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jaguar unreleased games

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#1 jenovi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:58 PM

    I just released the first part of my Unreleased Jaguar series and thought you might enjoy it. It's going to be lengthy as I'm covering every game planned for the system during its active years, but not released. Part one details seldom if ever discussed sales figures and statistics before getting into the games. It runs in mostly alphabetic order, and at this point, I've covered A-AR.  Some games will be held back as I try to verify information or get in touch with people involved, so don't fret if a game gets passed over. 

 

Anyways, I've done a massive amount of research to verify and dismiss a long list of games. If you want to check out the series, I wholeheartedly welcome you to. 

 

If you were involved in the creation of unreleased/canceled Jaguar games or If you've been involved in preserving Jaguar history relating to games and would like to contribute your story, please reach out to me. I would love to chat. -Jenovi

 

Unreleased Atari Jaguar

https://youtu.be/3A4P_oDB0TY

 



#2 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:44 PM

Nice vid!

BTW: it's pronounced Jag-waar, not Jag-ewe-are. Say it with me... jag-waar, Jag-Waar, JAG-WAAR! :rolling:



#3 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:47 PM

If you do some research and don't just copy/paste from the bastardized/fictional/misleading information from KGRAMR and Kieren (The Liard) Hawken (RAMR has been defacing the wiki page for months now) then this could be really interesting.



#4 jenovi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:21 PM

Just a country boy who can't pronounce Jaguar... Then again, who but the British can? 

Nice vid!

BTW: it's pronounced Jag-waar, not Jag-ewe-are. Say it with me... jag-waar, Jag-Waar, JAG-WAAR! :rolling:



#5 jenovi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:26 PM

If you do some research and don't just copy/paste from the bastardized/fictional/misleading information from KGRAMR and Kieren (The Liard) Hawken (RAMR has been defacing the wiki page for months now) then this could be really interesting.

Well, I know there are some creators who love to read from Wikipedia and use it as their only source. That's not me. I'm not really plugged into the politics of the collector community (I'm assuming that's who these guys are) and don't know either of these two people you mentioned. If I don't have a direct source I can verify, the game won't get covered / information shared. 



#6 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:40 PM

Cool, will watch later :)



#7 Gummy Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:19 PM

Just a country boy who can't pronounce Jaguar... Then again, who but the British can?


You're saying it right.
Good video as well. :)

#8 skip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:08 PM

Nice video. Very well put together and balanced :) A couple of things / questions:

- Is Aretemis any relation to Power Crystal? PC was going to be on the 3DO M2. They look very similar.
- That 2.5 million preorder in the EU is a figure Ive seen twice recently, and also back in the day. I do find it a bit unbelievable. Are / were there any sources other than Atari?
- Rober(th) Martinez (if that is indeed who you mentioned toward the end) is problematic. Despite his enthusiasm, he doesnt even own a Jag and has caused issues with some people. He is KGRAMR. I will leave it at that.

#9 jenovi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:42 PM

Thanks!
-Artemis is Power Crystal. It was a pet project of Jan Wittaker who was also the lead designer for AVP. I've been working on a short documentary documenting they contribute to the gaming industry and life, but have yet to connect for an interview.
 
-I know Roberth about as good as I know the main man behind Atari Age (not good at all). The thanks there is for magazine clips he's sent me for this series after watching my Unreleased 32X series. I'm grateful for the support tracking down resources but I always do my own fact-checking. I've actually sent him some messages but haven't chatted since October of last year (This series has been in the works for a while).
 
-I'll try to not get too deep in the weeds here, so bear with me. 
 
-That preorder figure is suspect as are most other figures Atari released related to the Jag, or that were later stated in post-Jaguar interviews. 
 
The Tramiel family was good at playing the press with misinformation, however, I believe there is a hint of truth in this number, even if it's 1/2 the stated amount. Unfortunately, when it comes to sales figures, we only have Atari's PR department, SEC filings, and whatever internal documents might have later leaked. Two are reliable sources, one is not. 
 
At the time of the Jag's launch, Atari was still known and respected in Europe with most of their sales generating from that region. In my opinion, this was the region most willing to accept the console and the region Atari should have focused on first. 
 
Imagine if Sega had only had resources to focus on one region and choose North America as the home of their Saturn, it would have been a disaster. While they didn't have the success seen with the Genesis, by focusing on Japan first, they were able to avert a total disaster when it failed in North America. Atari for their part should have focused on Europe in 93 because that's the only region they had any meaningful market share in. Still going with the Saturn though, rushing a botching launch as did Sega might have resulted in nothing more than the 225,000 units Atari eventually sold. 
 
Anyways, I debated as to if I should use that number as I find numbers from people involved with Atari at the time unreliable. In the end, I chose to include it as there is no doubt that there were a massive amount of preorders that Atari didn't deliver on in Europe that in my mind painted the course the system would eventually take. 

 

 

 

Nice video. Very well put together and balanced :) A couple of things / questions:

- Is Aretemis any relation to Power Crystal? PC was going to be on the 3DO M2. They look very similar.
- That 2.5 million preorder in the EU is a figure Ive seen twice recently, and also back in the day. I do find it a bit unbelievable. Are / were there any sources other than Atari?
- Rober(th) Martinez (if that is indeed who you mentioned toward the end) is problematic. Despite his enthusiasm, he doesnt even own a Jag and has caused issues with some people. He is KGRAMR. I will leave it at that.



#10 skip OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:51 PM

Cheers for the reply. I knew those Artemis screenshots reminded me of stuff I had read and seen about 25 years ago!

Many people seem to think that had Atari focussed on Europe things could have been a little different. I tend to agree too.

Looking forward to seeing more vids :)

#11 VintageGamer74 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:45 PM

Great video! Always interesting to learn about the Jaguar. Even if it's a bit depressing.

#12 TrekMD ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:05 PM

Very nice video and some stuff I didn't know in it also.  :)



#13 Andrew Rosa OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:16 PM

Cool, will watch later :)

I'll totally vouch for Jenovi. He's far more meticulous with his research than I am, and he's too damn busy to get involved with...certain people. ;)



#14 Stage_1_Boss OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:41 AM

Awesome video, thanks for putting this together. = )



#15 Cyprian_K OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:24 PM

Unreleased Atari Jaguar

https://youtu.be/3A4P_oDB0TY

 

 

Thanks Jenovi, great video.



#16 jenovi OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:34 AM

If you do some research and don't just copy/paste from the bastardized/fictional/misleading information from KGRAMR and Kieren (The Liard) Hawken (RAMR has been defacing the wiki page for months now) then this could be really interesting.

Welp, I met Kieren today. We do not see eye to eye and I don't believe he's fond of me. I'll just leave it at that. BTW, are you behind the releases under your post? If so, I own about 1/2 of them. Good work all around. 



#17 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:31 AM

Welp, I met Kieren today. We do not see eye to eye and I don't believe he's fond of me. I'll just leave it at that. BTW, are you behind the releases under your post? If so, I own about 1/2 of them. Good work all around. 

 

Good enough for me :)

 

Yes, I am - if you'd like to know more, please drop me a pm.  I'm not at all like Mr Kizzy describes.  Unfortunately, the reverse isn't true.



#18 agradeneu OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:41 AM

I'm sure Atari could have sold alot more Lynxes in Europe if this thing was available in sufficient quantities. It was very hard to find a Lynx in the wild. Same with the Jaguar.Initial demand was quite high during early 1994, but only very limited numbers ever crossed the pond, then probably lots of preorders were cancelled. 

 

Cheers for the reply. I knew those Artemis screenshots reminded me of stuff I had read and seen about 25 years ago!

Many people seem to think that had Atari focussed on Europe things could have been a little different. I tend to agree too.

Looking forward to seeing more vids :)


Edited by agradeneu, Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:49 AM.


#19 agradeneu OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:48 AM

I'll totally vouch for Jenovi. He's far more meticulous with his research than I am, and he's too damn busy to get involved with...certain people. ;)

Still alot of fan fiction, like the mock up boxes of Aero the Acrobat or AvP 2.  IMO its problematic to mix up facts with fiction or including  game footage not even running on Jaguar hardware. It intentionally blurs the line and will just create new rumours, hearsays and fairy tales. Very entertaining, but take it with a grain of salt.


Edited by agradeneu, Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:52 AM.


#20 Andrew Rosa OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:02 PM

Still alot of fan fiction, like the mock up boxes of Aero the Acrobat or AvP 2.  IMO its problematic to mix up facts with fiction or including  game footage not even running on Jaguar hardware. It intentionally blurs the line and will just create new rumours, hearsays and fairy tales. Very entertaining, but take it with a grain of salt.

Not if people are actually paying attention to the video. For example, the two games mentioned here. The box art is clearly a fan-made mock-up since neither title made it very far in development. Hence, no box. Also, the game footage is tagged with its source. If people have difficulty reading, or employing any kind of common sense, that's hardly Jenovi's problem. 

Besides, people are quite capable of creating more rumors and fairy tales without these videos. Just watch Laird's Lair or Top Hot Gaming Man. They're living proof.



#21 madman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:31 PM

If people have difficulty reading, or employing any kind of common sense, that's hardly Jenovi's problem. 

You must be new to the Jag forum.



#22 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:37 PM

You already know me, i am The Furthest Man From Home on your YT channel comments section and i have in the past shared findings on things like AVP on your Lost 32X games video.

Welcome to Atari Age B-)

My humble advice and i say this as someone who has spent a number of years assisting the likes of Unseen64, Atarimania, GTW and many others research and document lost Atari A8, 7800, Panther,Jaguar and ST games, is this:

Take the established GTW approach..

Research as much as humanly possible..

Never use magazine claims as anything but a starting point for your research..

Use multiple sources..

Ask the community for assistance, there is no better resource..

And even when you get an answer..keep looking.

New information crops up just when you've exhausted all previous avenues.

Be careful over Jane Whittaker claims..Whittaker has issued statements that contradict themselves badly regarding time at Atari and Rebellion and regarding Power Crystal.

Unseen64 recently contacted Whittaker and gave the opportunity for the statements to be cleared up once and for all..Whittaker declined to answer as did a fellow Rebellion employe who joined Whittaker in the USA.

There's clearly some festering wounds still present from that era.

Atarimania is a great resource.

You will find the invaluable internal documentation Scott Stilphen passed onto myself and i shared using my Atari I.O user name, lost Dragon which sheds light on many lost Jaguar games.

My interviews are free to use as you see fit..they are rough and ready but information presented as it came to me..just goggle Ross Sillifant interviews..easy to find.

I also updated the Jaguar entries on Unseen64.

These are credible sites.

As for the individual you named..

I think this thread should explain everything and i have zero connection to the site or person who posted the background info, so no bias here:
http://www.sega-16.c...ects!&styleid=9

#23 jenovi OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:00 PM

Still alot of fan fiction, like the mock up boxes of Aero the Acrobat or AvP 2.  IMO its problematic to mix up facts with fiction or including  game footage not even running on Jaguar hardware. It intentionally blurs the line and will just create new rumours, hearsays and fairy tales. Very entertaining, but take it with a grain of salt.

Actually, I make every box for every game I cover. If scans do exist, they are way too low of a resolution. There's no fiction in my videos just facts, and if I don't have facts I openly state when it's my opinion or that it's speculation. I've sighted sources, and maintain a large list of sources for every game I discuss. I personally feel like this series and my past series have gone a long way to dispelling what games were actually in development for certain platforms while giving details regarding their history when possible. If it was purely for entertainment, I wouldn't bother doing any research and would only cover the interesting stories, not the entire library of unreleased games. Anyways, glad you found it entertaining. 



#24 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:08 PM

The other things i would suggest:

Try reaching people others including myself :-)) have failed to reach.

For example Atari UK during Jaguar era was far more than Darryl Still,Mike Fulton and Bob Katz.

Peter Walker dealt with the initial Jaguar P.R prior to it's launch and Bob Gleadow was head of Atari UK.


Same for developers..Arcade Attack do fantastic work speaking to the lower profile people who worked on high profile games.

Follow their example..

Caspain Software (just taking a UK source) were more than just Matthew Gosling, fresh voices make for better coverage as your covering ground others have attempted already on YT.

Have a read through the Jaguar section here:

https://www.unseen64.../others/jaguar/

Lots of soundbites/quotes/reports from the time and you'll find details of all the planned Jaguar Games by Beyond Games etc.

As for sales figures and this applies to any system,not just Atari systems...

It's wiser to present them as suggested figures and state sources that present the numbers,rather than as actual.

Your viewers are adults and given a source and a number quoted in context can decide for themselves and indeed can often come forward with sources of their own.

I honestly cannot stress the importance of using multiple sources, highly enough..You'll be asking people to try and remember events from many years ago and it's only natural confusion will Creep in,plus as we've seen, people like Jez San, Martin Hooley etc have given versions of events that have been proven to be very different to what's been found on internal documentation or accounts given by their employees.

People often forget what actually was released or being worked on for what Atari platform as Atari had such a habit of annoucing new hardware only to drop it and want people to get behind the next big thing they had planned.


Cyrano Jones doesn't need me to blow smoke up his behind :-))

His work,just as that of so many others on here speaks volumes.

Look at what he, Songbird,Piko Interactive etc have provided for the community and the partnerships they've formed with the Oliver Twins, Jeff Minter, Bitmap Bros etc..

Unbelievable goodwill.

We also have Clint Thompson with the vision of trying to build a working Jaguar Duo where as others think doing a YT video on it is equal to great vision.

If you feel you want to ask any Qs of myself..just drop us a PM.

And above all else..best of luck with the videos..that's a hellva long road you've set out on :-)

#25 Andrew Rosa OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:57 AM

You must be new to the Jag forum.

Valid point.







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