Starglider01 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) Hi guys, a couple of questions please. This is for a video of upgrading the video, sound and RAM for my channel http://youtube.com/perifractic so I want to show the before and after memory stats. I also want to get games working on the new memory 48K that didn't work on the standard Atari 400 memory. 1. I don't have a BASIC cart or any SD card device, just the stock Atari 400 and a few games (Asteroids, Star Wars, Return of the Jedi.) Is there any way to get the machine to display how much RAM it has? 2. As most Atari 800 games support the Atari 400, what is the benefit of a memory upgrade? - Can you list some games that will run on the 800 not 400 (until I upgrade to 48K)? My confusion is compounded by some games like Rescue on Fractalus (the one I want to get working) being listed as for the "XE" consoles, yet on eBay and AtariMania it being listed as for the "400/800/XE/XL". Anyone know which it is? - Will the memory open up additional features on the same 400/800 cart? Thanks! Edited October 2, 2018 by Starglider01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DamonicFury Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Hi guys, a couple of questions please. This is for a video of upgrading the video, sound and RAM for my channel http://youtube.com/perifractic so I want to show the before and after memory stats. I also want to get games working on the new memory 48K that didn't work on the standard Atari 400 memory. 1. I don't have a BASIC cart or any SD card device, just the stock Atari 400 and a few games (Asteroids, Star Wars, Return of the Jedi.) Is there any way to get the machine to display how much RAM it has? 2. As most Atari 800 games support the Atari 400, what is the benefit of a memory upgrade? 3. Can you list some games that will run on the 800 not 400 (until I upgrade to 48K)? My confusion is compounded by some games like Rescue on Fractalus (the one I want to get working) being listed as for the "XE" consoles, yet on eBay and AtariMania it being listed as for the "400/800/XE/XL". Anyone know which it is? 4. Will the memory open up additional features on the same 400/800 cart? Thanks! 1. I don't think so, but a BASIC cart is pretty cheap. Alternately, you could get a cart game that requires 48K and see if it works. 2. Most common carts do run on the 400, but there's certainly a bunch that need the extra memory of a 800, and a few that need that 64K of the 1200XL/800XL/65XE/130XE models. (see next answer.) Also most disk-based games require 48K (or 64K) 3. Looks like ApolloBoy listed a bunch of cart memory requirements 10 years ago: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/136057-xegs-cart-compatiblity-list/ According that list, Rescue on Fractalus needs 48K, as does Archon, Ballblazer, and a bunch of others. 4. I suppose such a thing is possible, but I never heard of it being done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 Very helpful reply, thank you. Long story short, if I bought Choplifter cart (48K) it wouldn't work on my 400 until I did the upgrade? Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DamonicFury Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Very helpful reply, thank you. Long story short, if I bought Choplifter cart (48K) it wouldn't work on my 400 until I did the upgrade? Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic The XE (gray) cart of Choplifer looks like it is actually 64K. And it may need the XL/XE OS (I'm not sure.) However, that's the more graphically advanced version of Choplifter that came out from Atari Corp. in the late 80's. I believe the earlier cart from Brøderbund only needed 16k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 The XE (gray) cart of Choplifer looks like it is actually 64K. And it may need the XL/XE OS (I'm not sure.) However, that's the more graphically advanced version of Choplifter that came out from Atari Corp. in the late 80's. I believe the earlier cart from Brøderbund only needed 16k. Yikes, so neither are specifically 48K [emoji2369] How about Rescue on Fractalus? I see an "XE" version on eBay... [emoji848] Basically I want one that won't work until I do the 48K mod. Thanks! Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Sio2pc and run a diagnostics disk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DamonicFury Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Yikes, so neither are specifically 48K [emoji2369] How about Rescue on Fractalus? I see an "XE" version on eBay... [emoji848] Basically I want one that won't work until I do the 48K mod. That one should be fine. Just tested it on my 48K Atari 800... worked great! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I have a CIB copy of the older Brøderbund cartridge. I don’t have a 400 but I do have an 800 with removable memory modules. Should I just pop out all but 16k and see if it works? I also have an Ultimate Atari cart for A8 but I use it primarily with my 800XL. They say it isn’t compatible with the 800 but I recall it working fine if you remove the RF/EMI plate from the cart door which would otherwise hit the cart’s reset button. This means that I can test just about any cartridge game on an 800 downgraded to 16K, an 800 at 48K, and an 800XL at 64K. Let me know what games you’d like me to test! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 I have a CIB copy of the older Brøderbund cartridge. I don’t have a 400 but I do have an 800 with removable memory modules. Should I just pop out all but 16k and see if it works? If you don't mind! Also interested in Rescue on Perifractalus [emoji6] Though the above thread seems to indicate that would work. Your friend in retro, Perifractic Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 If you don't mind! Also interested in Rescue on Perifractalus [emoji6] Though the above thread seems to indicate that would work. Your friend in retro, Perifractic Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Well, I did play Rescue on [Peri]Fractalus on my Atari 5200 earlier today before I ever saw this thread, and that’s essentially a 16k A8 machine. Just got home with my 800 (retrieved from storage)... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I even left it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Well, I did play Rescue on [Peri]Fractalus on my Atari 5200 earlier today before I ever saw this thread, and that’s essentially a 16k A8 machine. Just got home with my 800 (retrieved from storage)... Small world! What are the odds. I'm told the XE version of Fractalus will work on the 800 but not the 400. Any way to confirm before I order one? Thanks in advance. Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) Small world! What are the odds. I'm told the XE version of Fractalus will work on the 800 but not the 400. Any way to confirm before I order one? Thanks in advance. Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs ️ http://youtube.com/perifractic ️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Uh oh. This might be as far as I get tonight... I can’t seem to find a proper RF switch without going back to the storage unit. Double-disappointing because the RAM cover cracked a bit when I removed it. [emoji20] Just getting old is all (older than I am [emoji4]). Edited October 3, 2018 by CZroe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 No rush and I greatly appreciate your efforts [emoji106][emoji973]️ Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) No rush and I greatly appreciate your efforts [emoji106]️ Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs ️ http://youtube.com/perifractic ️ http://patreon.com/perifractic [Not so much of a] Crisis averted! Found this hiding in my C64 box, since I use an original Commodore-brand Chroma/Luma cable with the 1702. [emoji4] Edited October 3, 2018 by CZroe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) Uh oh... Almost ready to try that out anyway... Edited October 3, 2018 by CZroe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 This seems to answer my question! [emoji108] Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 This seems to answer my question! [emoji108] Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Uhmmm... ...maybe not. It works great. Played it a bit too. Definitely only have 16k installed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) I’m going to guess that the floppy or tape versions need more RAM and that they just copied the incorrect requirements for the cart version. Anyway, on to Rescue on [Peri]Fractalus! 16k yields a nice-looking gradient Lucasfilm Games logo... ...but the star field is missing and the mothership is corrupted. I didn’t let it play much further but did reboot and reseat several times (no change). This one isn’t a real cartridge though. It’s an Ultimate Atari Cartridge for A8 systems. Even so... ...reinstalling the removed 32k to restore 48k makes it work. Looks like this really does need more than 16k even if the Atari 5200 version does not. Edited October 3, 2018 by CZroe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 I’m going to guess that the floppy or tape versions need more RAM and that they just copied the incorrect requirements for the cart version. Anyway, on to Rescue on [Peri]Fractalus! 16k yields a nice-looking gradient Lucasfilm Games logo... ...but the mothership is corrupted. I didn’t let it play much further but did reboot and reseat several timed (no change). This one isn’t a real cartridge though. It an Ultimate Atari Cartridge for A8 systems. Even so... ...reinstalling the removed 32k to restore 48k makes it work. Looks like this really does need more than 16k even if the Atari 5200 version does not. Fantastic. To confirm, if I buy this, do you think it will fail at 16K but work at 48K? Same version? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F372333367994 Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Fantastic. To confirm, if I buy this, do you think it will fail at 16K but work at 48K? Same version? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F372333367994 Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Just tried it with 32k and it seems to work... Hmm... I don’t think a real Rescue on [Peri]Fractalus! cart would work on 16k if this one doesn’t unless the Ultimate Atari Cart somehow uses some of that 16k and breaks Ro[P]F!. I doubt that since there isn’t really any kind of memory management for the UAC to operate that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) I also have no idea if this ROM is from the XE version. Was there a non-XE version for A8 (400/800/XL)? I’ve got a lot of stuff on this cart. Anything else you’d like me to try? Edited October 3, 2018 by CZroe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 That's more than enough thank you! [emoji973]️[emoji106] Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglider01 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 Oh no you've done more than enough. Cheers! Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs [emoji973]️ http://youtube.com/perifractic [emoji973]️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZroe Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 (edited) That's more than enough thank you! ️[emoji106] Thanks!, Starglider aka ԹҽɾíƒɾɑϲԵíϲ's RҽԵɾ๏ RҽϲíԹҽs ️ http://youtube.com/perifractic ️ http://patreon.com/perifractic Just for kicks, I loaded up Brøderbund Choplifter from the Ultimate Atari Cartridge with only 16k. It works that way too, which is further evidence that the UAC was not using precious RAM and that Ro[P]F! is genuinely not going to work on 16k. I also had the ROM for Atari Choplifter, which didn’t work even with 48k (must require 64k). It looks like they did make cuts to get Ro[P]F! to work on 16k with the 5200 version, since it lacks the mothership intro. Edited October 3, 2018 by CZroe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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