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RAMDisk issues (ROS/CFG/BASIC)


Opry99er

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Over the weekend, I was able to get my RAMDisk operational by re-seating a chip here and there and acquiring fresh copies of ROS/CFG (v8.34). It was a lot of fun working with the HRD after having been without for many years, and I got very used to having the comfort and ease-of-use very quickly.

 

Fast forward to late last night... I was unable to use the RAMDisk to save and load BASIC programs. In addition to that, my ROS title screen was no longer available, and if I had the card set to AutoStart, it locked up my computer in an endless blue screen. This led me to believe my ROS was corrupted. I then re-loaded, only to discover that the RAMDisk was recognized perfectly well in CFG, and the card lit up as was expected. All my settings were still saved in the card, and everything looked to be normal on the surface.

 

I could only assume that the configuration was being stored in the card properly, but that I was unable to access the RAM. I made a short video which I posted below. Forgive the quality, as I was streaming a Live video to YouTube, and my connection here in my war room isn't the best.

 

The blue screen is a blatant indicator that I've got a corrupt DSR... But the card is still lighting up as it should during accesses, and it seems to be retaining the configuration information. So at this point, I'm a bit lost.

 

To give as much information as I can, my particular card is a 1988 384K RAMDisk produced by "Midwest Engineering Consultants".

 

From my brief conversations with InsaneMultitasker, I am beginning to understand that some versions of the RAMDisks which were created might have patches or "fixes" available to correct potential design flaws or the like. I am unaware of any issues with this particular card, and I have tried searching back through some of the magazines I have that talk about the different versions of the HRD, but have found nothing on this card.

 

Any thoughts or memories would be greatly appreciated.

 

My next steps are as follows:

 

1) Remove the RAM chip that houses ROS (to disconnect it from the battery, rendering it "wiped")

2) Reload a fresh virgin copy of ROS, configured to a single RAM disk within the card

3) Set the configuration to AutoStart

 

By doing these things, I should be able to start up the computer with no cartridge in the slot and be greeted with the custom ROS title screen. If this is successful, I will attempt to find and load the latest version of MENU to the RAMDisk so that AutoStart will run MENU on power-up.

 

 

The video of the current state of affairs is below. Thanks for any and all help in advance.

 

 

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Alright!!! Some success here, but I'm not 100% sure why....

 

I went through the 3 steps I listed above and now have a working RAMDisk, functioning as it should (apparently). I have not loaded MENU yet, as I'll probably save that for tomorrow. Currently the TI with the RAMDisk is doing exactly what it should... I streamed another Live YouTube video and I have posted it below. Seems the audio might be slightly out of sync with the video, but you'll get the general idea.

 

Based on the fact that I did only one thing, I'm inclined to believe that something is wonky with that 8k SRAM chip that holds ROS. I'm going to order another one to have on standby, just in case this thing flakes out again.

 

Whatever I did, I'm glad I did it. As you'll see in the video, I made the changes, removed the HRD, powered it off for a period of time, and everything seemed to hold just fine. The battery is functioning as expected, and all seems to be well.

 

 

 

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Were the original set of 3 batteries 1.2 V for a total of 3.6 Volts, or were they 1.5 V batteries for a total of 4.5 volts? I know your setup was a bit different with a single battery soldered to the board,

Either way, keep in mind you must maintain enough "powered on" time to recharge the battery and use it with a frequency to allow it to recharge. I'm wondering if you are on the edge of insufficient battery power to hold the memory and ROS.

 

Also, what other card(s) do you have in your system.

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Interesting thoughts. I wasn't aware that battery recharged at all.

 

This board was designed to run off a single battery. Since I do not have the original manual (still looking for it on whtech) I'm not sure if it was designed to run with a 3.6 or not. Vic Steerup, the card's original owner, replaced the battery in June before it came to my hands. I'm guessing that he did a 1 for 1 replacement of the battery that was in the card originally.

 

 

Other than the RAMDisk, I have all stock TI cards:

 

-32k

-RS232

-Floppy Controller

-Flex Interface

 

No modifications have been done to any of the cards.

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If you can, check the voltage across the battery with the card pulled from the PEBox. If it is below the 3.6 Volts, then likely you need to leave your PEBox on with the card in the PEBox to recharge at least overnight.

 

I do not know how long it takes to charge that battery.

Beery

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Not rechargeable? And it is soldered in? Is anyone familiar with this specific setup then?

 

I would definitely check the voltage across the battery with the card pulled from the system.

 

And here I was going offer Owen $20 for his card last Friday night "just so he would not have to deal with the hassle". ;-)

 

Sounds like $5 may be a better ...... :-D

 

Beery

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Okay, so we found a battery that has nearly double the amp hours but is not rechargeable. This should work just fine, as long as I install a battery holder onto the board (which looks pretty simple to do, given the amount of real estate at the top of the card).

 

I am going to do as Beery suggests and test the current voltage of that battery while unplugged, and if it is low, I will go ahead and begin the process of purchasing the battery holder, the new battery, etc.

 

I need to read up as much as I can to make sure that this board isn't SUPPOSED to have a rechargeable battery, and the incorrect battery was installed by the previous owner. Knowing Vic, I don't think he would make that mistake though.

 

If it is indeed designed for a standard (non-rechargeable) lithium battery, I will go with the 3.7V 3.6 AH battery online after installing a battery holder. If it IS supposed to have a rechargeable, then I may have an entirely new set of concerns.

 

I'll keep this thread updated as I learn more.

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Back in the day when the original Horizon Ramdisk came out, I want to say it was a Nicad batteries were common. I went back to the documentation you posted earlier and there was this statement:

 

post-62580-0-61045500-1542228159_thumb.jpg

 

Any lithium battery, I would be very careful especially if you have a potential failure of the charging circuit due to the hazards of a lithium battery.

 

That is about as far as my hobbyist experienced can lead me with suggestions to identify the issue(s).

 

Please note that prior to seeing your card last Friday, I had never seen a Midwest Ramdisk.

 

Beery

Edited by BeeryMiller
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Hey there. That Xeno battery is definitely perfectly fine for an HRD 2000. I have worked with 4 or 5 of them with exactly that. It doesn't mean that yours isn't the problem, since it might be old and need replaced.

I think it boils down to the 8K memory chip which stores the ROS is failing. Which could either be due to the battery not providing the right power, or because the chip itself has gone bad. In my experience, I always need to replace the chip.

 

It's good practice to replace the battery as well if you don't know how old it is, but you have to be careful. It's true that the lithium battery is not rechargeable. But it is designed to have a 10 year life span. You can't swap it out with a rechargeable battery because the card itself would need different resistors installed to provide the extra voltage from the PEB for recharging. If you put a normal rechargeable in, it will die quickly, and you might suppose it's not the battery's fault since it's new.

 

In the reverse case, if you put a regular battery in an HRD configured for a rechargeable, you'll likely overheat the regular battery and cause an acid leak.

 

In the HRD 2000 manual, there is discussion of recovering from your blank screen issue by turning on the console with E/A inserted, followed by turning on the PEB box. So you skip interference from the corrupted HRD. Then you can apparently run the configuration tool and you will still be able to re-install the ROS without pulling your chip or battery out. It might be an interesting experiment to see if the contents of the ramdisk are preserved, despite the ROS going bad. It's not definitive, but it would suggest that the problem is with the chip over the battery.

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Interesting..... I'll need to take some hyper detailed shots of the card so we can see where all the jumpers are set. I think even with the paltry docs we actually do have, we should be able to line out exactly what we need for this to work properly.

 

It's got to be the battery draining.... if I can get it to run on Friday, then it stops running on Sunday, then I can get it to run on Monday, then it stops working on Tuesday (each time with the same issue, BTW) then we have to be talking about battery issues.... so many inconsistencies with a completely dead battery theory though. I need to get a meter out and do some testing at various stages of operation. That's the only way we'll know what's going on with that battery.

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Hmm I thought RAMBO was ONLY GENEVE? (I heard in your video you say RAMBO set up??)

 

I had several Horizon RAMDISK and in video you said RAMBO is set up, so if that is the case you are going to get nothing but CRASHES?

 

Also using the HRD 32K on board was always a problem for me as I had a Myarc 512K card and Myarc RAMDISK and Myarc Floppy controller.

 

I think the HRD hated the Myarc stuff, but worked fine with the CorComp devices, so stayed with SAMS, CorComp, SCSI Controller and HRD 4000.

Edited by RXB
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There are no switches on this board. As we see in the second video, the card works as expected, even after power-down. Unfortunately, it seems to "lose it" after, we'll, in this case, 9 hours of being off.

 

I'm going to take some very detailed pictures tonight so we can all have a good look-see. :)

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pfleeman,

 

I am going to assume the RAM as well. From all the "pulling" of the chip and reseating, one of the legs has become weak. As a matter of fact, if I pull the chip again, I'm not sure that one leg will even come out with the chip this time. I'll have to pry it out of the socket more than likely.

 

I've ordered a new 8K SRAM chip already, but it likely won't be here until I return from Colorado on the 24th. I could attempt to carefully solder the leg back on, but I think we all know how that will turn out...

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Hmm I thought RAMBO was ONLY GENEVE? (I heard in your video you say RAMBO set up??)

 

I had several Horizon RAMDISK and in video you said RAMBO is set up, so if that is the case you are going to get nothing but CRASHES?

 

Also using the HRD 32K on board was always a problem for me as I had a Myarc 512K card and Myarc RAMDISK and Myarc Floppy controller.

 

I think the HRD hated the Myarc stuff, but worked fine with the CorComp devices, so stayed with SAMS, CorComp, SCSI Controller and HRD 4000.

Might have been an issue with the Myarc RAMdisk. The Myarc FDC, HFDc,RS232, and geneve all play nicely so long as you used the proper ROS version. 8.3x did away with the need for the Myarc vs. TI/CC ROS distinction.

 

RAMBO is a TI-only mod. It is not for use with the Geneve. To be quite honest, I don't know that anyone really made use of RAMBO and from my perspective, I'm ready to remove its support from future ROS/CFG releases.

 

Owen should check sockets for corrosion and verify proper voltage. I had the same lithium battery variety in my smaller Horizon 3000 and it dropped below the proper voltage within a month of purchase. Probably an issue in my card's backup circuitry as my other 3000 card has been holding its charge for nearly 2 years running on the same three 1.5v alkaline batteries.

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