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Convert EA3 to EA5 / run EA3 from cassette in XB?


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#1 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:10 PM

Is there anyway to convert a EA3 program into a EA5 program?

I have some programs that i want to try out on my real TI, but i can not figure out how i would load them.

I am probably sounding like a broken record but, as i have said many times, i only have wav/tape + 32k + and XB, no disks, not FG99, no TiPi.

I have had success using cass24k2 to load longer XB programs in int/var format that would normally be impossible from tape, and for Assembly programs, i have to use the Funnelweb cassette loader to load EA5 files.

I have a small collection of programs in EA3, and if anyone could help this die hard cassette user load them on real iron, i would be very grateful.



#2 HOME AUTOMATION OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:55 AM

I am not familiar with Funnelweb. I believe the EA5 loader expects the first line of the loaded program to be the "entry point"... since this is not common for most programs, a branch to the entry point  must be "inserted" at the beginning of the program... this is probably beyond the scope of a simple edit to the tagged obj. code...

Perhaps a conversion utility could be written... although I suppose the user would have to indicate the correct program name.

I imagine you envision converting on an emulator.

I think Step 1 might be to disassemble... 2. edit, inserting the branch line and the SFIRST,SLAST,SLOAD labels... 3. reassemble... 4. load, load and run the SAVE utility from E/A DISK B. specifying CS1(MESS).



#3 sparkdrummer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:18 AM

What are the DF/80 files youre looking to convert?

#4 senior_falcon OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:17 PM

Is there anyway to convert a EA3 program into a EA5 program?

I have a small collection of programs in EA3, and if anyone could help this die hard cassette user load them on real iron, i would be very grateful.

Are these on tape?



#5 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:04 PM

Are these on tape?

No they are in .dsk files.

 

 

What are the DF/80 files youre looking to convert?

Give me a little bit, i will upload them.

Here they are on a .dsk file:

badwalls ;program name is MERLIN

bomber ;program name is BOMBER

 

the others i believe autostart after inputting filename:

as-TI-roids

arthropod

breakout

cubit

dragon

dstation

froghaven

slymoids

Attached File  ATARIAGE.dsk   180KB   7 downloads


Edited by jrhodes, Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:31 PM.


#6 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:12 PM

What does it even mean to have E/A#5 files on tape? Is the format described anywhere? Is the Funnelweb cassette loader also on tape?  :?



#7 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:30 PM

Yes, the funnelweb loader is on tape.

E/A #5 on tape is exactly how it sounds. I take a E/A #5 program on disk, and use CS1er on each file to produce a wav.

As an example, here is the funnelweb loader, and hen-pecked E/A #5 program.

Attached File  upload.zip   94.56KB   6 downloads



#8 sparkdrummer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:54 PM

I believe Ive got all those titles already in program format. Do you have a cassette recorder?

#9 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:08 PM

I believe Ive got all those titles already in program format. Do you have a cassette recorder?

Yes i have a cassette recorder.

Honestly though, i prefer to load wav files from my android tablet.



#10 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:12 PM

If you just need a PC tool that converts disk EA3 to EA5 I'm sure someone must have something you can use. 


Edited by Asmusr, Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:13 PM.


#11 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:43 PM

If you just need a PC tool that converts disk EA3 to EA5 I'm sure someone must have something you can use. 

That is what i was originally hoping for, a pc tool for converting.

Or someone to have the programs already in EA5 format.



#12 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:10 PM

Is there anyway to convert a EA3 program into a EA5 program?

I have some programs that i want to try out on my real TI, but i can not figure out how i would load them.

I am probably sounding like a broken record but, as i have said many times, i only have wav/tape + 32k + and XB, no disks, not FG99, no TiPi.

I have had success using cass24k2 to load longer XB programs in int/var format that would normally be impossible from tape, and for Assembly programs, i have to use the Funnelweb cassette loader to load EA5 files.

I have a small collection of programs in EA3, and if anyone could help this die hard cassette user load them on real iron, i would be very grateful.

It's possible, I have done it, and in 1986 I wrote a utility "Supersave" that automated the process of making an EA5 from multiple EA3 files.

It worked by checking the next free address pointers in high RAM before and after loading.

It would not handle programs that load into low RAM, code that is not simply relocatable object code, or programs that depend on having the E/A utilities in low RAM.

 

If I were writing it today, I would make a complete new loader that handled all these issues correctly.

 

Finding my original program Supersave has been tough.. I have a bunch of ARC files that I can't seem to open.



#13 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:00 PM

I managed to convert most of the programs using supersave.

I could not get arthropods, as-ti-roids, & froghaven to convert.

Attached zip includes all of the other programs in EA5 format converted by me with supersave.

I am still looking for EA5 versions of the programs i could not convert successfully.

Attached File  supersave converted.zip   27.33KB   9 downloads



#14 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:59 AM

I'm happy that this worked for you. I can take a look at the games that didn't convert to see what's up there. Are those the versions from Gamebase or somewhere? Maybe a new version of Supersave is in order...

 

Just now, my desk holds only a cassette based 4A (lots of Mini Memory and LLBA from cassette, I mean WAV file), so I may have a go at the Funlweb cassette loader.

 

Separate thread for Supersave: http://atariage.com/...s-as-ea5-files/


Edited by FarmerPotato, Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:03 PM.


#15 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 PM

I'm happy that this worked for you. I can take a look at the games that didn't convert to see what's up there. Are those the versions from Gamebase or somewhere? Maybe a new version of Supersave is in order...

 

Just now, my desk holds only a cassette based 4A (lots of Mini Memory and LLBA from cassette, I mean WAV file), so I may have a go at the Funlweb cassette loader.

 

Separate thread for Supersave: http://atariage.com/...s-as-ea5-files/

The games are from whtech ftp. Part of the tosec disk collection.

... I think...

Actually, i just noticed my converted copy of badwalls is not working today.

I converted and tested all the programs in a single session of classic99.

Today, i go to load badwalls in classic99 via E.A. option 5, and it hangs at a green screen.

 

If i convert it with supersave, and immediately go back and select option 5, i can boot the converted program.

Not tried the other programs i converted, not sure if its just that one program or if all of them are potentially trashed.

-------------

OK, just checked, and badwalls is the only converted program to not boot/hangs on a cold boot from E.A.

 

I have not tested loading these on my real TI from XB using the funnelweb cassette loader.

Getting ready to convert them to wav files via CS1 later today.


Edited by jrhodes, Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:20 PM.


#16 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:35 PM

The games are from whtech ftp. Part of the tosec disk collection.

... I think...

Actually, i just noticed my converted copy of badwalls is not working today.

I converted and tested all the programs in a single session of classic99.

Today, i go to load badwalls in classic99 via E.A. option 5, and it hangs at a green screen.

 

If i convert it with supersave, and immediately go back and select option 5, i can boot the converted program.

Not tried the other programs i converted, not sure if its just that one program or if all of them are potentially trashed.

-------------

OK, just checked, and badwalls is the only converted program to not boot/hangs on a cold boot from E.A.

 

I have not tested loading these on my real TI from XB using the funnelweb cassette loader.

Getting ready to convert them to wav files via CS1 later today.

 

OK, badwalls  may rely on something particular to E/A default setup, or load something somewhere (low memory) that Supersave can't detect.

I am happy to go in there and see what it is.



#17 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:39 PM

I have noticed graphic glitches with some programs after using super to convert them.

Cubit, and breakout are missing the copyright character.

Cubit, orignal E.A. #3 version:

Attached File  cubit ea3.png   1.73KB   0 downloads

Cubit, converted to E.A. #5 with super save, loaded from E.A.:

Attached File  cubit ea5 converted by supersave.png   1.69KB   0 downloads

Cubit, converted to E.A. #5 with super save, loaded from TI XB using Funnelweb cassette loader:

Attached File  cubit ea5 conversion loaded with funnelweb from xb.png   1.14KB   0 downloads

Dstation has a glitch near the troops remaining display: (seems the glitch disappears after losing a life)

Attached File  Screenshot-1.png   4KB   0 downloads



#18 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:55 PM

I have noticed graphic glitches with some programs after using super to convert them.

Cubit, and breakout are missing the copyright character.

 

It looks like the programs assume that E/A has set up things in the VDP.

 

In particular, the char defs (with a © character that's not from the console char defs), color table, screen color in VDP register 7.

In the case of D-station, it looks like an extra sprite, so that game may assume E/A has put sensible starting values in the sprite table.

 

Its possible that Fweb cassette loader tries to set up the VDP to match the E/A environment (it gets the color), and leaves some differences.



#19 senior_falcon OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:04 AM

I believe that it is possible to load and run EA5 programs with a bare console, 32K and cassette player.



#20 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:34 AM

Here's Badwalls as E/A#5, converted using Classic99.

Attached Files



#21 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:23 PM

I believe that it is possible to load and run EA5 programs with a bare console, 32K and cassette player.

Explain?

I have been using console, XB, 32k, cassette, and Funnelweb's cassette loader.

I don't have access to a E.A. or minimem cart.



#22 senior_falcon OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:57 PM

It would take a special loader that uses the principle used in the playground loader, which can run assembly language on an unexpanded console. Probably the best approach would be to write the loader embedded in a short BASIC program. When it runs it could copy itself to a safe location in VDP ram and from there would be able to load the EA5 files from cassette and start the program up.



#23 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:25 PM

Isn't that pretty much what the funnelweb loader is doing?



#24 senior_falcon OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:40 PM

Can the funnelweb loader run without a cartridge in the slot? 



#25 jrhodes OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:22 PM

No.

I see now, you want to make a loader for TI basic.

With nothing in the cartridge port, isn't ti basic blind to the 32k needed for assembly programs?

 

It will be interesting to see you pull this off.






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