On eBay, Atari 8-bit People are just more honest than PC People

[ACML]

I'm getting really tired of people misrepresenting the condition of what they are selling on eBay. Over the years I have noticed a trend in honesty. Only on one occasion have I ever dealt with a dishonest eBay selling that involved Atari 8-bit hardware. My luck with PC eBay sellers, not so good. Recently (last 18 months) I've had three Radeon 7870 boards all described as working great and what shows up either does not work in 1080P or the essential cooling fans are inoperative. A high performance GPU with the cooling fan inop is not cool. Just receive a Intel ASUS motherboard (used), but working great that shows up DOA. I've been building PCs for over 30 years and I know how to handle hardware. Never killed a board in 30 years and this one is DOA. It's sad. What do they think, I'm just going to shrug it off and say "gee, that sucks".

 

Atari 8-bitters tend to be older and maybe we are just more ethical. I'm not saying most younger folks aren't ethical, most are, its just I seem to be finding some dishonest buggers lately. Could be that these are just re-sellers that don't know the actual condition of the hardware. I need to be more selective on who I choose to buy from.

Edited January 11, 2019 by ACML

[youxia]

Sorry, but it just sounds like an anecdotal evidence to support a theory stemming from a disappointing bad streak. I don't buy A8 hardware but saw quite a few complaints on this forum to know the Atari (and retro gaming in general) folks can be as "dishonest" on ebay as anybody else (if not more, judging by some Extreme Scalping examples).

 

And on the flip side, I bought countless PC components (some very expensive) off ebay over the years since I love second-hand builds, and never, ever had a problem with a faulty one. I'm not saying that the dishonest PC sellers don't exist, there's plenty of sketchy looking ones, but that's why I only buy from what looks like trusted sellers - people with high feedback, preferably at least some of which comes from selling silmilar stuff (other than ~1$ filler).

 

Thing about fans: you probably know this but some of the newer cards have temp profiles set up so the fans kick in only when there's some serious heat. This was once a reasone why I upgraded my 980Ti to 1080 - I thought the fans on it had died, when in reality I just had different cooling profile before and after a Win reinstall the card reverted to its stock one.

[shoestring]

In my experience, folks who sell vintage computer's fall into two main camps.

 

1. People who used them in the past and stored them for years or obtained them from a deceased estate. They usually no longer have the means to test the hardware extensively to list them as working ( red light comes on or whatever, power supplies missing ). I usually have good experiences with such sellers because I always get what I expected.

2. Hobbyists who have have a general love for vintage machines and may have collected them in the past and need to offload some to make room for whatever reason. Good experiences with those guys too as they list details very accurately.

[ACML]

Thing about fans: you probably know this but some of the newer cards have temp profiles set up so the fans kick in only when there's some serious heat. This was once a reasone why I upgraded my 980Ti to 1080 - I thought the fans on it had died, when in reality I just had different cooling profile before and after a Win reinstall the card reverted to its stock one.

I know what you are saying about newer GPU fans, but not in this case. These were 2012 era 7870 Radeons as I also like to build units from second hand components. It's much cheaper than buying current boards that I'll never use all the power of. I knew for a fact that these fans should run all the time as I already own the same model. I too have bought a lot of PC components, but as you stated, I've had a bad luck streak. I've bought much more Atari 8-bit hardware and have only had the one issue. This goes back to 2010, so my sample size on Atari stuff is significant.

[DavidMil]

I bought a 20 meg half height Seagate RLL hard drive from a seller on ebay a long time ago. The add said, "tested, some bad

sectors but working." When the drive showed up it had a hole drilled through the top and out the bottom. This was a way that

some companies made sure their data was safe. I did get a refund, but I had to go through ebay to get it, because the seller

accused ME of drilling the hole! From the way his correspondence read, I think that English was a second language for the

seller.

 

David

[oracle_jedi]

I feel there has been a noticeable decline in standards of honesty on Ebay with both sellers and buyers over the last decade.

 

As the site has grown and become mainstream, any genre of collectible and scarce product, such as trading cards, barbies, beanie babies or whatever seems to attract those looking to scam their way to a fast profit either by mis-representing what they are selling, or claiming that an item they purchased was never delivered, arrived broken, wasn't properly described etc.

 

I've been lucky. My worst experience was when I sold a completely sealed fitbit to a buyer in Kansas. After she got the item she complained I had shipped her a used item and there was no charger. Ebay forced me to refund her money and pay to ship the item back. When I got it back the charger cable was in the box in its original position. Showing a picture of this to Ebay only got me an email basically stating "tough shit". I got the item back, albeit now ripped open, and was out of pocket shipping to and from Kansas. I've read many many stories of other sellers losing not only the shipping and sale price but never getting the item back at all. If true, Ebay has basically facilitated theft where the victim is forced to pay as well.

 

I remember reading that Pierre Omidyar envisaged the seller/buyer feedback system would weed out bad buyers and seller, but the current management of Ebay seems to have decided that the buyer is always right. I can only image they can see they have an order of magnitude more buyers than sellers, so when a dispute is opened, they will side with the buyer in almost every case.

 

For these reasons I will not sell anything of any real value on Ebay. The retro community for Atari computers is still niche enough that we've avoided much of the drama that happens in other areas, but should I ever decide to sell off any of my valuable Atari parts it will be on Amibay, SellMyRetro or on the for-sale forum here. Never Ebay.

[ChildOfCv]

My favorite is when a seller lists a not working item as "not tested". I guess they think they might eek a couple extra dollars from someone if they present it as a mystery device.

[+Nezgar]

I bought a 20 meg half height Seagate RLL hard drive from a seller on ebay a long time ago. The add said, "tested, some bad

sectors but working." When the drive showed up it had a hole drilled through the top and out the bottom. This was a way that

some companies made sure their data was safe. I did get a refund, but I had to go through ebay to get it, because the seller

accused ME of drilling the hole! From the way his correspondence read, I think that English was a second language for the

seller.

 

David

Wow.. The holes were not visible in pictures in the listing??

 

The sounds of the Seagate ST-225 are ingrained in my memory. it's the mechanism that was in my dads first hard drive, the ST MegaFile 20, my first 8-Bit Hard drive for the MIO and Adaptec 4000A controller, and lots of the Mac Plus's at high school had external SCSI hard drives with the same signature seek sounds.

[shoestring]

My favorite is when a seller lists a not working item as "not tested". I guess they think they might eek a couple extra dollars from someone if they present it as a mystery device.

 

Not tested = dead, assume so and bid accordingly.

[Guest]

here's the list we compiled at our forum...see if any "ring true" with you

 

 

seller description: have no idea about how to use this at all = actual description: i have EVERY idea how to use this, but it's dead!
seller description: was grandparents/parents from new, just need the space = actual description: bought off Car Boot Sale last weekend
seller description: some parts missing = actual description: all of the important parts are missing
seller description: condition, like new = actual description: condition NOTHING like new
seller description: fair condition = actual description: was last used 26/4/1986, Pripyat, Ukraine.
seller description: no PSU or TV cables, so unable to test = actual description: dead as f***! - PSUs/cables for sale in separate advert
seller description: worked last time out used = actual description: no it didn't. was put away, because it stopped working.
seller description: good condition for age = actual description: heavily stained, dirty, bloody, excrement and dead skin in every crevice
seller description: new, sealed, never been out of box = actual description: bought some clingfilm to conceal 30 years of yellowing and a distinctive aroma of chain-smoking
seller description: hard to find = actual description: f**king everywhere!
seller description: my first computer = actual description: never seen it before in my life!
seller description: so much fun = actual description: what does it do?
seller description: includes huge software bundle = actual description: STAR RAIDERS + BASIC carts included
seller description: unable to test as don't have old TV = actual description: i'm a f**king moron/liar (delete as applicable)
seller description: impossible to find in this condition = actual description: except at the bottom of a skip
seller description: returns accepted = actual description: returns NOT accepted
seller description: some assembly required = actual description: broken!
seller description: re-advertised due to time-waster = actual description: i'm a f**king time-waster who closes auctions when I don't like the winning bid
seller description: unexpectedly available again = actual description: no interest at all in the sh*t i'm selling
seller description: no reserve, low starting price = actual description: haha - i'm a shill seller!
seller description: an easy fix = actual description: i tried to fix it, and have damaged it beyond repair
seller description: an easy fix for a handyman = actual description:an impossible fix for anyone but the most expensive experts
seller description: works intermittently = actual description:when i power on, there's a smell of burning plastic, so i powered off and advertised on ebay
seller description: an ideal project = actual description:all your free cash will disappear into this money pit
seller description: despatch within 3 days of cleared payment with full tracking = actual description:not a chance in hell of either happening
seller description: international bidders welcome = actual description:errrrm, no. not really.
seller description: unexpectedly available again, due to time wasters = actual description:genuine bidder didn't fall for my shill-bidding scam
seller description: highly sought-after "misprinted label" rarity = actual description:i have MS Office, Photoshop and a laser printer and can/do duplicate forgeries for fun
seller description: rare rescue from Atari New-Mexico landfill = actual description:as common as shit...but to make it looks real, i filled the box with sand
seller description: Rescued from my neighbour's/auntie's/grandad's/dog's [delete as applicable] attic. = actual description:bought off car boot this morning for £1.00

Edited January 11, 2019 by Guest

[flashjazzcat]

You could implement something along the lines of Google Translate which accepts the listing description as input and outputs what it actually means.

[Mr Robot]

I've been lucky. My worst experience was when I sold a completely sealed fitbit to a buyer in Kansas. After she got the item she complained I had shipped her a used item and there was no charger. Ebay forced me to refund her money and pay to ship the item back. When I got it back the charger cable was in the box in its original position. Showing a picture of this to Ebay only got me an email basically stating "tough shit". I got the item back, albeit now ripped open, and was out of pocket shipping to and from Kansas. I've read many many stories of other sellers losing not only the shipping and sale price but never getting the item back at all. If true, Ebay has basically facilitated theft where the victim is forced to pay as well.

 

 

 

You probably got her broken fitbit back. A lot of buyers will order a replacement for something they already own, swap the broken part and file a claim for a refund.

 

I always take photos of everything before it goes into the packaging/ in the packaging/ sealed/ addressed and the postage reciept. Photos of what the buyer sent back along with the ones of the package I sent (including the returned packaging to confirm its all the same thing) are enough to prove you were telling the truth.

 

eBay sides with the buyer if you cannot prove your side of the transaction. Just make sure you can.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Mr Robot

[Mr Robot]

Might I humbly suggest that this thread is off topic for the Atari 8-Bit forum and would be better placed in the Auction Central forum in the Marketplace?

[DavidMil]

Wow.. The holes were not visible in pictures in the listing??

 

The sounds of the Seagate ST-225 are ingrained in my memory. it's the mechanism that was in my dads first hard drive, the ST MegaFile 20, my first 8-Bit Hard drive for the MIO and Adaptec 4000A controller, and lots of the Mac Plus's at high school had external SCSI hard drives with the same signature seek sounds.

 

That was my fault for not looking closely. Yes, you could see the hole in the top, but to be honest it looked like a speck of dirt. The vender wanted his drive back too.

I remember we had to make a cryptic call in DOS to do a low level format before we could use those old drives, and it took about a hour to complete. Those were the

days!

 

David

[+Nezgar]

 

That was my fault for not looking closely. Yes, you could see the hole in the top, but to be honest it looked like a speck of dirt. The vender wanted his drive back too.

I remember we had to make a cryptic call in DOS to do a low level format before we could use those old drives, and it took about a hour to complete. Those were the

days!

 

David

Yep, low level format is mandatory on MFM/RLL drives. I used respective tools for the MIO on the 8-bit and the external MegaFile drives on the ST. The nice thing about it was often bad sectors would 'go away' after a low level format - I guess it refreshed the magnetic signatures on the surface. An hour sounds about right, maybe 30 minutes?

 

I should make a video of a low level format on my MIO. I went through the process a year ago or so with a drive intended to be a 130MB RLL drive that works out to about 80MB with MFM as I only have an adaptec 4000a controller (4070 needed for RLL), and the format worked!

 

The ICD tools on the ST were funny because I think you had to confirm SEVEN times before the format would proceed. it was a big deal to potentially erase that much data back then.

[_The Doctor__]

The recovery of bad sectors can be two fold.... the older drives could experience variance and creep over time... slowly the sectors creep forward or backward on the physical surface of the disk, sometimes remnants get in the way other times there is an actual defect there when you low level it may miss the defect completely or unify good remnants making it whole again as the two cells now become one.

 

It was good to periodically refresh a drive and write all the data out again, performing a verify a time or two days apart before erasing original data. Multiple low levels can allow the drive to drift past a bad spot and allow for better results... less or no bad sectors.. generally it will be fine as most drives drift in the same direction so once it is at it's best point you can run with it..

 

There were two schools of thought, low level till you hit the most bad sectors and map them out, if you drift you won't hit the bad spot anyway.. or low level until you have the least and enjoy the added space putting your most read and least written stuff in that area... it may drift and come up bad later but since they normally drift in the same direction, if you write very little you may never hit it again, if you write to that area a good amount it will eventually hit it again any way no matter what you do..