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2d is awesome


marcio_napoli

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Here's something philosophical to talk about, if you wanna waste some minutes on a topic that changes nothing nowadays.

 

Well, the Jag was a commercial failure, we all know that.

 

 

Personally, I'm guilty myself of judging the Jag essentially a joke back in the day, because most of its 2d games were nothing more than SNES and Genesis ports (or something like that).

 

 

Wrong. Soooo wrong.

 

 

First:

 

2d is awesome.

 

Now that 3d is common as dirt, I'm actually considering the Jag one of the best libraries ever, because it has a super welcome mix of 2d and 3d, unlike the beloved N64, etc.

 

On one hand, you have amazing 3d games like AVP, Skyhammer, Wolfenstein, etc.

 

On the other hand, you also have awesome 2d, like Rayman, Pitfall, Flashback, Raiden, etc.

 

 

How many consoles have such welcome mix?

 

Now that 3d doesn't impress anymore, I'm now super glad half of Jag's collection is 2d.

 

 

 

Second:

 

Since when does 2d mean less?

 

When Gex came out for the 3do, I remember being gobsmacked by its graphics.

 

 

No one ever said Gex is unworthy of being on 32 bit consoles. In fact, the opposite. It's a system pusher, and the 3do had to work very hard on that one, facing slow down several times.

 

 

Shinobi-X is using super well the Saturn capabilities. Another 2d that pushes its console hard.

 

 

So... is 2d really less?

 

Nowadays I don't think so.

 

It's different. Not less.

 

In fact, I wish we've had more 2d games on 3d consoles like the N64, Dreamcast, etc.

 

 

 

Third:

 

Let's make a case for Pitfall.

 

Back in the day, I remember seeing that one and thinking "yeaaaaah... another SNES game on that B$ of 64 bit console... aham, yeah....................."

 

 

So much wrong here.

 

I just concluded things out of my @ss, because if I had checked out properly, I'd have seen the Jag version is so far ahead.

 

 

Is that one on Gex level, as a console pusher?

 

No it isn't, but to say it's on SNES level is just wrong.

 

 

Check this video to see what I mean:

 

 

 

 

I don't care it runs on 30 fps on the Jag. All I care is the artwork and colors are way, waaaaaay better on the Jag.

 

 

I didn't know that back in the 90s.

 

 

 

Rayman is such a hardware pusher, that Sony got envy and brought it to the PS1.

 

 

This can go on and on.

 

You already got the idea.

 

 

Just wanted to clear an injustice I made back in the 90s.

 

 

Jag's 2d should never be compared to SNES level, but that's a mistake I'm guilty of, unfortunately.

 

 

Best regards,

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Here's something philosophical to talk about, if you wanna waste some minutes on a topic that changes nothing nowadays.

 

Well, the Jag was a commercial failure, we all know that.

 

 

Personally, I'm guilty myself of judging the Jag essentially a joke back in the day, because most of its 2d games were nothing more than SNES and Genesis ports (or something like that).

 

 

Wrong. Soooo wrong.

 

 

First:

 

2d is awesome.

 

Now that 3d is common as dirt, I'm actually considering the Jag one of the best libraries ever, because it has a super welcome mix of 2d and 3d, unlike the beloved N64, etc.

 

On one hand, you have amazing 3d games like AVP, Skyhammer, Wolfenstein, etc.

 

On the other hand, you also have awesome 2d, like Rayman, Pitfall, Flashback, Raiden, etc.

 

 

How many consoles have such welcome mix?

 

Now that 3d doesn't impress anymore, I'm now super glad half of Jag's collection is 2d.

 

 

.....

Best regards,

.... lemme think, the Sega Saturn comes to mind ....

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I'm glad you are enjoying your Jaguar. :)

 

In the future, can you edit out some of the white space in your postings? I suspect that you are composing the text offline, and then pasting it in - but it's carrying a bunch of extra line spacing with it.

The huge gaps in the text make it quite difficult to follow.

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Pretty much every console from that era had a mix of 2D and 3D games, seeing as that era represented the transition to 3D. Hell, even the Dreamcast had a decent mix of 2D games, although to be fair, most of them were fighters. The Jag was certainly nothing special in that regard, other than having a much higher percentage of its library being 2D games thanks to the computer game ports.

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Please let's not stagger into the fume filled Sony Rayman conspiracy.

Sony had anything but envy when they saw it.

Michel Ancel told Gamestm, in an interview, back in Issue 11: 'When we did the original Rayman, Sony was telling us it was'nt the right style for the current trend'.

 

You can read the games full development path as told by it's creator here:

 

https://www.retrogamer.net/retro_games90/the-making-of-rayman/

 

As for Pitfall, yep far better colour range and all subsequent onsole versions were based on the Genesis version, with the independently developed SNES version being canned early on.

But having it run at half the frame rate is what you get when you give the conversion to lowest bidder type software houses like Imagitec Design.

It and Flashback (Tiertex) should of been much more, but given the size of the Jaguar market, Atari's limited resources and need to simply get product on the shelves, we got me too versions.

Edited by Lost Dragon
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Pretty much every console from that era had a mix of 2D and 3D games, seeing as that era represented the transition to 3D. Hell, even the Dreamcast had a decent mix of 2D games, although to be fair, most of them were fighters. The Jag was certainly nothing special in that regard, other than having a much higher percentage of its library being 2D games thanks to the computer game ports.

2D games are timeless, that's why they are still around, alive and kicking! The Dreamcast had a good selection of shmups and Puzzlers too, just for the record.

Edited by agradeneu
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Here's something philosophical to talk about, if you wanna waste some minutes on a topic that changes nothing nowadays.

 

Well, the Jag was a commercial failure, we all know that.

 

 

Personally, I'm guilty myself of judging the Jag essentially a joke back in the day, because most of its 2d games were nothing more than SNES and Genesis ports (or something like that).

 

 

Wrong. Soooo wrong.

 

 

First:

 

2d is awesome.

 

Now that 3d is common as dirt, I'm actually considering the Jag one of the best libraries ever, because it has a super welcome mix of 2d and 3d, unlike the beloved N64, etc.

 

On one hand, you have amazing 3d games like AVP, Skyhammer, Wolfenstein, etc.

 

On the other hand, you also have awesome 2d, like Rayman, Pitfall, Flashback, Raiden, etc.

 

 

How many consoles have such welcome mix?

 

Now that 3d doesn't impress anymore, I'm now super glad half of Jag's collection is 2d.

 

 

 

Second:

 

Since when does 2d mean less?

 

When Gex came out for the 3do, I remember being gobsmacked by its graphics.

 

 

No one ever said Gex is unworthy of being on 32 bit consoles. In fact, the opposite. It's a system pusher, and the 3do had to work very hard on that one, facing slow down several times.

 

 

Shinobi-X is using super well the Saturn capabilities. Another 2d that pushes its console hard.

 

 

So... is 2d really less?

 

Nowadays I don't think so.

 

It's different. Not less.

 

In fact, I wish we've had more 2d games on 3d consoles like the N64, Dreamcast, etc.

 

 

 

Third:

 

Let's make a case for Pitfall.

 

Back in the day, I remember seeing that one and thinking "yeaaaaah... another SNES game on that B$ of 64 bit console... aham, yeah....................."

 

 

So much wrong here.

 

I just concluded things out of my @ss, because if I had checked out properly, I'd have seen the Jag version is so far ahead.

 

 

Is that one on Gex level, as a console pusher?

 

No it isn't, but to say it's on SNES level is just wrong.

 

 

Check this video to see what I mean:

 

 

 

 

I don't care it runs on 30 fps on the Jag. All I care is the artwork and colors are way, waaaaaay better on the Jag.

 

 

I didn't know that back in the 90s.

 

 

 

Rayman is such a hardware pusher, that Sony got envy and brought it to the PS1.

 

 

This can go on and on.

 

You already got the idea.

 

 

Just wanted to clear an injustice I made back in the 90s.

 

 

Jag's 2d should never be compared to SNES level, but that's a mistake I'm guilty of, unfortunately.

 

 

Best regards,

I hear you. The Jag is indeed a great 2D machine and deserved a better library of games. But keep in mind that games like Pitfall were mostly meh because a.) the market was already overcrowded/saturated with cookie cutter platformers b.) the game itself being very average c.) 3D being the new. fresh and exciting thing the home market longed for, (after it had a big impact in the arcades)

Edited by agradeneu
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I totally agree, 2d is NOT some lepper baring crippling desiese. Yes this is smack in the middle of the hardcore move to 3d, but the jag got a lot more 2d games in relation to 3d compared to its sub gen, and the next.

 

I've got a few games that are multi platform, as you mention, pitfall, pinball fantasy, NBA jam, and a few others, so when the occasional person wants to know what the jag is like, I can set them up side by side with snes games. Often it's things like being blown away by the colour range, or how much smoother games are on the jag (partially more processing power makes it run faster, partially sheer resolution)

 

Anyhow, I like all kinds of games, but 2d is always going to be a big love for me, so many of my favorite modern games are 2d, or 2d styled.

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