Jump to content

Photo

Killer Bees +


55 replies to this topic

#1 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:40 PM

Hello guys
 
Wanted to share my work in progress on a little game called Killer Bees +.
It's a remake of the old Odyssey 2 title - my favorite one on that platform.
I tried to preserve the same arcade feeling of the original, but I have also taken some liberties and added things given resources available on the Intellivision.
Objective is to move your white bee swarm and get on top of the red/blue walkers to kill them. Doing that will activate a single killer ray shot that can be fired with a button. Other bee swarms and zombie walkers will try to kill you.

Latest release March 3rd, 2019

Get the rom here:Attached File  kbees03032019.rom   66.07KB   31 downloads

Updates:
- music on/off option added to title screen
- songs by First Spear added to the game
- added First Spear to credits section
 
kbees1.png kbees2.png

Older files:

Attached File  kbees03022019.rom   62.57KB   16 downloads
Attached File  kbees01122019.rom   51.57KB   68 downloads
Attached File  kbees01092019.rom   53.06KB   51 downloads
Attached File  kbees01042019.rom   45.06KB   48 downloads 
Attached File  kbees12312018.rom   25.56KB   65 downloads

Edited by cmadruga, Sun Mar 3, 2019 9:19 PM.


#2 mthompson OFFLINE  

mthompson

    Dragonstomper

  • 894 posts
  • Location:Northern Illinois, USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:25 PM

Welcome, and thanks for posting your game. It's fun!

 

One recommendation I have is to make the game objectives visible by pressing a key so they can be read on demand. Possibly the same for the credits and other text. A simple menu could have Instructions, Credits, and Start Game.

 

The robotic voice can be hard to understand. It really helps to have the words on the screen (when possible) whenever the game talks.

 

Great start. Looking forward to future updates.



#3 eebuckeye OFFLINE  

eebuckeye

    Stargunner

  • 1,308 posts

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:33 PM

Very cool! The O2 had some very fun games.   Wonder if Pick Ax Pete could be done too.



#4 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 12,117 posts
  • The P-Machinery AGE is almost here!
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:36 PM

Hi, I played it for a little bit.  I will provide more feedback later, but I can give you my first impressions.
  • I don't really understand how it works.  I seem to go around crazily, and sometimes I kill robots and sometimes I die.
  • I suppose if I am killing the robots by stinging them repeatedly while hovering over them, but that is not very clear.  Perhaps a change of colour or a special sound effect would help.
  • I see that there are other bee swarms in other colours.  I guess that they do the same thing to me when they touch me, and that's what kills me.  However, it is not very clear from the game-play.
  • I encountered some graphical glitches.  At one point, when I died and the game was over, a tile in the border seemed corrupted.  Another time it happened at the end of a level.
  • Sometimes when I pick up what look like power-ups, the messages that show go out too fast and I can't read what they are.
  • Also, the laser flicks too fast and I barely can see it. It looks more like a glitch than on purpose.

That's it for now, I'll try to play some more and provide more feedback.
 
So far, not a bad concept, but it needs some polish.  The game-play seems confusing, especially when things change too quickly like the power-up messages.
 
    -dZ.

#5 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:12 PM

Thanks for the comments and feedback folks. Very helpful.
For reference, here’s the Odyssey version.



I guess I took for granted that people would understand the mechanics based on knowledge of that version, or maybe by intuition partially helped by the attract mode messages. The menu with instructions is a good suggestion.

As for the rest, yes, lots of polish needed, but given it’s my first one and I am NOT a professional programmer, I’m happy so far. I hope others like me will take a chance and share something as well in 2019.

#6 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 12,117 posts
  • The P-Machinery AGE is almost here!
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:48 PM

Thanks for the comments and feedback folks. Very helpful.
For reference, heres the Odyssey version.

https://youtu.be/jJV0uPfro1Q

I guess I took for granted that people would understand the mechanics based on knowledge of that version, or maybe by intuition partially helped by the attract mode messages. The menu with instructions is a good suggestion.

As for the rest, yes, lots of polish needed, but given its my first one and I am NOT a professional programmer, Im happy so far. I hope others like me will take a chance and share something as well in 2019.


It doesn't matter if one is familiar with the mechanics; if the game does not make it apparent with proper feedback that is discernible, then it needs work. *shrug*

The problem I have is not that I don't know how to play the game, but that the game does not seem to provide adequate feedback or reactions to my actions, so it's hard to tell the state of the game at any point.

Also, things like the power-up messages and the laser blast fly by so quickly as to make them distracting -- they seem more like graphical glitches that blink in and out rather than an actual game effect. For the human eye to catch it and process it as you intend, they need to last a few more milliseconds.

dZ.

#7 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 12,117 posts
  • The P-Machinery AGE is almost here!
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:54 PM

By the way, looking at the video you posted, I can see that the original has a few details that help in providing user feedback:
* Sound effects
* The sprite animations make it obvious that they are swarming bees. Even when the enemies are stationary, they look like menacing bees swarming.
* The laser guns blink periodically, calling attention to themselves and making them obvious they are part of the game. They are also larger and more obvious in the play-field.
* When the laser blasts, the guns disappear as well, making it obvious that something happened and changed.

Yours is getting close, but needs a bit of work. :thumbsup:

dZ.

#8 grips03 OFFLINE  

grips03

    River Patroller

  • 3,896 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:10 PM

I play this game on G7400 all the time.  I really like the O3 version, http://videopac.fr

 

Maybe I can try tomorrow.



#9 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:34 PM

* The sprite animations make it obvious that they are swarming bees. Even when the enemies are stationary, they look like menacing bees swarming.
dZ.


Would you be able to tell how the bees are animated on the original? It does not seem to be through a predetermined sequence of frames. I tried capturing the screen to see if I could pick up any clues, but nothing. I wonder if that’s even a sprite.

#10 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 12,117 posts
  • The P-Machinery AGE is almost here!
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:22 PM

Would you be able to tell how the bees are animated on the original? It does not seem to be through a predetermined sequence of frames. I tried capturing the screen to see if I could pick up any clues, but nothing. I wonder if thats even a sprite.


I'll take a look and see if I can help. Even if the original is procedurally generated, I think you can still get away with a simple animation sequence that mimics it. :)

I'll look into it tomorrow ... Tonight, I'm out celebrating the old year (the new one hasn't started yet). Happy New Year!

¡Feliz Año Nuevo!

dZ.

#11 CrazyChris OFFLINE  

CrazyChris

    Dragonstomper

  • 965 posts
  • Location:OH

Posted Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:54 PM

IntyBasic?



#12 nanochess ONLINE  

nanochess

    Processorus Polyglotus

  • 5,898 posts
  • Coding something good
  • Location:Mexico City

Posted Tue Jan 1, 2019 12:40 AM

Actually this is a pretty good first programming effort :) and has a lot of nice visual effects.

I never played the original game but I deducted it rapidly that I should put my white swarm over the robots to pass level.

More sound effects would be appreciate, a kind of intro before starting the level (like putting the robots first and then your swarm) and some pause between levels. Music would be a nice add-on.

 

I'm glad you added things not available in the original game. It's way too limiting to copy a game step-by-step, so I'm glad you're making it to your vision.

 

Keep enhancing it! :) :thumbsup: and happy new year!!! :party:

 



#13 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Tue Jan 1, 2019 1:51 AM

IntyBasic?

Yes.



#14 Kiwi OFFLINE  

Kiwi

    Stargunner

  • 1,694 posts

Posted Tue Jan 1, 2019 2:46 AM

Very nice!!! I found out the hard way that you had to avoid the green zombie alien ones(or use the killer zap to melt them), only sting the non-green one.  I do like how the bee population drops as you get hurt.  I got to level 12 or 13 with a score over 10,000(Now we r talking).
 



#15 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Tue Jan 1, 2019 10:16 AM

Very nice!!! I found out the hard way that you had to avoid the green zombie alien ones(or use the killer zap to melt them), only sting the non-green one.  I do like how the bee population drops as you get hurt.  I got to level 12 or 13 with a score over 10,000(Now we r talking).


Good score, thanks for giving it a try! It only gets harder from there!

Zombies were not part of the original, but the idea came up as I was considering ways to keep building pressure on the player.
I did not want to multiplex in more enemy bees or something. The likelihood of dead robots turning zombies (yeah, I know that sounds awkward) increases as you proceed through the levels. You can never truly kill them, but shooting the ray alleviates the pressure. I tend to use those rays as a type of strategic “insurance” - and a last resort defense -, ideally after luring and lining up multiple baddies.

#16 CrazyChris OFFLINE  

CrazyChris

    Dragonstomper

  • 965 posts
  • Location:OH

Posted Wed Jan 2, 2019 7:57 AM

Yes.

Thanks!



#17 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Fri Jan 4, 2019 10:27 PM

Checkout the updated version of Killer Bees+ attached on the first post to this topic!



#18 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 12,117 posts
  • The P-Machinery AGE is almost here!
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Sat Jan 5, 2019 9:09 AM

Checkout the updated version of Killer Bees+ attached on the first post to this topic!

 

Wow, big improvements!  Here's some feedback:

  • I love the new laser effect, it's great!  The blinking cursors at the margins call my attention adequately, so that I can keep them in my peripheral vision while I concentrate on the action.   :thumbsup:
  • The laser cannons could use a bit of refinement.  They are OK (and the lightning bolt symbol suggests their purpose), but I can't help but think that they could look a bit more like a gun, perhaps with a pointy nozzle towards the play-field.
  • The blinking could also be refined.  Try having them visible for twice as long as invisible.
  • I don't really get what all the "clicking" is about.  It seems much too random and does not seem to align with the enemy nor my own movements.
  • I don't understand the moving doorways (or portals, or tunnels, or teleporters, or whatever).
  • I like how it taunted me when I died miserably:  Yawn! :thumbsup:
  • The interstitial tips screen is very nice.  In time, you could work them into cut-scenes, or at the very least, a more interesting billboard with custom fonts and a bit of pizazz.
  • The collisions with the doorways seems a bit too generous:  sometimes I teleport inadvertently when I move close to a wall and aligned with the doorway by just a couple of pixels.  Perhaps it'll be better if you needed to be right in front of them.
  • The transition through the doorways is a little too abrupt.  It would be better if you could smoothly transition off-screen then on-screen on the other side, rather than disappearing completely on one end and reappearing on the other side immediately.
  • The following tip is confusing: "Zombies won't hurt you [yet], when rising."  I suppose that means that they won't hurt you while rising, until they are fully risen.  If so, perhaps a better turn of phrase would be "Zombies can't hurt you while rising."
  • The two sound effects that need the most work are the "clicking" (???) and the high-pitched "blip" when the enemy bees hit you.
  • If the collision with the doorways is too loose, the collision with the power-ups is too narrow.  I can't seem to pick them up unless I am absolutely and completely on top of them, and stop there for a few frames.  Perhaps they should be consumed the moment you touch them.
  • Sometimes, if I press the button again after using the laser, it will fire another blast even though the guns disappeared.  I do not know if this is a race-condition being missed or if it is on purpose (probably not).  Sometimes it just makes the sound twice without a second blast.
  • The voice phrase in the title screen sounds like "Killer Blees."  You may want to adjust your allophones. :lol:
  • I find the following tip offensive: "Killer Bees for Oddysse2 rocks!" :grin: :rolling:
  • The following tip is confusing:  "Only one killer ray shot can be charged simultaneously."  The terms "only one" and "simultaneously" are mutually exclusive.  Do you mean that you have only one shot at a time?
  • I once got a tip about "bosses," but I don't think I've seen any.  How can I tell?
  • Also, some of the power-ups are hard to understand.  Maybe the attract screen should describe them.
  • I love the zombies.  Adding zombies to a game always makes it better.  Always! :grin:

 

That's it for now.  I am enjoying this game, it has lots of promise! :)  Here's my current high-score:

Score: 13,050

shot0003.gif

 

    -dZ.



#19 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Sat Jan 5, 2019 7:28 PM

Thanks for taking the time to review it and provide detailed feedback. It certainly helps improve it!
Below are some comments. I have organized your points and my responses by general subject.
 
  • I love the new laser effect, it's great!  The blinking cursors at the margins call my attention adequately, so that I can keep them in my peripheral vision while I concentrate on the action.   :thumbsup:
  • The laser cannons could use a bit of refinement.  They are OK (and the lightning bolt symbol suggests their purpose), but I can't help but think that they could look a bit more like a gun, perhaps with a pointy nozzle towards the play-field.
  • The blinking could also be refined.  Try having them visible for twice as long as invisible.
  • Sometimes, if I press the button again after using the laser, it will fire another blast even though the guns disappeared.  I do not know if this is a race-condition being missed or if it is on purpose (probably not).  Sometimes it just makes the sound twice without a second blast.

On the killer ray effect, I'm glad you enjoyed the upgrades. Tried to make creative use of what's available on GROM, and took inspiration in anime-style beam shots.
Blinking frequency is easy to tune. I'm actually finding that its cadence helps build tension a little bit, kind of like in Astrosmash.
I will give some thought to the laser cannon appearance. Ah, the joys of retro game design: making the most of 8x8 monochromatic bitmaps...
I'm thinking the issue with double shot/sound may be the need for a WAIT somewhere once the button is pressed. Will look into it.
 

  • I don't really get what all the "clicking" is about.  It seems much too random and does not seem to align with the enemy nor my own movements.
  • The two sound effects that need the most work are the "clicking" (???) and the high-pitched "blip" when the enemy bees hit you.


Sound effects are all "stubs" for now, I've been actually recycling and modifying what I find in several sources, including Oscar's book.
Hopefully those sounds can be improved going forward... (help?) :)
I'm just not sure which "clicking" you are talking about. Is it the one when you attack a robot?

 

  • I don't understand the moving doorways (or portals, or tunnels, or teleporters, or whatever).
  • The collisions with the doorways seems a bit too generous:  sometimes I teleport inadvertently when I move close to a wall and aligned with the doorway by just a couple of pixels.  Perhaps it'll be better if you needed to be right in front of them.
  • The transition through the doorways is a little too abrupt.  It would be better if you could smoothly transition off-screen then on-screen on the other side, rather than disappearing completely on one end and reappearing on the other side immediately.
  • If the collision with the doorways is too loose, the collision with the power-ups is too narrow.  I can't seem to pick them up unless I am absolutely and completely on top of them, and stop there for a few frames.  Perhaps they should be consumed the moment you touch them.


There are 6 doors, as you start each level they start all open. Then they start opening in random pairs.
Idea is to provide a quick escape, or to reach enemies more easily.
I get you on the problems reported, I will look into them.
 

  • I like how it taunted me when I died miserably:  Yawn! :thumbsup:


Glad you liked it! Messages do get more encouraging, but it takes some work to see them :)
 

  • The interstitial tips screen is very nice.  In time, you could work them into cut-scenes, or at the very least, a more interesting billboard with custom fonts and a bit of pizazz.


Yeah, it's very crude at the moment and can certainly be made easier on the eyes.

 

  • The following tip is confusing: "Zombies won't hurt you [yet], when rising."  I suppose that means that they won't hurt you while rising, until they are fully risen.  If so, perhaps a better turn of phrase would be "Zombies can't hurt you while rising."
  • The following tip is confusing:  "Only one killer ray shot can be charged simultaneously."  The terms "only one" and "simultaneously" are mutually exclusive.  Do you mean that you have only one shot at a time?
  • I find the following tip offensive: "Killer Bees for Oddysse2 rocks!" :grin: :rolling:
  • I once got a tip about "bosses," but I don't think I've seen any.  How can I tell?


On the first and second, I meant what you said, thanks. Will fix.
On the third... truth hurts sometimes, but believe it or not, there are cool games besides Intellivision ones :)
On the forth... that was more of a teaser, you know, to set the internet ON FIRE...lol... Bosses will arrive soon :)
 

  • The voice phrase in the title screen sounds like "Killer Blees."  You may want to adjust your allophones. :lol:


I'm using:
KK3, IH, IH, LL, LL, ER1, RR1, BB2, IY, ZZ, ZZ,0
What would you suggest?
 

  • Also, some of the power-ups are hard to understand.  Maybe the attract screen should describe them.


There are just 3 powerups really: the lightning bolt (arms killer ray if not already armed), extra speed, and replenish health.
There's mention to them on the "How to play" pages. Anyway, will take another look.
 

  • I love the zombies.  Adding zombies to a game always makes it better.  Always! :grin:


Absolutely. I think the only other Intellivision game with zombies may be Dracula, is that right?
Need to fix this zombielesness issue at once.
 

  • That's it for now.  I am enjoying this game, it has lots of promise! :)  Here's my current high-score:

    Score: 13,050

    attachicon.gifshot0003.gif

 
Thanks, glad you are enjoying it! Nice score... but can you do better? :)

#20 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Wed Jan 9, 2019 9:50 PM

Updated rom file attached at the top...

#21 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:03 PM

Question: did I screw up by creating this topic inside the Intellivision Programming forum instead of the General Intellivision / Aquarius one, or the other general forum for homebrews?
Im not as familiar with AtariAge forum structure, but I can certainly move all this to whatever the right place is if needed.

#22 nanochess ONLINE  

nanochess

    Processorus Polyglotus

  • 5,898 posts
  • Coding something good
  • Location:Mexico City

Posted Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:07 PM

Question: did I screw up by creating this topic inside the Intellivision Programming forum instead of the General Intellivision / Aquarius one, or the other general forum for homebrews?
Im not as familiar with AtariAge forum structure, but I can certainly move all this to whatever the right place is if needed.


It's all right because programmers comment here.

Now that your game is better you can post in the main forum for the general public.

#23 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 12,117 posts
  • The P-Machinery AGE is almost here!
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:24 PM

Question: did I screw up by creating this topic inside the Intellivision Programming forum instead of the General Intellivision / Aquarius one, or the other general forum for homebrews?
Im not as familiar with AtariAge forum structure, but I can certainly move all this to whatever the right place is if needed.


If you're addressing Intellivision programmers, this is the place to do it. If you just want to address the general community, can you do it in the other form. :)

Typically works in progress are discussed in the programming forum with other programmers so that they can provide ideas, support, and assistance.

#24 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:29 PM

That has certainly been the case. Lots of input provided here which Im certainly thankful for!

#25 cmadruga OFFLINE  

cmadruga

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Akron, OH USA

Posted Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:33 PM

Even though I dont know enough to be a considered an Intellivision programmer... but hey, fake it until you make it, right? ;)




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users