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XF551 Mixed-Original Parts Bare PCBs


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#126 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:21 PM

I have the drive set to drive 2, when I attempt to format drive two, the drive spins up and appears to be trying to perform an action and I get an error 144.

 

But what is the disk drive itself set for.  Most PC 3.5 disk drives are set for Drive 1 on the drive pcb itself.  They have to be set for Drive 0.  If you are lucky the disk drive has actual jumpers,  Otherwise you will have to locate the null resistor, desolder it and move it to the correct location to make the drive believe it is now Drive 0. 



#127 manterola OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:47 PM

 We are talking about this kind of drive selection: in the floppy 3.5 mechanism it self, not the Atari drive selection.

 

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#128 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:55 PM

Why would I want it to be drive 0,I don't have any 3.5 diskettes that are bootable?

#129 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:19 PM

the internal drive select is for the controller board, the external select if for the Atari sio ID. they are two different critters


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:20 PM.


#130 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:20 PM

Why would I want it to be drive 0,I don't have any 3.5 diskettes that are bootable?

 

The drive id on the 3.5" disk drive itself has nothing to do with the Atari.  Remember you are trying to connect a circuit that was designed for the PC world to a different computing system.  Without going too much into ancient history of PC floppy drives and their standardization all 3.5" drives made in recent times are by default set at Drive 1.  In order for the Atari to see that drive it has to be set as Drive 0.

 

What is the make and model of 3.5" floppy drive you are using?


Edited by Dropcheck, Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:22 PM.


#131 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:53 PM

This drive has a 4 position switch on the side that shows a 0 on one end and a 3 on the other. I would suspect that it could be assigned as drive 1-4 or 0-3. When I place the switch in position 0 and set the Atari switch to drive 1. The drive attempts to boot and says BOOT?err16 on the screen. If I set the Atari switch to drive2, and a 5.25 drive as drive 1 when I attempt to read the directory or to format the disk, I get a few slow beeps for several seconds and then error 144.

#132 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:55 PM

If the switch on the 3.5 is set to anything other that zero, the drive does not respond at all and the disk never spins up and the light does not come on except briefly at power on.

#133 Mathy ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:09 PM

Hello hueyjones40

 

Not sure if it helps, but there is only one MOTOR ON signal on the flat cable that connects a standard floppy drive (3.5" or 5.25") to the hardware controlling it.  Meaning the motor probably spins if any of the four possible drive numbers is selected by the controlling hardware.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#134 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:23 PM

okay this is becoming a muddle....

 

so lets' try this...

when you set another complete 1050 or whatever to SIO drive 1, and the other complete new board drive set as SIO drive 2, you are saying it's interfering with the first drive?

 

if that is the case you need to double check your handy work on the new board drive...

 

one drive per controller board. small steps...


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:25 PM.


#135 kheller2 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:20 PM

This drive has a 4 position switch on the side that shows a 0 on one end and a 3 on the other. I would suspect that it could be assigned as drive 1-4 or 0-3. When I place the switch in position 0 and set the Atari switch to drive 1. The drive attempts to boot and says BOOT?err16 on the screen. If I set the Atari switch to drive2, and a 5.25 drive as drive 1 when I attempt to read the directory or to format the disk, I get a few slow beeps for several seconds and then error 144.


What DOS are you booting the 5.25 from? You won’t be able to read anything off the 3.5 until it’s properly formatted (and I worry a bit if that floppy was formatted in a HD drive).

#136 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:44 PM

When the 1050 is drive 1 and the 3.5 is drive 2,the 1050 works perfectly. I boot MYDOS 4.3 then I try to read the directory of D2. The 3.5 spins makes some slow beeps as if the drive is trying to read a disk. After several seconds I get ERROR 144. The same thing happens when I attempt to format D2. I am not using a new board, I wanted to make sure I had a good 3.5 before I tried it on a new board. Tomorrow I plan to open up my PC and see if there is a way to hook up a 3.5. If so I could maybe test the 3.5.

#137 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:27 PM

??? what pcb are you using with the 3.5 and what rom?

please share the make and model of the 3.5 inch drive... it should be a 720k and below drive not a 1.414 drive


Edited by _The Doctor__, Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:29 PM.


#138 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:18 PM

If the switch on the 3.5 is set to anything other that zero, the drive does not respond at all and the disk never spins up and the light does not come on except briefly at power on.

This is exactly what we are saying.  The 3.5 needs to be on zero. 

 

Now we may have multiple problems here.  We need to start eliminating variables. 

 

If you can let's first start with a back step.  If you have an good XF551 compatible 5.25 disk drive and can connect it to the 'new' XF551 board.  Change out the eprom as well.  See if it works normally.

 

If it does then the pcb is good.  If not then the problem is with the pcb. 

 

Let us know what happens. 



#139 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:52 PM

??? what pcb are you using with the 3.5 and what rom?

please share the make and model of the 3.5 inch drive... it should be a 720k and below drive not a 1.414 drive

Some 1.44MB 3.5" mechanisms will work with the XF551. When I purchased a CSS 3.5" mod for the XF551(early 90's) it came with a Sony 1.44MB mechanism that works when used with 720KB 3.5" discs, the ones that do not have the extra hole indicating HD.

 

It is also supposed to be possible to use 1.44MB media by wiping them with a bulk eraser and covering/plugging the HD sensor hole(or other method of disabling HD media recognition).



#140 Mathy ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:12 PM

Hello Bill

 

I tried using 1.44 MB disks on a 720 drive.  No luck.  Not sure if it looked like it worked and then didn't or if it was a no-go from the get go, but it just didn't work.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#141 BillC OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 PM



Hello Bill

 

I tried using 1.44 MB disks on a 720 drive.  No luck.  Not sure if it looked like it worked and then didn't or if it was a no-go from the get go, but it just didn't work.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

According to an article I found 1.44MB media needs to be demagnetized by a bulk eraser before they can be formatted at 720KB.

 

Depending on the age of the mechanism density can also be set either 720KB or 1.44MB by switch/jumper, or automatically by the HD sensor.

 

Later 3.5" mechanisms may also have dropped support for 720KB media as a cost cutting measure, eliminating the sensor for HD media recognition and configuring the mechanism to operate only in HD mode. I did say my 1.44MB Sony mechanism is from the early 90's.

 

In IBM-compatible PCs, the three densities of ​12-inch floppy disks are backwards-compatible: higher density drives can read, write and format lower density media. It is also possible to format a disk at a lower density than it was intended for, but only if the disk is first thoroughly demagnetized with a bulk eraser, as the high density format is magnetically stronger and will prevent the disk from working in lower density modes.


Edited by BillC, Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:19 PM.


#142 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:00 PM

Some 1.44MB 3.5" mechanisms will work with the XF551. When I purchased a CSS 3.5" mod for the XF551(early 90's) it came with a Sony 1.44MB mechanism that works when used with 720KB 3.5" discs, the ones that do not have the extra hole indicating HD.

 

It is also supposed to be possible to use 1.44MB media by wiping them with a bulk eraser and covering/plugging the HD sensor hole(or other method of disabling HD media recognition).

very true... but for practical purposes when troubleshooting a problem- let's stick with what most folks can get up and running without pulling their hair out. We can go for the gold ring after it works with the standard stuff. One less thing to deal with so to speak. (Sounds like a post we've made previously about bulk erasing etc.)



#143 gozar OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:01 PM

It is also supposed to be possible to use 1.44MB media by wiping them with a bulk eraser and covering/plugging the HD sensor hole(or other method of disabling HD media recognition).

 

Yeah, don't do that. 1.44MB disks have a different coating than 720KB disks, and will be very unreliable as a 720KB disk.



#144 kheller2 ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:41 PM

 

Yeah, don't do that. 1.44MB disks have a different coating than 720KB disks, and will be very unreliable as a 720KB disk.

 

Wouldn't you also run into similar issues that 1.2 vs 360 5.25 disks have with the RW head power and track width?

 

All this reminds me of the evil I went through with 2.88 3.5" floppy drives... EVIL!!!



#145 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 2, 2019 1:13 PM

I finally finished one of the bare boards. It almost works perfectly. I can only get it to work as drive 1 or drive 2. When I first tested it, it would only work as drive 1 so I must have a bad selector switch or a bad solder joint on the selector switch installation. Going to have to look at it with a magnifying glass.

#146 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 3, 2019 3:15 PM

This is my cardedge adapter.

Cardedge Adapter 2.jpg Cardedge Adapter.jpg

Edited by hueyjones70, Wed Apr 3, 2019 3:16 PM.


#147 1050 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 4, 2019 1:41 AM

I see an issue with 2nd picture. Even row in the back
is bottom row but if you'll look at a drive, the
bottom row is odd. This one has been put together
wrong or could have been made where the back row was
the odd one.

It can be fixed by unsoldering the IDE socket and
mounting it from the other side of the board. Can
you follow that? It has to make sense to you in
other words.

#148 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 4, 2019 7:21 PM

That could explain some things.

#149 hueyjones70 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 4, 2019 7:23 PM

Are the 74LS38N and 74LS14N compatible with the 74LS38P and 74LS14P?

#150 1050 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 4, 2019 11:44 PM

Yes, generally speaking.

Final proof will be the datasheet by the maker of the
chip which often has his logo on it for that determination.
And probably not worth the effort of even looking for those.

Once you have the datasheet for both and do some scouring
you often learn that they are the exactly the same. P
means plastic case in one and N means the same thing
in other house of manufacture. Perhaps - I didn't look
myself. Same basic number is the same chip across the
board usually - but there is always that 1% chance that
there is a devil in the details.

A sense of humor eh? And I can assume you still have
some hair left unpulled? Well done.

What it doesn't explain is how the drive responded at
ALL. You tell me how that happened and we'll both know.
But I can spot a left handed shovel every time and that
one right there just ain't right.

It has another row. If they had placed the higher cost
IDE 90 degree jack that has the extra length to reach
the same spot that this one connects to the drive with,
it would work perfect. So they cheaped out with the
short jack while they made the board backwards with the
wrong jack pinout at the far end to use the cheap part.




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