_The Doctor__ Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 go into ultimate set up and turn off patched roms, sdx, and boot loaders. since almost everything that is protected looks for stock machines... you may need to tone down memory to 320, 128, or less as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 go into ultimate set up and turn off patched roms, sdx, and boot loaders. since almost everything that is protected looks for stock machines... you may need to tone down memory to 320, 128, or less as well That shouldn’t make any difference when you’ve got a standard DOS 2.5 disk in your D1: floppy and a standard .ATR in the D2: slot of your SDrive-Max, or vice versa. I did some additional tests of mine last night in fact. No dice using real floppies with my SDrive-Max on my 1088XEL, though I could use the built in SIO2PC functionality just fine. Conversely as soon as I pulled the power plug from the SDrive-Max, my floppy drives both responded as normal. The SIO2PC kept right on working. As I’ve said before, I’ve used the devices together in the past, so I don’t know what’s going on. I’ll try with a 1200XL this weekend and maybe an 800 too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) That shouldn’t make any difference when you’ve got a standard DOS 2.5 disk in your D1: floppy and a standard .ATR in the D2: slot of your SDrive-Max, or vice versa. I did some additional tests of mine last night in fact. No dice using real floppies with my SDrive-Max on my 1088XEL, though I could use the built in SIO2PC functionality just fine. Conversely as soon as I pulled the power plug from the SDrive-Max, my floppy drives both responded as normal. The SIO2PC kept right on working. As I’ve said before, I’ve used the devices together in the past, so I don’t know what’s going on. I’ll try with a 1200XL this weekend and maybe an 800 too. I guess it's a good thing the SDrive-Max I'm going to make is going with a rebuilt 800XL to a friend with no floppy drives...I'll make one for myself eventually too, but it will work fine for him with no possible conflicts if they exist with legacy hardware. Edited October 12, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) This is a process to determine what is not working with what, We have different hardware of different types that are not working. The process give all the individuals involved more detail and a clear idea of what each issue is. We have more than one issue at play possibly. 1. works with standard Atari and 1050 but not Indus at same time. 2. works with 1088XL and it's sio2pc but not real drives at same time. 3. does not appear to be working with ultimate 1mb and drives at same time. 4. issues of atr vs atx are only partially resolved with a persons miss-configuration issues. 5. sio2sd is not working w/ sdrive on at least one persons setup. 6. different choice of diodes appears to help in most cases. this may come down to the proper selection of diode types on ALL of these add on sio devices. BATxx vs 1n5xxx vs 1nxxxx. we may need isolation going in as well as out. the device may be 'tolerant' but not enduring in a sense requiring some resistance or other means to prevent slow degradation of it's abilities. It may well be a firmware fix is in order also. I am waiting on an assortment of diodes to come from CHINA... lately I've seen delivery times of a couple months or it gets lost or damaged. It used to be a couple weeks and perfectly fine. If someone wants to summarize this better and with more perfect detail, I'd appreciate it. as for everybody else... please share what is working with what and your diode choices on each device. we may well solve it that way before I can get real world results. If somebody else can do it, it's fine by me . The more people and observations working on it the better. So break out your diodes meters and scopes. Do a process of elimination and share what you find. Edited October 12, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Son of a biscuit! I attached the SDRIVE and 1050 in serial to my stock 800XL, set the 1050 as D1, loaded an ATR into D2 on the SDRVE, put a DOS 2.5 floppy into the 1050, and it booted right up! Once in DOS, I formatted a new floppy and then copied the ATR from D2 on the SDRIVE to the floppy in the 1050. Everything went without a hitch, exactly like it's supposed to do. In order to test if extended memory might be causing the issue, I then attached my SYS-CHECK (set only as a memory expansion) to the stock 800XL and repeated the entire process. Once again, everything went very smoothly. Using this configuration, the 1050 boots every time if D1 on the SDRIVE is set to <empty>. This is certainly a step in the right direction. Any thoughts on what the issue with the U1MB machine might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) interesting, the ultimate 1 meg is in the 1088 as well... something in common. Just because something shouldn't make a difference doesn't mean it won't make a difference.... I'd turn off all the goodies on the U1M like I said and give it a whirl.. Make sure not to run any funky os rom or cart dos etc. it could come down to firmware on one or the other or both.... still would be good to make sure the levels aren't stressing I/O of the Atari over time as well... Edited October 13, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Here's another data point: I just tested with my 1088XEL. With the SDrive-Max plugged in, neither of my floppy drives are recognized, whether powered on singularly or both together, with or without disk files in any of the ATR slots. As soon as I unplug the SDrive-Max, both work fine. This is regardless of the U1MB settings in the 1088XEL: with or without any extended memory, with or without the PBI BIOS enabled, with or without SpartaDOS X enabled. So I dug out my U1MB-equipped Ugly Duckling 1200XL and repeated the tests. Perhaps the built-in Sparkfun FTDI SIO2PC device is an issue? Nope. Same exact results. Well, perhaps the U1MB is a factor. So I dug out one of my bone-stock 48K 800 machines. Same exact results. With the SDrive-Max plugged in and powered on, no dice. With the device unplugged and off the SIO bus, my floppies both work as expected. So in my case at least, the type of Atari has no impact. The only thing that's changed for me since I built my unit is how it's powered: initially I had it powered off the SIO bus, but I wanted a way to turn it off and I haven't installed a switch, so I ended up disconnecting the internal SIO +5V line on my device and powering with an Arduino UNO wall-wart. I wonder if that has an impact? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Sounds like a plan, the external power method has been a point of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Sounds like a plan, the external power method has been a point of contention. Now that you mention it, I think that this might have been the first time that I DIDN'T use my external power cord for the SDRIVE, just the power from the SIO port itself. Could that have made a difference? I am going to have to do some more experimentation with the modded machine and turning off U1MB features and leaving the external power disconnected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) Nope. No matter what the setting or configuration, my SDRIVE/1050 combo and the U1MB system just don't seem to like each other. Edited October 13, 2018 by SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Now that you mention it, I think that this might have been the first time that I DIDN'T use my external power cord for the SDRIVE, just the power from the SIO port itself. You have a switch on your SDrive-MAX to choose between SIO and USB power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 You have a switch on your SDrive-MAX to choose between SIO and USB power? There is a switch but I have an external plug in power supply rather than using the USB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3. does not appear to be working with ultimate 1mb and drives at same time. After some testing, I think you can rule out the U1MB... 1050 boot D1 1050 copy from SDM D2 Indus boot D1 Diode Type Power Method Firmware 130XE stock Yes, empty SDM D1 Yes No 1N5819 SIO 1.0b 800XL U1MB Yes, empty SDM D1 Yes No 1N5819 SIO 1.0b 1200XL U1MB Yes, empty SDM D1 Yes Yes, but data corrupted 1N5819 SIO 1.0b 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) Nice, this is useful thanks for the info and we can build on it. 1050 boot D1 1050 copy from SDM D2 Indus boot D1 Diode Type Power Method 130XE stock Yes, empty SDM D1 Yes No 800XL U1MB Yes, empty SDM D1 Yes No 1200XL U1MB Yes, empty SDM D1 Yes Yes, but data corrupted 1088XEL Edited October 13, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Nice, this is useful thanks for the info and we can build on it. Good idea, added to table. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) So after earlier discussion about power supplies, I tried some more tests. This afternoon, I took my unit apart, verified all solder connections still look good (including to the 1N5819 diode I'm using), then reconnected the SIO +5V line and did some more tests. Initially I had the same results but later, I got some weirdness, which has me thinking more about some things _The Doctor_ has mentioned in the past: cabling. Let me explain ... Usually, my SIO chain is as follows: Atari --> Floppy #1 (Happy 1050) --> Floppy #2 (stock 1050) --> ICD P:R:Connection --> SDrive-MAX All of the cabling used is vintage, even the one I salvaged for the SDrive-MAX build. It had one end where the Molex-branded SIO plug had gotten crushed in a box decades ago, making it the perfect candidate to reuse. I did verify signal continuity all the way from end to end when I built my device, however, so I know that cable is fine. The others have never been tested as such, but everything works with the SDrive-MAX off the bus, so something is going on more than just signal continuity. So when I had no change, I next tried plugging the device into the back of Floppy #2 (which was powered off), though Floppy #1 was powered. I had an ATR loaded into the D2: slot of the SDrive-Max. Then, with all features except extended memory on my 10800XEL U1MB turned off except for extended memory, I was able to boot from the floppy disk in D1:, and still access the ATR loaded into the D2: slot of my SDrive-Max. However, after rebooting the XEL for more tests, this configuration stopped working, despite it having worked mere moments before - neither device was responding properly to SIO commands. But when I powered off my floppy drive, the SDrive-MAX started working again. Conversely, when I unplugged the SDrive-MAX, my floppy drives (I tested both this time) worked fine. I'm led to believe there's something else affecting the bus - capacitance of all the vintage cabling, maybe? I wonder if I replaced all my cables with newly-built units using shells from Lotharek, or hell, just buying a few new ones for my floppies and a half-cable for my SDrive-Max, if things might change? I'll probably experiment tomorrow with my floppies and P:R:Connection wired in different configurations and see what happens. Edited October 14, 2018 by DrVenkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) However, after rebooting the XEL for more tests, this configuration stopped working, despite it having worked mere moments before - neither device was responding properly to SIO commands. But when I powered off my floppy drive, the SDrive-MAX started working again. Conversely, when I unplugged the SDrive-MAX, my floppy drives (I tested both this time) worked fine. Hmm .. I may have had a similar experience with the chain only working intermittently. Halfway through my second disk format, the 1050 stopped altogether. I rebooted and had a similar problem and then rebooted a third time and met with success. I thought that maybe the trouble was with the 1050 itself so I took it apart and cleaned the drive head. It *was* a little bit dirty (I had just formatted and written to about 20 disks last week) and when I put it all back together I didn't get the error again so I figured that must have been the source of the problem. Now I am wondering if it may have been something else? Either way, I still couldn't get everything to properly communicate on the U1MB machine. Once or twice I actually got the 1050 to boot to DOS with the SDRIVE attached but couldn't get anything to work any further than that. Oh, I should add that I am using a mix of vintage, BEST, and Lotharek produced SIO cables and the SDRIVE has a new cable with a 3D printed connector. The cable that I used yesterday to run the 1050 to both XLs (bypassing the hub altogether) was a 6 ft. BEST produced one from who-knows-what year. Edited October 14, 2018 by SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Yesterday I used my SDrive Max with an 810 connected to the Incognito 800, stock 1200XL and a stock 130XE all with the same results. SDrive Max is powered by the USB jack through a 5v 2A wallwart and the diode is a 1n914 (same used on my SIO2WiFi which doesn't have an issue when using the 810). I have D1: on the SDrive Max set as Empty, but trying to boot the 810 is a no go. Really don't think it's a hardware issue, but rather a firmware bug... With the SDrive Max powered off, I booted a DOS Disk on the 810 then powered up the SDrive Max (D1: is empty), tried to get a directory listing on D1: and just got an error 138. When D1: is empty it's not really OFF as it should be... Looking into WinAVR and AVR Studio today... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) odd in that for some folks it seems to work with other drives... if it is acting like a powered on drive without a disk inserted that would be perfect emulation and should be corrupting sio device frames assigned to same number... The way to test this is to shut off drives 1-4 on sio2pc and set drives 5-8 with images and disks to copy to and from. now see how sdrive max atx gets along with those drives... or if you have a 5-8 modified floppy drive... same test... if this turns out to be the case then yes, a drive off button needs to be created. so we have a test method let's all give it a shot. some software did detect empty drive to know if disk changed, it would simply spin up asking for a disk to be insertted, once it detected the error it knew the old disk was out and then started it's attempt to read a new disk. I found it a little UN-nerving.... but it was effective and you didn't have to press any keys etc... Edited October 14, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Still no diodes here...yugh. I dont see any mention about if you guys are using HIAS hi-speed drivers and if you have cut away the usual,caps on the SIO ports of the Atari computers and FDD drives...? This might be an issue ? Also: if this does work OK wit a SIO2SD, we might have to take a look at how things are configured on the SIO bus of that device ? Couldnt there also be something hanging on the bus because of firmware ? Just shouting out in the wild Edited October 14, 2018 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 BREAKING NEWS! I just updated today to the current "Master" branch on Github, which includes the "debounce" fixes and whatever miscellaneous fixes were added about a month ago (per the file histories on Git). Connected as follows: Atari (1088XEL, with U1MB) --> Floppy #1 (Happy 1050) --> Floppy #2 (stock 1050) -->SDrive-MAX Everything seems to work, at least for reading files and directories. Haven't done any extensive R/W tests yet but the fact that my floppies aren't "locked out" of the bus by the SDrive-Max is a big deal. Even booting to the SDX command line with all options enabled on my 1088XEL (1088K memory, SDX enabled, high-speed PBI BIOS and IDE hard drive enbabled …) I can access both floppies as well as an ATR loaded into D3: on the SDrive-Max. Conversely, with Floppy #1 turned off and an ATR loaded into D1: in the SDrive-Max, I can still access files on Floppy #2, plus all the stuff on my CF hard drive on the XEL. So when we are discussing why stuff used to work but doesn't now, we can't exclude the firmware on the Arduino. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 BREAKING NEWS! You know, I probably should have noted that all my testing was with the 1.0b firmware... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Hmmm, 1.0b didn't fix it for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) You know, I probably should have noted that all my testing was with the 1.0b firmware... Well, further testing reveals all is not perfect. For instance, SDX's format utility fails when the SDrive-Max is on the bus. Both my floppy drives respond to the format command but at the end they fail writing the directory. And the RWTEST utility doesn't work right either (the DOS writing phase never seems to end …) Basic file copy from the SDrive-MAX to a floppy did work for me, though seemed to take much longer than I thought it should. So perhaps I need to grab that v1.0b branch and try again. Maybe tomorrow. My old orange cat just climbed on top of me and curled up so I'm not going anywhere for awhile … Edited October 14, 2018 by DrVenkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 Both my floppy drives respond to the format command but at the end they fail writing the directory. This sounds familiar. I got to this same point a couple of times with v0.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.