story idea then? Does it sound like something you would want to play (or collect if a publisher teams up)? (Please fill the poll if you haven't already.)

 

[agradeneu]

To be a bit blunt: Try to sell a grandios sounding game idea without any proof of concept to anyone and you will get red lit instantly, on any platform, may it be Kickstarter or Steam. Te me, the subtext of this Survey and the whole post by that matter looks more like the usual "Are you worthy of my grandios plans?" and "I demand your attention in ADVANCE" tactics.

Yes, there were times in the Jag community when any average Joe with no track record could claim to work on the bext big thing on the Jag and get the desired attention right away. It's a bit dubious that a newly found game dev stops development on a simple mini game because of lack of interest, but projects the image a a lofty game idea right away. Life Simulation and RPG sounds too grandios to be true, and honestly, even a dev with an excellent track record and actual expierience of doing similar complex games would have to do hard work to pull off something like that on the Jaguar.

Edited October 2, 2018 by agradeneu

[Starcat]

@Stephen Moss:

It's not a complex game as it is and it's not for everyone. What's there was to test the waters with a mode that could be used for competitions on events for example.

 

We make the games we want to make, much like any decent creative does what they do best. It's not like feedback didn't matter. All I meant was: In the past most of my games were done, because people asked for them at some point. But personally I was never happy with the results. They weren't the games I wanted to make. What I learned was, it works much better if the team focusses on the game we are good at.

 

Thanks for answering the questions. It helps.

 

In fact we are developing our games on PC primary and then we would adjust it to the Jaguar.

 

@CyranoJ: What was said in this post was already helpful to me.

The thing is, I still love the Jag, but my opinion is not enough. The team has limited resources and doing a Jag version is a lot of extra work.

If nobody cared, there would be no point in doing it.

@agradeneu: I'm not SELLING anything. I am ASKING. We are not a company. We are not making a profit.

We are creatives asking for the honest and hopefully self reflected opinion of the fans. That's what the poll is for.

To see why HalMock tanked and if the Jag may still be worth the effort.
Most people in this thread already said helpful things.

[Starcat]

To all: It would be helpful to me, if you filled the poll with your preferences for later.

 

Please comment if this interactive story idea sound like something you would want to play (or collect if a publisher teams up).

It's not a big game, but it's meant to be replayed. There is no action, it's not a graphics-showcase. But it's focus is on storytelling in a way the Jag doesn't have yet.

 

As mentioned in the first post, we're working on the game for the PC. Once that is done, you'll get a better idea what this is about.

Until then I thank you for your constructive feedback.

If you want to keep in touch on what the Starcat Devocean team or myself am up to, there is always Twitter, Facebook and the websites in my signature.

[+CyranoJ]

@CyranoJ: What was said in this post was already helpful to me.

The thing is, I still love the Jag, but my opinion is not enough. The team has limited resources and doing a Jag version is a lot of extra work.

If nobody cared, there would be no point in doing it.

 

If nobody cared, you wouldn't be doing it. You obviously care. What else matters?

[sh3-rg]

I like these kinds of games where you re-play, learn more and are better equipped to progress next time (but will inevitably fail and repeat the cycle). There's tons of indie games that do this and the most recent example I can think of is actually a text adventure written in Dreams for ps4 (closed beta, not released). Actually, I say I like them, I don't actually like to play them, but I like the concept and like watching videos of someone else go through them when I'm in a very CBA mood. And I don't actually play Jaguar games at all bar giving a go or two to anything that's released freely, so I'm not at all sure my feedback is of any use at all But it doesn't seem like the kind of game you'd need on a cart if you just wanted to play it, as unless it has different endings and branching narrative it's going to be one-and-done. Box collectors/shelf-fillers will buy it whatever, might never even take it out of the box. Physical CD release might make more sense, despite the hassle in getting it created, as that kind of game seems like it'd benefit massively from a proper soundtrack.

 

For me, attempting something as you suggest on Jaguar would be an interesting exercise, but probably working within the confines of the system would stifle creativity too much and lead to too many compromises. But if you're making it for PC and are down-porting to Jaguar later, well that's an entirely different situation... but I'd personally just get that done and released first and then come here with the questions and polls because in that kind of context, with something tangible people can accurately consider, then you're getting actual useful feedback and not asking for opinions based on theoreticals.

[Lost Dragon]

Sh3-rg basically nails it.

 

Personally i would say if you want to create a game for the reasons you've listed and are interested in getting other people's thoughts on it..

 

Just do it on PC , see what sort of comments it gets and decide if it was worth the time making it.

 

See how you feel about potential Jaguar version once the PC version is done and dusted.

[+Saturn]

The project sounds great to me. It's been an idea for at least a decade so I'm enthusiastic about seeing it realized on the Jaguar.

My earlier post came from my phone where I couldn't really put more detail in (didn't have my glasses and feared auto correct would have posted garbled nonsense) but yes, having the project come to fruition is worth more than anything else. I'd just like to have the end result on a cart. As with Furball-just bc it's an enjoyable game imo.

I'd settle for any type of medium though, whether it be a purchased rom download or even a video. Still devastated about Eerievale's hard drive crash way back. (using devastated for dramatic effect) but there was enough salvaged to get an idea of what it was going to be. I hack Jag Doom a lot and understand the joy of making something, albeit from a completely different standpoint. I hope you choose to pursue it

[Clint Thompson]

Circling back to this, I'm wondering why not just all of the poll options? Seems more like a feeler for gauging general interest for the type of game instead but as Agradeneu pointed out, it's hard to sell anyone on something they can't see a WIP or general concept of. With Errievale you had that. You had a working in-progress concept game and people were really wanting that. The Jaguar was the 64-bit promise and it seems people are still looking for stuff that kind of pushes it that way or even graphically pleasing to some extent. It sounds like it's going to be a Zork-styled text based game with limited visuals but considering the work you've done on Errievale, you could have some really nice cut scenes or graphics to include, even if they're small or banner-like. Just something to visually wet the appetite appropriately so.

 

There are probably quite a few that would play it but may not want to shell out the $60 for a physical release. Then there are those who collect and will want it on cart or CD regardless and will pay the asking price. Some may be open to the digital download with fee paid but seems less likely and probably falls more into the donationware category or pay as much or as little as you see fit, kind of like you see some music artists tend to do with their music releases. The ones who really appreciate it will throw some coin your way I'm sure. I suppose it just depends on the final product really.

 

Also, comparing Furball to something with more content or story based like this doesn't seem fair either, since they are two completely different game styles and target different audiences altogether, even if it's all for the same group. It's funny though, every time I see the Mastermind game at the store, I think of your Bombsquad =)

[Diatoir3d]

Would it be something along the lines of 999: Nine Hours, Nine persons, Nine Doors on the Nintendo DS? I have a lot of time for story telling in that way.

[+Stephen Moss]

To all: It would be helpful to me, if you filled the poll with your preferences for later.

 

It is difficult to fill in the poll as I still do not know enough about the game consequently...

I do not know if I should be selecting the "No, not my kind of game" option the to know if it is my type of game or not. Perhaps if there was another game with similar type of intended game play i.e. Bards Tale, Zork, or whatever that people could google to get a better idea of what it may be like it would make the poll easier for them to complete.

 

If it was my type of game then free download or physical release would be my preferences as...

a) Physical release can be played by all Jag owners

b) Free download can be played by all Jag owners (if it runs in Virtual Jag), perhaps make it donationware so that those who like it and play it a lot can make a small payment for it, say £5 and everyone else gets to try it then delete it if they don't like it.