Killjoyy27 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Hello All, Just got a nice Atari 800 system form a person on this forum. It has the stock ram no expansions yet. I would like the max out the machine as far as best possible ram config to be able to play the most amount of games as possible for this system. I have a lot of retro PC experience but forgive my lack of knowledge on these Atari computer systems. Hoping to learn a lot for the very knowledgeable people on here. So I am looking for knowledge and recommendations of where and what to get to put into the system to get the best configuration of ram. Thanks all in advance ! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 gratz! the 800 has a real vintage feel to it, over engineered and substantial the best mod for the 800 is a device called 'incognito' that replaces the 'personality board' but alas they are no longer in production. Incognito 2 is in development but no due date is known. https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=150 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/278313-incognito-2/ the XL and XE models have various memory upgrade options available so you may want to keep your 800 stock and get an XL or XE for modding? hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) The only easy ram upgrades for the 800, if you can find them are the plug in memory modules that came in flavors of 16K, 32K or 48K from Atari and others in combination that max out the 800 to it's original 48K maximum. Then there are boards made by Axlon and Mosiac and others that give you 64K-1088K, again, if you can find them. But, all of these upgrades limit main memory to 48K and the rest is extended memory and only certain programs took advantage of it, like word processors and database type programs, but anything made for 64K+ XL and XE machines won't run as the XL and XE machines have a different memory map for anything above 48K. So, if you want 64K+ compatibility to run software made for 64K+ XL/XE machines, there are two options, one mentioned above is the Incognito and the best option. The other option is to find a 48K memory board that was originally made for the Atari 400 to upgrade to 48K like the 800, but using only one memory slot it has compared to the 800's 3 memory slots, and then you can do a DIY mod to the 48K board to make it 64K that is compatible with the XL/XE series. This will disable controller ports 3 and 4 on the 800 though, the reason why you'll find out if you do the modification. Otherwise 48K is your limit, which covers around 50-75% of the software made for Atari's. Edited January 2, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 User ClausB here probably knows how to convert every type of memory board for the 400/800 to whatever you need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) User ClausB here probably knows how to convert every type of memory board for the 400/800 to whatever you need. It's his DIY mod that changes the 48K board to 62K (62K+2K for I/O, just like XL/XE) for XL/XE compatibility, so yeah, he's the guy to go too. He's been doing memory upgrades since the days of the 400/800 on Atari 8-bits. Of course there is also this 48K upgrade board I ran across while searching for a legacy one, but I doubt you could do Claus's upgrade to it since it's a modern board, but I'm sure it could work in the 800 too with a little coaxing... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-400-48K-Memory-RAM-Upgrade/233049268074 The maker, TFHH, is a member here at Atari Age and a prominent 8-bit hardware producer. I own a XL/XE Sys-Check & OS/RAM board of his and just ordered a second. So you can trust this board to be good, IMHO. I bet TFHH can tell you how to make it work in an 800. I am still looking for the legacy 48K board myself and plan to do Claus' 62K mod to it for my 800. I also plan on adding Axlon compatible extended ram to it, and have a 48K/62K switch or something...at least until the Incognito 2 comes along or Claus may decide to make his own version of an XL/XE personality board. Edited January 3, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Of course there is also this 48K upgrade board I ran across while searching for a legacy one, but I doubt you could do Claus's upgrade to it since it's a modern board, but I'm sure it could work in the 800 too with a little coaxing... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-400-48K-Memory-RAM-Upgrade/233049268074 The maker, TFHH, is a member here at Atari Age and a prominent 8-bit hardware producer. I own a XL/XE Sys-Check & OS/RAM board of his and just ordered a second. So you can trust this board to be good, IMHO. I bet TFHH can tell you how to make it work in an 800. Here's tf_hh's thread for the 400 52K ram card. I also don't see any explicit mention on the thread of it working in an 800. Would be cool if there was a future version that supported some large amount of AXLON extended RAM. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/267042-new-hardware-atari-400-ram-card-4852-kb-external-os-rom/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) KillJoy, where are you in the world, that's a good start question.. Can you solder / follow electronic simple diagrams? Is money an issue? (don't get too worried re that one) When you say Stock ram do you mean the 3 slots just behind where the cartridges go are all full...If Yes then you almost certainly have 48K which is pretty good but 64K would be more ideal, anything beyond that would be nice but if its just games then it will be mostly unused. Ram upgrades from 48K to 64 or above are available but most (if not all) need soldering and if soldering isn't your thing then it might pay to look for a Cheap 800XL or 130XE just in case, there are people who can install the ram upgrades on here but postage will be a big feature depending where you are and where its going to.. If soldering is your thing then half the battle is done and there are various upgrades that folk will tell you about and which is best.... One of the upgrades mentioned already is the Incognito which has the added ability to allow you to use a different OS chip along with the ram, basically the 800 will be very much like having an 800XL or 130XE and some software be happier with that setup...I can't from memory say which titles work just on having the memory upgrade alone or what ones will need the other OS chip which the Incognito allows you to have up to 4 different OS's (they come as files you upload to it, you don't need the real machine chips.. Hopefully this gives a broader but more simple explanation of what you can do... The 800 is a great machine, most of us gave one as the keyboard and design is wonderful and its got a great compatibility record but SOME stuff needs the extra memory at the very least....Not massive amounts of stuff but some good stuff that would be worth a play... Paul.. Edited January 3, 2019 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 In XL/XE mode, an Incognito machine is functionally identical to an Atari XL/XE as far as software is concerned, to the extent that it's extremely difficult for software to tell whether it's running on an U1MB XL/XE or an Incognito 800. The Incognito has two modes: Colleen (legacy 800) mode and XL/XE mode (fully XL/XE compatible). I'm not aware of any other means of having 64K of base RAM on an 800, since the OS ROM obscures everything beyond 52K (52K being a common upgrade path). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) In that case its either a switchable OS or and Incognito etc etc..I thought the OS still saw the ram...Its been a long long time..Ta for clearing that up... I'd be heading towards a cheap XL / XE (Not sure about XE prices) Edited January 3, 2019 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 In XL/XE mode, an Incognito machine is functionally identical to an Atari XL/XE as far as software is concerned, to the extent that it's extremely difficult for software to tell whether it's running on an U1MB XL/XE or an Incognito 800. The Incognito has two modes: Colleen (legacy 800) mode and XL/XE mode (fully XL/XE compatible). I'm not aware of any other means of having 64K of base RAM on an 800, since the OS ROM obscures everything beyond 52K (52K being a common upgrade path). http://atariage.com/forums/topic/185500-using-the-atari-400-48k-board-in-the-800/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2731076 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/185500-using-the-atari-400-48k-board-in-the-800/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2731076 Ah yes... I think I remember seeing that schematic before. Apparently untested. 52K mods exist. Switchable OS isn't going to get XL/XE compatibility on its own, which is why Incognito was invented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Ah yes... I think I remember seeing that schematic before. Apparently untested. 52K mods exist. Switchable OS isn't going to get XL/XE compatibility on its own, which is why Incognito was invented. Yeah, the 52K mod with the 48K board is just above in that thread as well. I may be the first to test the 62K mod. I suspect there will be some issues to overcome, and I never expect it to work perfectly like an Incognito, or real XL/XE, but I bet is will expand the 800's library a bit. Just something to try while I wait on Incognito 2. IF I can get my hands on a 400 48K board in the first place! But I have full confidence in ClausB's capabilities in Atari memory expansion, he's been doing it for 35-40 years. Edited January 3, 2019 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) On the 800 you can disable the OS ROM by asserting the EXSEL signal on slot 3. That's what I did BITD: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/122750-64k-atari-800/?do=findComment&comment=1483021 I recall trying to run an XL OS on it. There was some problem with the reset and NMI behavior, I think. Maybe it could be patched. Edited January 5, 2019 by ClausB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Here's tf_hh's thread for the 400 52K ram card. I also don't see any explicit mention on the thread of it working in an 800. Would be cool if there was a future version that supported some large amount of AXLON extended RAM. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/267042-new-hardware-atari-400-ram-card-4852-kb-external-os-rom/ I planned a new personality card for the Atari 800. It shall be no replacement for the Incognito, but will combine four flash-based operating systems, 64 KB base memory (you don´t need the memory modules anymore) and 512 kb axlon expanded memory on one single, cheap solution. Maybe other features, too. But today I´m working at The Expander 600XL and some Atari ST stuff. So little time... 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Knight Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I planned a new personality card for the Atari 800. It shall be no replacement for the Incognito, but will combine four flash-based operating systems, 64 KB base memory (you don´t need the memory modules anymore) and 512 kb axlon expanded memory on one single, cheap solution. Maybe other features, too. But today I´m working at The Expander 600XL and some Atari ST stuff. So little time... Jurgen, I very much look forward to this being available (which im sure others are with unexpanded 800's are also). :0) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I planned a new personality card for the Atari 800. It shall be no replacement for the Incognito, but will combine four flash-based operating systems, 64 KB base memory (you don´t need the memory modules anymore) and 512 kb axlon expanded memory on one single, cheap solution. Maybe other features, too. But today I´m working at The Expander 600XL and some Atari ST stuff. So little time... tf hh, why not make an incognito killer? we got a real feel for most of what it can do and a number of the quirks or forgotten bugs or abilities could be dealt with... Going further with better memory handling. I would love to see that and put FACUI's OS on it! .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoestring Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Great news, Jurgen's products are awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebiguy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I planned a new personality card for the Atari 800. It shall be no replacement for the Incognito, but will combine four flash-based operating systems, 64 KB base memory (you don´t need the memory modules anymore) and 512 kb axlon expanded memory on one single, cheap solution. Maybe other features, too. But today I´m working at The Expander 600XL and some Atari ST stuff. So little time... This is one of the greatest news I heard !!!!! Just to clarify the "64 KB base memory", does it mean that it will have an XL mode (or at least more memory than 48 KB in 800 mode - I am talking about base memory of course) ? Thank you very much, Jurgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I planned a new personality card for the Atari 800. It shall be no replacement for the Incognito, but will combine four flash-based operating systems, 64 KB base memory (you don´t need the memory modules anymore) and 512 kb axlon expanded memory on one single, cheap solution. Maybe other features, too. But today I´m working at The Expander 600XL and some Atari ST stuff. So little time... Sounds great and would go well with a 65C816 capable PAL/NTSC switchable SCCC+ [emoji9] Good luck with your projects! Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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