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My Apple IIGS just came in the mail, but I've got questions

Apple IIGS

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#1 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:50 PM

Ok, so here's the story. I bought an untested Apple IIGS Woz edition for a great price. I also ordered separately a A9M0330 keyboard and cord, mouse, and both floppy drives ( A9M0106 and A9M0107). It didn't come with anything but a power cord. I immediately took the cover off. It looks very clean. The original battery is still there, but no corrosion (I'll remove it as soon as the new updated battery replacement kit arrives). There was no memory expansion card, so I just ordered one for $10.

 

So I hooked up the keyboard, mouse, and drive, and connected it to a PVM monitor. I hear beeps and it says Apple IIGS, ROM Version 01. The screen then switches into Check Startup Device. I'm assuming it's looking for a disk of some sort, but I don't have any. I did put in an Atari ST disk just to see if I'd get an error message, but it just ejected it. Attached are three pics (if you see anything that looks off, let me know). So, now for some questions!

 

1) Isn't the OS built-in like the ST's? If yes, how do I boot to it? Can I do anything at all without disks? I might have blank disks lying around somewhere.

 

2) I've pressed everything on the keyboard and nothing happens. Is there a way to test the keyboard without any disks, just so I know that it's working?

 

3) Since it starts up without any real error messages, do you guys think that my IIGS itself is probably good?

 

4) Anything else that I need immediately?

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Edited by Zap!, Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:05 PM.


#2 majestyx OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:37 PM

It's been almost 30 years since I physically owned an Apple ][, but here's what I remember. Note that I had a //c and a Laser 128EX back in the day.

 

1) You'll need an OS disk - ProDOS will be the one you'll want for the IIGS, assuming there is no hard drive.

2) Once you have a keyboard, press Ctrl-Reset (both at the same time). This should dump you to a command line, but I'm not 100% that's the case on a IIGS. It was for previous Apple ][s. There will be no DOS commands, but you can use AppleSoft BASIC (no saving of programs obviously) and type on the keyboard. Open Apple-Ctrl-Reset reboots the machine.

3) I believe if you press Closed Apple-Ctrl-Reset, a self-test will run. Pressing both Open & Closed Apple-Ctrl-Reset will run a different self-test.

 

Again, that's what I can remember, so if I'm wrong, blame it on my failing memory!  ;)

 

After posting this, I found the following link to a manual: http://www.classiccm...ner's Guide.pdf

 

It's not OCR, simply pretty nice looking scans.

 

Also, a great resource for all things Apple ][ (which you may already be aware of, but figured it was worth mentioning): ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/


Edited by majestyx, Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:51 PM.


#3 Aunty Entity OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:16 PM

ProDOS.. I don't think it looks like it'll have memory for GSOS, a rom1 with no ram expansion isn't going to have much.

 

I'd say its looking ok otherwise.



#4 Polymorph OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:41 PM

Your IIgs is operating as expected. The IIgs is not like the Atari ST, it does not have an OS in ROM, but rather it has some toolsets in ROM that can be used by the OS. The message you are seeing is the result of not finding any bootable media.

 

As the other responders have noted, you will need a floppy disk to boot (either 5.25" or 3.5"). The Apple IIgs can boot both 16 bit System Software (GS/OS) and 99.9% of all older 8 bit Apple II software/games. 8 bit titles are pretty much exclusively distributed on 5.25" floppies (with some exceptions). There are a very small number of 8 bit titles that don't work due to incompatibilities with the IIgs - they are so few though that you are probably unlikely to hit them for some time.

 

After starting the machine, pressing CTRL-Reset (at the same time) will get you to an Applesoft prompt exactly like the older 8 bit Apple II's. OpenApple-CTRL-Reset will reboot the machine and OpenApple-Option-CTRL-Reset will start the self test (which should give you some confidence that everything is OK).

 

If you don't have access to a floppy, you can bootstrap from bare metal using ADTPro and transfer a boot disk to get you going. To do this you will need an appropriate serial cable connected to a modern PC. There are detailed instructions on the ADTPro site for doing this.

 

You may want to consider getting a flash storage device like a CFFA3000 or a Floppy Emu and a larger RAM card (4Mb or 8Mb is highly recommended) if you want to explore the 16 bit world.

 

A great resource for the IIgs is the What is The Apple IIgs site. This should give you an idea of what is available.

 

The IIgs is a great machine (my favourite) and I'm sure once you get up and running you'll learn to appreciate it too.

 

 



#5 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:07 PM

Polymorph basically answered all your questions really well, but just to clarify, after pressing ctrl-reset, you can then hit every key on the keyboard yourself if you want to test it that way. But that's really about all you can do until you get some kind of storage.



#6 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:13 PM

Ctrl-Reset? Still works fine on the GS.

 

ProDOS? Only needs 64K, you got 512K stock on the ROM 1.

 

ProDOS-16 will run fine, and GS/OS 4 (Arkanoid 2 ran on GS/OS 4, and I've played that on a stock ROM 1).  You'll need more for GS/OS 5 or 6 though.



#7 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 12:06 AM

Thanks for the help guys! Unfortunately, my keyboard appears to be broken. I've tried the commands listed above, but it's still the same screen (check startup device). I have disk drives, but no software yet to test. Does anyone have any kind of software (copies and shareware are fine, system software, anything really) they want to sell me so I can test the keyboard and mouse?I don't have a spare keyboard to test.



#8 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 9:34 AM

If you have a keyboard from an old Mac (with the same ADB connection) it will work.  I've been using Mac keyboards with my IIgs since I got it.  Also, try replacing your cable, sometimes they go bad, and on most Mac/IIgs compatible keyboards it should be interchangeable.



#9 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 8:45 PM

If you have a keyboard from an old Mac (with the same ADB connection) it will work.  I've been using Mac keyboards with my IIgs since I got it.  Also, try replacing your cable, sometimes they go bad, and on most Mac/IIgs compatible keyboards it should be interchangeable.

 

I wish I did, but I've never had anything with an ADB, as I was mainly into Ataris. I just ordered another cable though, as one of the pins just broke off.



#10 H454 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2018 4:25 AM

 

I wish I did, but I've never had anything with an ADB, as I was mainly into Ataris. I just ordered another cable though, as one of the pins just broke off.

 

S-video cables and ABD are same mini din 4 connector and are fully pin compatible.

If you are in any thrift shop, just look for the area with power adapter and cables. I don't think I've been to a thrift store and not seen an s-video cable.



#11 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2018 7:49 AM

 

S-video cables and ABD are same mini din 4 connector and are fully pin compatible.

If you are in any thrift shop, just look for the area with power adapter and cables. I don't think I've been to a thrift store and not seen an s-video cable.

 

Really? I thought the internals were different, because someone over on the IIGS Facebook page said that you can fry the RFI input. I actually have S-Video cables lying around, but the new cable comes Monday anyway.



#12 H454 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2018 10:43 PM

 

Really? I thought the internals were different, because someone over on the IIGS Facebook page said that you can fry the RFI input. I actually have S-Video cables lying around, but the new cable comes Monday anyway.

 

I have no idea what that FB person means by RFI input. There are only two real differences between an apple keyboard cable and an s-video cable.

The apple is coiled and most S-video cables will have better shielding due to that part that they are for analog video.

 

But if you get bored of dealing with ADB keyboards / mice and want to use modern USB hardware - Big mess o wires make an ADB to USB adapter called the "Wombat" for about $50.

Works with any apple product that use ADB (like 90's macs and IIGS), It also two- way. Meaning you can also use an Apple ADB keyboard with just about any computer with an USB port.

https://www.bigmesso...uct/usb-wombat/

And the "ADB" cable he sell is just a black svideo cable.

https://www.bigmesso...adb-cable-3-ft/



#13 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2018 11:00 PM

 

I have no idea what that FB person means by RFI input. There are only two real differences between an apple keyboard cable and an s-video cable.

The apple is coiled and most S-video cables will have better shielding due to that part that they are for analog video.

 

But if you get bored of dealing with ADB keyboards / mice and want to use modern USB hardware - Big mess o wires make an ADB to USB adapter called the "Wombat" for about $50.

Works with any apple product that use ADB (like 90's macs and IIGS), It also two- way. Meaning you can also use an Apple ADB keyboard with just about any computer with an USB port.

https://www.bigmesso...uct/usb-wombat/

And the "ADB" cable he sell is just a black svideo cable.

https://www.bigmesso...adb-cable-3-ft/

 

Thanks for the info! Like I said, I'm new so I had no idea about RFI's or whatever that was. My old S-Video cable is burred somewhere. I would dig it out of the closet or drawers, but the new ADB cable will arrive Monday anyway.

 

That Wombat looks really cool. Thanks for the link!



#14 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Nov 3, 2018 11:06 PM

The battery looks remarkable for its age, with no leaks or corrosion at all. It's only a matter of time though, so I'll be changing it with this.

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#15 rpiguy9907 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 5, 2018 11:01 AM

I had the same "entry barrier" that you have had. I got my IIgs and had no idea how to operate it. Once you drop to AppleSoft you can at least type in some games :-)



#16 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 5, 2018 9:28 PM

OpenApple-CTRL-Reset will reboot the machine and OpenApple-Option-CTRL-Reset will start the self test (which should give you some confidence that everything is OK).

 

One thing that confuses me. I've been reading and keep reading posts about "open." Does that mean hold down that particular button while pressing the other ones? Here too it's talked about.

 

http://www.vcfed.org...hp/t-12535.html

 

 

Ctrl-openapple-esc brings up the control panel.

 

Or does "openapple" simply mean the Apple button (third key from the bottom left)?


Edited by Zap!, Mon Nov 5, 2018 9:29 PM.


#17 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 5, 2018 10:53 PM

Scratch that last post, I now know it means the Apple button. Anyway, a few updates:

 

1) I took out the old battery and replaced it with a new one with case. Despite the date saying 09-86, it was clean as a whistle with no corrosion!

 

2) The new ADB cable came in the mail. No difference. The same screens comes up no matter what I press. So we can rule out the ADB cable being at fault. At this point, it's either the keyboard or the computer itself.

 

3) I re-soldered the ADB pins on the keyboard. Still nothing.

 

4)  I ordered an Apple IIGS ROM 01 (ver 6.0.1) Boot System Disk. It comes either tomorrow or Wednesday. This will at least help me see a screen, assuming my floppy drive works. I can also test my mouse. If it works and the keyboard doesn't, then it's definitely a bad keyboard. If neither work, then the ADB on the IIGS is at fault.

 

5) Here's the big one: I ordered a CFFA3000! This is what I really can't wait for, but it'll probably be Christmas before it comes. :)

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Edited by Zap!, Mon Nov 5, 2018 10:54 PM.


#18 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 6, 2018 4:45 AM

Open Apple is so-called because the Option key used to be a filled-in apple called Solid Apple or Closed Apple.

 

I think in the Mac world it's called Command.



#19 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 6, 2018 5:26 PM

The ROM 01 (ver 6.0.1) Boot System Disk came in the mail today. The good news is that the floppy drive appears to be working. The bad news is that I get a $0201 error when it finishes loading.

 

BTW, I added a RAM board. It's only 256k, but more RAM is coming Thursday (bringing it to 1 meg). Could lack of RAM be the problem?

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#20 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 6, 2018 10:43 PM

For GS/OS 6.0.1?  Quite probably.



#21 Polymorph OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 6, 2018 10:45 PM

The ROM 01 (ver 6.0.1) Boot System Disk came in the mail today. The good news is that the floppy drive appears to be working. The bad news is that I get a $0201 error when it finishes loading.

 

BTW, I added a RAM board. It's only 256k, but more RAM is coming Thursday (bringing it to 1 meg). Could lack of RAM be the problem?

 

Lack of RAM is definitely the problem here. Even 1Mb is tight for running System Software 6.0.1 - you can do it, but don't expect to be able to add many extensions. You may even have to hold the shift key while booting (known as shift-booting) to stop any extensions from loading.

 

As I mentioned before, I highly recommend 4Mb as a miniumum if you would like to be able to run 16 bit software and not run into problems.

 

Something like this should do the trick:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401095297373

 

Did you manage to get your keyboard working?



#22 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 7, 2018 1:00 PM

 

Lack of RAM is definitely the problem here. Even 1Mb is tight for running System Software 6.0.1 - you can do it, but don't expect to be able to add many extensions. You may even have to hold the shift key while booting (known as shift-booting) to stop any extensions from loading.

 

As I mentioned before, I highly recommend 4Mb as a miniumum if you would like to be able to run 16 bit software and not run into problems.

 

Something like this should do the trick:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401095297373

 

Did you manage to get your keyboard working?

 

Thanks. I'm hearing conflicting opinions on running 6.0.1. Someone on the FB Group said it won't run unless you have a minimum of 2mb of RAM. I guess we'll find out tomorrow. If not, I'll have to order that.

 

As for the keyboard, nope. I cleaned it and even re-soldered the ADB (on the keyboard). Nothing. Using the arrow keys and return key in that "lack of RAM" error message still gets me nothing. I ordered a cheap dirty keyboard that is tested working. That's coming Friday. If that doesn't work, I'm in trouble.



#23 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 7, 2018 3:42 PM

Pretty sure I've run GS/OS 6 on 1.25 MB.



#24 Aunty Entity OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Nov 7, 2018 4:41 PM

6.0.1 used to run in 1.25 for me.. so I think you're right there, but anything under 1 is going to be a problem.



#25 Zap! ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 8, 2018 9:53 PM

Major update: the keyboard arrived a day early. Plugged it in and it works! I got into the control panel right away. At least I know my IIGS is (seemingly) fully operational without any problems. Now, can't wait to try with more RAM and the CFFA3000 when it arrives!





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