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CollectorVision Phoenix Kickstarter is now live!


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#26 Hannacek OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 4:28 PM

I wish CollectorVision all the best luck. That having been been said, I don't think you will find a 1,000 people to get to your $230,000 goal. There just aren't 1,000 people interested in ColecoVision who are active users on Atari Age and/or the facebook groups. If you remember the Edladden Kickstarter, that was successfully funded with 72 backers for $12,302. https://www.kickstar...rs-for-colecovi

 

How do you go from 72 to 1,000? Its not exactly the same project, but it appeals to the same target consumer. Even if you double or triple the 72, it won't get close to 1,000

 

I understand how economies of scale work, and you need to make a minimum number of units to drive the price down to the point where people will buy it. But that doesn't mean you will find  1,000 people to buy it. You can always try another kickstarter, but usually after a project fails, the second or third attempts are funded even less. 

 

I would like a modern gamepad controller Collectorvision says they might do after this project. 


Edited by Hannacek, Tue Oct 9, 2018 4:31 PM.


#27 malarrya OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:07 PM

I put in for one. The Phoenix system looks amazing and fulfills all the modding aspirations I had for my original console. I especially like that the SD Card Reader can be use to load ROMs and that it's expandable for future accessories. I hope one of those accessories makes it network/internet capable for online gaming, ColecoVision community interactions, music, and maybe other smart TV video-type functions.



#28 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:16 PM

I wish CollectorVision all the best luck. That having been been said, I don't think you will find a 1,000 people to get to your $230,000 goal. There just aren't 1,000 people interested in ColecoVision who are active users on Atari Age and/or the facebook groups. If you remember the Edladden Kickstarter, that was successfully funded with 72 backers for $12,302. https://www.kickstar...rs-for-colecovi

 

How do you go from 72 to 1,000? Its not exactly the same project, but it appeals to the same target consumer. Even if you double or triple the 72, it won't get close to 1,000

 

I understand how economies of scale work, and you need to make a minimum number of units to drive the price down to the point where people will buy it. But that doesn't mean you will find  1,000 people to buy it. You can always try another kickstarter, but usually after a project fails, the second or third attempts are funded even less. 

 

I would like a modern gamepad controller Collectorvision says they might do after this project. 

Somewhere around 1000 Super Game Modules have been sold and they are still in high demand. It is possible these people would want a brand new colecovision with F18A and SGM capabilities. No matter what people say, for $200 it is a great deal. On the CV Fan facebook page, some 450 people expressed interest in buying one at $200 and about 50 at $300. A significant number of collectors will be buying two, I am sure. That is the primarily English speaking population. There will be way over 72 backers by the end of today. Also, it may hit a lot of these people that are used to the $50 impulse garbage buys that this is way better.



#29 grips03 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:37 PM

I'm not sure its possible to do it for $200, price seems low to me.



#30 retroillucid OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 6:04 PM

I'm not sure its possible to do it for $200, price seems low to me.

 

We have carefully quote everything we need, yes it is indeed possible at $200 each

Remember, we've been working on this for more than 2 years

 



#31 Hannacek OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 6:48 PM

Somewhere around 1000 Super Game Modules have been sold and they are still in high demand. It is possible these people would want a brand new colecovision with F18A and SGM capabilities. No matter what people say, for $200 it is a great deal. On the CV Fan facebook page, some 450 people expressed interest in buying one at $200 and about 50 at $300. A significant number of collectors will be buying two, I am sure. That is the primarily English speaking population. There will be way over 72 backers by the end of today. Also, it may hit a lot of these people that are used to the $50 impulse garbage buys that this is way better.

 

I'm not sure of the exact figures, but they only make 100-200 Super Games modules a year, and maybe they only do a run of them every other year. It has taken them years to sell 1000. And they sold those 100-200 units with the premise that the pre-orders sell out instantly, so even if you don't really want it, you should buy it now and not regret it being sold out later. SGMs sell out instantly because some people want them, and others are scalpers that instantly put them on ebay for high prices. If people on ebay weren't paying the scalper prices, then scalpers wouldn't make the pre-orders sell out instantly. With this kickstarter, anyone can buy as many as they want, so scalpers have no reason to buy these.   Scalpers are part of the reason they sold so many SGMs.

 

There is a difference between saying you will buy something on facebook, and actually buying it. We will just have to wait until the end of the kickstarter, and see how many people buy it.

I think $200 is a low price considering CollectorVision isn't a big company that gets to negotiate lower prices on parts and manufacturing the same way companies like Atgames do. And Atgames has some of the worst quality products if you ever look at the pcb. If this is something you want, then you definitely get a lot of value for your $200. Personally I already have an Adam (which has composite video unmodded) and an SGM and an Atari Max SD cartridge, so I am not interested in this. I am also not interested in the F18A or HDMI output. But if you want all those things, $200 is a great price. On the flip side, how many people have an SGM or AtariMax SD Cart or F18A, and don't need another console that has those features? I assume some will want another console with all those features, and others will be happy with what they have.

 

The thing about Kickstarter is that people vote with their wallets, so we will see what happens. 


Edited by Hannacek, Tue Oct 9, 2018 6:51 PM.


#32 5-11under OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 6:53 PM

Personally, I don't need one, but it's a pretty good deal... includes F18A and SGM capabilities, and a bunch of games, too. Best of luck; I hope things go well with the project.



#33 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 7:13 PM

 

I'm not sure of the exact figures, but they only make 100-200 Super Games modules a year, and maybe they only do a run of them every other year. It has taken them years to sell 1000. And they sold those 100-200 units with the premise that the pre-orders sell out instantly, so even if you don't really want it, you should buy it now and not regret it being sold out later. SGMs sell out instantly because some people want them, and others are scalpers that instantly put them on ebay for high prices. If people on ebay weren't paying the scalper prices, then scalpers wouldn't make the pre-orders sell out instantly. With this kickstarter, anyone can buy as many as they want, so scalpers have no reason to buy these.   Scalpers are part of the reason they sold so many SGMs.

 

There is a difference between saying you will buy something on facebook, and actually buying it. We will just have to wait until the end of the kickstarter, and see how many people buy it.

I think $200 is a low price considering CollectorVision isn't a big company that gets to negotiate lower prices on parts and manufacturing the same way companies like Atgames do. And Atgames has some of the worst quality products if you ever look at the pcb. If this is something you want, then you definitely get a lot of value for your $200. Personally I already have an Adam (which has composite video unmodded) and an SGM and an Atari Max SD cartridge, so I am not interested in this. I am also not interested in the F18A or HDMI output. But if you want all those things, $200 is a great price. On the flip side, how many people have an SGM or AtariMax SD Cart or F18A, and don't need another console that has those features? I assume some will want another console with all those features, and others will be happy with what they have.

 

The thing about Kickstarter is that people vote with their wallets, so we will see what happens. 

 

I was in the fourth run. There were 500 SGMs made in the fourth run. There have been a total of 32 on eBay from that run. Fourteen of those have sold. Waferman still has 12 of them. Also, if the KS doesn't go through in the next 30 days, they may never get one or pay $300+ for it instead of $200.

 

Also, although a lot of people who express interest may not buy, there are also a lot of people who just lurk and only buy.

 

P.S. Totals 1st through 4th run were 200 + 200 + 200(+about 30) + 500

 

Edited after double-checking.



#34 imstarryeyed OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 7:28 PM

Somewhere around 1000 Super Game Modules have been sold and they are still in high demand. It is possible these people would want a brand new colecovision with F18A and SGM capabilities. No matter what people say, for $200 it is a great deal. On the CV Fan facebook page, some 450 people expressed interest in buying one at $200 and about 50 at $300. A significant number of collectors will be buying two, I am sure. That is the primarily English speaking population. There will be way over 72 backers by the end of today. Also, it may hit a lot of these people that are used to the $50 impulse garbage buys that this is way better.

 

 

Well I have to say I own a Super Game Module and a RAM upgraded Colecovision, the Kickstarter project really appeals to me because of the new stable hardware with SGM and F18A, I have been on that waiting list for a long time for the F18A and one day I am sure I will be able to get it.  In the end however I hate how unstable my system is and this unit seems to be the perfect match for everything I am looking for.  With the inclusion of the SNES and NTT support, it becomes the perfect modern replacement.

 

I encourage anyone here to consider this option and to box up your Colecovison and keep its value and use this for your day to day.



#35 JEFF31 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 9, 2018 9:10 PM

Hmm!

 

I've typed this reply over a long time of thinking.

 

 

A bunch of individuals have taken it upon themselves to 'create' a new coleovision unit at a 'large?' amount of expense (and time...)... and have put time in determining end cost...

 

They launch a kickstater campain and 'a lot' (most? of what I see from the community is ? negative!)   I paid $200 dollars for my first coleco in 83 and now for $300 dollars I can upgrade to the future!

 

WOW!  COOL.

 

For those 'downplaying' this - fine - your opinion - but I disagree.

 

I DO NOT REPLY to negative reply's - but please do so if you wish.  Free speech and all... I'm here to help the community'

I want this system to help preserve my old colecovision and its games...

 

 

Love the SD option...

 

 

Need more info on F18A stuff

 

 

Jeff

 

Again - you have your opinion I have mine... 'nuf' said...

 

Go Collectorvision

Go Opcode - Go Omni

Go Pixelboy

And all of you fine Coleco gamers programers (sorry - I can't remember you all!)



#36 youki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:19 AM

I wanted to pledge , but seems not possible to use paypal for that :(   

 

I try to limit the number of site where i let my credit card number..

 

i will follow the kickstart , if close to the end , i can see that my pledge could make the difference , i make an effort and pledge on the site.

 

but as many of you , i doubt you will reach what you ask for :(  . but  I really hope i will be wrong on that.

 

It would be pity to not see this console happens.



#37 AtariLeaf OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:12 AM

I'm hoping to save some pennies up and pledge toward the end. I too really hope this sees the light of day. I'm one of those who enjoy the colecovision but not dealing with the finicky hardware. Had I known a year ago that this had the potential to happen I would have held onto my CV collection. 



#38 eebuckeye OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:54 AM

This system is truly a great deal when you understand everything that comes with it (SGM, F18A, etc..) but some people just hear 'Colecovision for $200'? I read someone saying it was way too expensive and they just bought one at a garage sale for $20. Ugh..

#39 Ikrananka OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:16 AM

I wanted to pledge , but seems not possible to use paypal for that :(   

 

I try to limit the number of site where i let my credit card number..

 

I'm exactly the same, but in this case Kickstarter are a large and, so far, reputable company.  Just so you know, when submitting your pledge you can untick the box where it offers to save your credit card details.  So, in theory, this should mean that Kickstarter does not store your card details beyond this campaign.  Also, don't forget that your card should be protected against fraud by your credit card company.



#40 Hannacek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:23 AM

Why is stating an opinion considered being negative and being a hater? I hope the goal is reached, while at the same time I have the opinion that I think the $230,000 goal is unlikely to be reached in 30 days.

If you want all the features this product offers, $200 is a reasonable price. But having said that, a lot of people will just look at $200 and decide it is too much. It is not being negative or a hater to have the opinion that $200 is too high a price for many people. I understand that $200 is actually a pretty low price for a small production run consumer electronic, but a lot of people won't understand or take the time to realize big companies like Sony or Samsung can mass manufacture things at low prices because they are such large companies. 


Edited by Hannacek, Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:25 AM.


#41 NIAD OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:30 AM

This Kickstarter info needs to be cross posted to numerous other subforums on here as well, such as the MarketPlace, Classic Gaming and others were future expansion modules would support said systems.

#42 Dr Manhattan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:52 AM

I think I'm going to back this project at some point. I really want this console to succeed. It's a great value for $200. Games, hardware upgrades, etc, you definitely get a lot of bang for your buck. I also respect the team behind this project. To put it bluntly I think they've really got their stuff together. I trust them to make a great product. 

 

My only reservation is that I wish this unit also supported AV out. There's some of us who would still like to play this console on our CRT monitors. 



#43 Bmack36 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:58 AM

I think I'm going to back this project at some point. I really want this console to succeed. It's a great value for $200. Games, hardware upgrades, etc, you definitely get a lot of bang for your buck. I also respect the team behind this project. To put it bluntly I think they've really got their stuff together. I trust them to make a great product. 

 

My only reservation is that I wish this unit also supported AV out. There's some of us who would still like to play this console on our CRT monitors. 

We do plan on releasing an analog video/sound module that plugs into the expansion port.



#44 dj_convoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:11 AM

The $200+ doesn't really phase me (we essentially knew what that was going to be the price, and it seems somewhat reasonable for what you get)... I'm more concerned about the goal and the fact that 1100+ people will need to buy this. I just don't know if there's that strong a market.

 

I'd sort of like to back this (after all, it actually exists! That puts this about 10 miles above everything else we see, and I appreciate that the kerfuffle with Opcode was solved), but I'm not sure I'm in the market for something like this now, and I don't feel like dropping 200 bucks to futureproof myself. I wish this project success, but the goal just seems unrealistic, IMO. No hating (and can we please get off the idea that skepticism or not wanting or being able to support something is "hate?"), just an opinion. 



#45 digress OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:19 AM

I just backed the system. I want to remind everyone that you are not charged just for backing. Your card is not charged unless the funding is successful. There isn't any risk up front.

 

I would like to purchase 3-4 boards in the future to place in colecovision shells that I have that are no longer working. Consider adding that as an option to buy the naked board.


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#46 imstarryeyed OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:43 AM

We do plan on releasing an analog video/sound module that plugs into the expansion port.

 

This news is awesome to me, I too am part of the CRT Master Race believers and prefer my CRT to HD Flatscreen.  I already backed the project but this is just awesome news.. I also give Collectorvision lots of credit for making an expansion port and making more options that use it!

 

Collectorvision can you also document and diagram the expansion port in the manual for people who wish to build expansions and interfaces for the future?  

 

I love the idea of a system that is open enough for people to create devices for ..

 

I think Digress' idea of bareboards sounds good too.  Can these boards fit into classic Colecovision shells?

 

Will amps on the power supply be an issue for expansion?  Quite often in older systems power supplies needed to be upgraded if expansions were added.


Edited by imstarryeyed, Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:50 AM.


#47 digress OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:52 AM

At worse I would make a mounting bracket like fitting a ssd hardrive into a slot made for something bigger. so mount the board onto a board that then mounts into the coleco traditional shell.

 

 

This news is awesome to me, I too am part of the CRT Master Race believers and prefer my CRT to HD Flatscreen.  I already backed the project but this is just awesome news.. I also give Collectorvision lots of credit for making an expansion port and making more options that use it!

 

Collectorvision can you also document and diagram the expansion port in the manual for people who wish to build expansions and interfaces for the future?  

 

I love the idea of a system that is open enough for people to create devices for ..

 

I think Digress' idea of bareboards sounds good too.  Can these boards fit into classic Colecovision shells?

 

Will amps on the power supply be an issue for expansion?  Quite often in older systems power supplies needed to be upgraded if expansions were added.



#48 Pixelboy ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:55 AM

Okay, so I've been monitoring this Kickstarter campaign over the last 24 hours, and trying to wrap my head around the "apparent realities" of it. So if I understand the situation correctly, the $232K target is based on the need to produce and sell at least 1000 units, in order to bring the cost down to 200$ per unit? If this is the case, then this Kickstarter strategy is not the correct one, in my humble opinion.

To reach the magic number of 1000 units, the main goal should be to make this console available at GameStop, EB-Games, and any other outlets with several accessible locations across North-America. Amazon, eBay and other online outlets also deserve serious consideration in the marketing strategy. The Kickstarter angle should only be used to, well, kick-start the project's development: You gather money from CV fans to finance the development of the injection mold for the outer console casing, then you make a few more prototypes with the final casing, which you can show off at any opportunity (retrogaming conventions, meetings with sales representatives of GameStop and EB-Games, etc.). That's pretty much "phase 1" of the entire project, where you get to dip your toes in the lake and figure out the actual demand for this FPGA console. With the millions of people living in North-America today, I'm sure you can find 1000 customers who will purchase this machine, but certainly not in the span of a single month. Reaching the milestone of 1000 units sold is going to be a long-winded effort.

So anyway, "phase 2" is finding money to purchase the "priority components", which are the components that may become unavailable just a few years from now. I'm mostly thinking of the Spartan FPGA when I say this, but there are other components too, like the 30-pin cartridge port or the Super-NES controller connector, which may be relatively easy to source now, but may become harder to find in barely two years. The idea is to have a good stock of those master components, so you can be sure to meet your supply goals in the foreseeable future. I'm really not sure where the funding for this second phase could come from, using Kickstarter again may not be a good idea... This is bound to be the most difficult step.

From there, it's all about production, packaging, retail channeling and visibility, and you keep at it until all 1000 units have been sold. I wonder if it would be possible to release some complete-in-box repros of such classics as Venture, Time Pilot, Roc 'n Rope, etc. just to give people something to buy along with the Phoenix. Homebrews are a good selling point too, of course.

The point I'm trying to make is that keeping the 200$ pricetag target is doable, but only over an extended period of time, to give all the potential buyers time to discover the product and make it available to them when they're ready to buy it. In parallel, some good uses for the keyboard connector and the SD card slot should be devised and advertised, like the MSX core, and other FPGA cores. If I was an active participant in the project, I would also see if the controllers from AtGames' ColecoVision Flashback could be used on the Phoenix. They're not the best controllers ever, but they're relatively brand new compared to the old original Coleco controllers, so that's a plus, especially for casual gamers who are not going to play with their Phoenix system often.

As a side note, I've never pledged any money on any Kickstarter project before, and up until now, I assumed they took Paypal, which they apparently do not. I pride myself on not having a credit card (I understand that some may find this stance debatable) and I'm certainly not going to get one just for this. So I guess I won't be participating in the Kickstarter campaign, even though I want to.

Finally, I'd like to point out that the 230,000$ target displayed at the top of the Kickstarter page is very likely to illicit negative reactions. Many people who could be interested in the Phoenix are just going to pass on it because they will assume that the target won't be met anyway, especially in just a month. Like I said in the beginning of this post, this Kickstarter strategy is unlikely to pay off.

#49 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:15 AM

I think I'm going to back this project at some point. I really want this console to succeed. It's a great value for $200. Games, hardware upgrades, etc, you definitely get a lot of bang for your buck. I also respect the team behind this project. To put it bluntly I think they've really got their stuff together. I trust them to make a great product. 

 

My only reservation is that I wish this unit also supported AV out. There's some of us who would still like to play this console on our CRT monitors. 

Something like this?

https://www.amazon.c...0e-892466a53ea7



#50 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:35 AM

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