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RXB and my modded TI problem.


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#1 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:29 PM

Ok, so. I picked up a RXB 2015 cartridge. First off, I love it. It's fantastic! But, I'm having one problem.

When I use it with my F18 modded console with 32k ram expansion built into the console, and my CF7+, it works well for a minute or two, then the screen goes all crazy and the system locks up. I do not have that problem with any other cart. TI extended basic 110 works fine, as does every other cart I have.

When I use the RXB in my non-modded console, and my nanoPEB, it works perfectly. No problems at all. It's great.

Is there a known compatibility issue with RXB and internal 32k mod and/or with the F18 or CF7+? Or could there be a problem with the cartridge port on that particular console? Every other cart works fine. I tried it without the CF7 connected and it still went haywire after a few minutes.

Man, I get some doozies of problems..lol. Nothing is ever easy.
Any ideas? Anything I should look for on that console?

Thanks guys, I know I'm a pain in the ass..
Dave.

#2 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:01 PM

Well RXB 2015 does have a modification on start up by Tony Kneer (Gazoo).

***********************************************************
[3830]               * RXB PATCH FOR GAZOO HARDWARE CART TO SET ROMS

99/4 GPL-ASSEMBLER (Pass 3) correct                                   PAGE 0072 
EDIT-359
[3831] 7EA3 86,AF,35 NOMENU CLR   V@>35D7       Clear menu flag
       7EA6 D7
[3832] 7EA7 BF,A8,CE         DST   >994A,V@2254 Set loader flag
       7EAA 99,4A
[3833] 7EAC 31,00,0A         MOVE  10,G@DSCLOD,V@>2256
       7EAF AF,22,56
       7EB2 63,51
[3834] 7EB4 5E,D1            BR    MENUGO
[3835]               ***********************************************************
[3836] 7EB6 00,00,7E MENU   DATA  0,MENUUP
       7EB9 CC
[3837] 7EBA 11              BYTE  17
[3838] 7EBB 52,58,42        TEXT  'RXB 2015  MENU   '
       7EBE 20,32,30
       7EC1 31,35,20
       7EC4 20,4D,45
       7EC7 4E,55,20
       7ECA 20,20
[3839] 7ECC BE,AF,35 MENUUP ST    >F0,V@>35D7   Set MENU/REDO flag
       7ECF D7,F0
[3840] 7ED1 87,8F,DD MENUGO DCLR  @>6000        SET ROM BANKS FOR GAZZO CART
       7ED4 00
[3841] 7ED5 43,72           BR    TOPLEV        Restart but below CLR bytes
[3842]               ***********************************************************
[3843]                      END

I do not know if it is the DCLR @>6000 on start up of Cart or the only other cause would be the 2 bytes modified in XB ROMs?

 

But those are from GKXB so I doubt that could be a cause as those in in SXB and XB 2.5 or XB 2.6 too.

 

The modified code Gazoo created is not in RXB 2019 I am working on as I fixed the issue he had with the menu screen.

(Even though he is no longer with us now.)



#3 Ksarul OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:19 PM

One question: do you have any of the other UberGROM-based cartridges (XB 2.7 Suite, Winkler Expanded BASIC 3.0, Triple XB, XB Fun, the Triton SEB Suite, Break Free, or Tutankham)? Just looking to see if it is somehow a hardware manifestation. . .



#4 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:31 PM

One question: do you have any of the other UberGROM-based cartridges (XB 2.7 Suite, Winkler Expanded BASIC 3.0, Triple XB, XB Fun, the Triton SEB Suite, Break Free, or Tutankham)? Just looking to see if it is somehow a hardware manifestation. . .


No. RXB is the first and only I have ever used. Like I mentioned, it works fine on my other console. It only acts up with my modded console.

#5 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:49 PM

Well RXB 2015 does have a modification on start up by Tony Kneer (Gazoo).

***********************************************************
[3830]               * RXB PATCH FOR GAZOO HARDWARE CART TO SET ROMS

99/4 GPL-ASSEMBLER (Pass 3) correct                                   PAGE 0072 
EDIT-359
[3831] 7EA3 86,AF,35 NOMENU CLR   V@>35D7       Clear menu flag
       7EA6 D7
[3832] 7EA7 BF,A8,CE         DST   >994A,V@2254 Set loader flag
       7EAA 99,4A
[3833] 7EAC 31,00,0A         MOVE  10,G@DSCLOD,V@>2256
       7EAF AF,22,56
       7EB2 63,51
[3834] 7EB4 5E,D1            BR    MENUGO
[3835]               ***********************************************************
[3836] 7EB6 00,00,7E MENU   DATA  0,MENUUP
       7EB9 CC
[3837] 7EBA 11              BYTE  17
[3838] 7EBB 52,58,42        TEXT  'RXB 2015  MENU   '
       7EBE 20,32,30
       7EC1 31,35,20
       7EC4 20,4D,45
       7EC7 4E,55,20
       7ECA 20,20
[3839] 7ECC BE,AF,35 MENUUP ST    >F0,V@>35D7   Set MENU/REDO flag
       7ECF D7,F0
[3840] 7ED1 87,8F,DD MENUGO DCLR  @>6000        SET ROM BANKS FOR GAZZO CART
       7ED4 00
[3841] 7ED5 43,72           BR    TOPLEV        Restart but below CLR bytes
[3842]               ***********************************************************
[3843]                      END
I do not know if it is the DCLR @>6000 on start up of Cart or the only other cause would be the 2 bytes modified in XB ROMs?
 
But those are from GKXB so I doubt that could be a cause as those in in SXB and XB 2.5 or XB 2.6 too.
 
The modified code Gazoo created is not in RXB 2019 I am working on as I fixed the issue he had with the menu screen.
(Even though he is no longer with us now.)

Man, I wish I knew what all that means! I'm not even going to pretend I can understand that. I like your XB though! It's great!

#6 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:54 PM

Wonder if it makes a difference what kind of RAM expansion you have internally (8 or 16)... might not like 16-bit RAM?

#7 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:36 PM

Wonder if it makes a difference what kind of RAM expansion you have internally (8 or 16)... might not like 16-bit RAM?


Yeah, I am wondering if it is the console itself that has been causing most of my problems. Someone on the Facebook page mentioned trying to install a switch to "turn off" the in console imbedded ram expansion. I don't know if that is possible, as I don't know how the guy did the modification.

#8 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:47 PM

evidence supports your theory..   If it only does it on one console.. its the console..  I tested that cart here on stock 32k and sidecar32k all good  so far just the one console..  likely something in the cart port is different, a voltage is different or the 16bit ram mod is using something that rxb or the ubergrom needs to use.  

 

Greg



#9 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:10 PM

evidence supports your theory..   If it only does it on one console.. its the console..  I tested that cart here on stock 32k and sidecar32k all good  so far just the one console..  likely something in the cart port is different, a voltage is different or the 16bit ram mod is using something that rxb or the ubergrom needs to use.  
 
Greg


Yeah, I agree. Something with that console is messed up. I know the cart itself is fine because it works perfectly on my stock TI.

Is there a way to disable the ram expansion on my modded console? You know, cut a wire, like they do in the movies? Just in time..

#10 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:34 PM

When I use it with my F18 modded console with 32k ram expansion built into the console, and my CF7+, it works well for a minute or two, then the screen goes all crazy and the system locks up. I do not have that problem with any other cart. TI extended basic 110 works fine, as does every other cart I have.
 

Is there 32K installed in your CF7+ /and/ the console, i.e., both in use at the same time? 



#11 apersson850 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:36 AM

I have a console that's modified to include 64 K RAM, all at 16-bit wide bus. Half of that is used for a fast, internal 32 K RAM expansion. Now I don't have RXB, but there are a few programs (like the game Tennis), that doesn't work with that memory. The program doesn't access VDP RAM correctly, when the memory has no wait states.

Since BASIC relies heavily on VDP RAM, it's of course not impossible that it has a similar issue. Exactly what happens is then of course a question about what it's trying to do when timing gets wrong. In the Tennis case, the game kind of still works, but the players split up in two halves (they are obviously two combined sprites), where the upper and lower parts of the body runs in different directions.

 

My memory expansion is my own design. It's augmented by hardware which allows the VDP to run properly at full memory speed (this hardware inserts the required wait, but only when accessing the VDP, hence not slowing down anything else). If I enable that hardware, Tennis works as intended. It's just impossible to beat, since it runs significantly faster. It's more like table-tennis.

I can also, using CRU bits, disable my internal memory, in which case the console falls back to the normal 32 K RAM expansion, if there is one. Then everything works normally, of course.

 

This RAM expansion is my own design. I've never seen anybody else come up with that particular idea, so I doubt there are more than a handful consoles (those I was involved in modifying) that have it.



#12 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:49 AM

Is there 32K installed in your CF7+ /and/ the console, i.e., both in use at the same time?


No sir, my CF7 is without the memory chip.

#13 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:34 PM

No sir, my CF7 is without the memory chip.

Super old then

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#14 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:50 PM

Do you think this could cause my problem? (Not my picture, I got it from Google). If mine has dirty contacts could it effect only that one cartridge?

Attached File  image.jpeg   39.67KB   3 downloads

#15 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:51 PM

^ I'd clean the cartridge port real well (using DeOxit or similar electrical contact cleaner) just to eliminate the possibility.

#16 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:25 PM

^ I'd clean the cartridge port real well (using DeOxit or similar electrical contact cleaner) just to eliminate the possibility.



I have one I pulled from another TI. I cleaned everything with electrical contact cleaner, and removed the dirty felt sponge thing. I will swap it out tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

#17 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:05 AM

I have one I pulled from another TI. I cleaned everything with electrical contact cleaner, and removed the dirty felt sponge thing. I will swap it out tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

I have nos ones if you need one

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#18 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:35 PM

Replacing the cartridge port definatly made a difference. It works much better now, although the computer still locks up from time to time while using the RXB cartridge. (And only the RXB cart). It must be the "in console" ram expansion is conflicting with the uberGrom based cartridge.

I would like to add, it used to lock up and the screen would just go crazy with random garbage displayed after about 5 minutes of use.

Now, after I replaced the port, it works well for about 20 minutes and the computer just freezes, locks up. No crazy screen garbage, just a locked up computer. It's gotta be the ram expansion. Oh well.

#19 Ed in SoDak OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 2, 2019 4:53 PM

How warm does it run? Mine used to be left running a BBS program for extended periods and sometimes crashed. It behaved much better when I placed a small 12-volt computer fan over the cooling slots behind the cartridge port. I powered the fan with its own wallwart robbed from my hoard. I chose a 3-volt wart, as the fan is much quieter and still cools adequately. I just set it in place during long sessions. In just a couple minutes the "coffee warmer" feels cool to the touch.

 

RXB might be a resource hog performing more chip-level accesses. That, along with the load of your add-on board(s) = more heat. The RXB cart itself might be more temp-sensitive than other "standard" carts you've tried.

 

High line voltage might be an issue at your location. That makes the regulators in the console shed more heat. A flaky cart connection wastes power by voltage drop which again dissipates as heat and contributes to bit errors. One reason why cleaning the port helps!

-Ed


Edited by Ed in SoDak, Sat Feb 2, 2019 4:57 PM.

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#20 HOME AUTOMATION OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:34 PM

IIRC the UBERGROM is supposed to be able to override(overcurrent?) GROM. Does it try and do the same of RAM??? :ponder:



#21 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:49 PM

How warm does it run? Mine used to be left running a BBS program for extended periods and sometimes crashed. It behaved much better when I placed a small 12-volt computer fan over the cooling slots behind the cartridge port. I powered the fan with its own wallwart robbed from my hoard. I chose a 3-volt wart, as the fan is much quieter and still cools adequately. I just set it in place during long sessions. In just a couple minutes the "coffee warmer" feels cool to the touch.

 

RXB might be a resource hog performing more chip-level accesses. That, along with the load of your add-on board(s) = more heat. The RXB cart itself might be more temp-sensitive than other "standard" carts you've tried.

 

High line voltage might be an issue at your location. That makes the regulators in the console shed more heat. A flaky cart connection wastes power by voltage drop which again dissipates as heat and contributes to bit errors. One reason why cleaning the port helps!

-Ed

RXB does not really hog any more resources then normal XB.

 

It does offer more access if you are using CALL IO to control CRU 9901 chip or playing music from VDP loaded using CALL IO while running an XB program I have demoed.

 

I do not know how RXB could possibly hog more resources over any other cart as it is all GPL and some assembly but those are only 12 bytes in size Assembly programs for CRU access.

 

I think Tursi can attest to this fact about RXB not being anymore of a resource hog over XB.



#22 Tursi OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 3, 2019 12:46 AM

IIRC the UBERGROM is supposed to be able to override(overcurrent?) GROM. Does it try and do the same of RAM??? :ponder:

 

The GROM side is just a TTL level GROM, but the one that ships for the UberGROM is not capable of overwriting the console GROMs, it deliberately will not respond to that address range. Nothing in the cartridge port is able to respond to the RAM memory range (at least not deliberately ;) ).

 

Can't say why you're having problems. I know a number of people are running RXB without issues.


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#23 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 3, 2019 11:01 AM

How warm does it run? Mine used to be left running a BBS program for extended periods and sometimes crashed. It behaved much better when I placed a small 12-volt computer fan over the cooling slots behind the cartridge port. I powered the fan with its own wallwart robbed from my hoard. I chose a 3-volt wart, as the fan is much quieter and still cools adequately. I just set it in place during long sessions. In just a couple minutes the "coffee warmer" feels cool to the touch.

 

RXB might be a resource hog performing more chip-level accesses. That, along with the load of your add-on board(s) = more heat. The RXB cart itself might be more temp-sensitive than other "standard" carts you've tried.

 

High line voltage might be an issue at your location. That makes the regulators in the console shed more heat. A flaky cart connection wastes power by voltage drop which again dissipates as heat and contributes to bit errors. One reason why cleaning the port helps!

-Ed

 

 I tried again after reading this.  It is not a heat issue, the computer locked up after about 3 minutes this time.  The "coffee warmer" area was still cool to the touch.



#24 DavidC OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 4, 2019 6:58 PM

Ok, as a follow up to let you all know. I ran a simple Sprite animation program on the console that locks up with RXB, using standard XB. It took about a hour, but the console locked up. It just froze. So it is obviously the console itself that is messed up. I'm still not sure why, but the RXB itself has nothing to do with it.




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