Jump to content

Photo

“Fully working” av modded Sears super video arcade no real picture


21 replies to this topic

#1 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:38 AM

Bought an av modded super video arcade off eBay the buyer said was fully working. The first time I turned it on I got a start screen and the game played but the graphics were wonky. I tried another game and got pinkish screen or black screen. Thoroughly tested the switch. Checked connections. Start screen came back three times then needed to hit reset once to get start screen then five times then could only get black, pink, green or white screen. Tried with lcd and crt; av out and RF out. Also cleaned the cart slot well. Does this ring any bells as far as the issue? Thanks.



#2 save2600 OFFLINE  

save2600

    Quadrunner

  • 15,473 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:51 AM

Something may have happened in transit. I see you're in MN... so between the freezing cold weather and the careless handling practices of today, I'd start by reseating the chips inside the metal shield of your system.

Assuming you didn't take it right out of the package and plug it in? If electronics are brought in from the extreme cold and not allowed to thaw/get up to room temp, condensation on the PCB can short things out.

#3 Bamse OFFLINE  

Bamse

    Moonsweeper

  • 271 posts

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:16 AM

These don't always travel so well especially with some of the treatment parcels get by some carriers.
Could be a bad capacitor. I'm sure I've seen the same symptoms caused by a bad capacitor on a YouTube video

#4 IMBerzerk OFFLINE  

IMBerzerk

    Moonsweeper

  • 256 posts
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:06 AM

It doesn't sound too serious because you're at least getting a title screen and playing a game. First, stick with the RF out connection, work with that since this is a modded set, you don't know the quality/reliability of the parts and workmanship. Pick one game, clean the contacts with a q-tip and copious amounts of rubbing alcohol. Net, if you have an old business card, soak that in some alcohol and clean the contacts of the unit. Now jam the cart in and out several times and clean the unit contacts again. Turn on unit and see if it hold the game. Start there first, you'd be surprised how sensitive these units are.

Next step is the power board, see if the large capacitor is loose, check all the other components on it the same. Gently remove the power ribbon and reinsert it. Remake all connections and see what you get.

Before you take the main board apart, let us know if this helps. There are some power points to check with a meter on that power board. Hopefully someone can post those.

JR

#5 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:14 AM

Not much time this morning, but had similar results. One out of about 20 times the start screen came up for Star Strike and the game played but the earths water was pink instead of blue. Turned it off and on, now the start screen had all the wrong letters. After this more cycles/ resets just give black or pink screen.

#6 IMBerzerk OFFLINE  

IMBerzerk

    Moonsweeper

  • 256 posts
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:26 AM

Sounds like the STIC chip has an issue.

Before doing that, here is a link to the service manual. Look through it. Page 2-7 has the voltage test points on the power board. Check that first.

http://atariage.com/...model-2609-pdf/

#7 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:15 AM

Something may have happened in transit. I see you're in MN... so between the freezing cold weather and the careless handling practices of today, I'd start by reseating the chips inside the metal shield of your system. TIA, CPU, etc.

Assuming you didn't take it right out of the package and plug it in? If electronics are brought in from the extreme cold and not allowed to thaw/get up to room temp, condensation on the PCB can short things out.


Thanks for info. It sat at room temp for about eight hours before turning on.

#8 mr_me OFFLINE  

mr_me

    River Patroller

  • 3,827 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:15 AM

That colour of light-blue can look pink on some displays. After checking voltages and continuity over the ribbon cable, Inspect the main-board closely for bad solder.

#9 -^Cro§Bow^- OFFLINE  

-^Cro§Bow^-

    Quadrunner

  • 6,878 posts
  • Collector of Fine Atari and Sega Antiquities!
  • Location:Ivory Tower, Fantasia (Oklahoma)

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:51 AM

Yeap...I've seen this happen on several I've AV modded and it appears to be an LCD thing in regards to the colors being off. That being said, it is also the reason why I'm pretty partial to the AV boards from the guy in Turkey as his boards have always produces really good results for me.

 

As for the scrambled letters on the start screen, I just dealt with this on an Intelly 2 that I had AV modded for an AA member here. It ended up being a bad STIC causing that issue and as far as I've been told, it has been working fine since. I wonder if the modder re-attached the RF shielding on the main board? Many don't but I always do to help further with interference issues. Also one of the reasons I don't mount the AV boards in the empty space on the left of the console. It is too close to the noisy transformer and power section.



#10 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:28 AM

Anybody selling STIC chips? Evidence points to this. I hear people say to buy a junk inty for parts, but it seems like a dubious place to look for chips that are most problematic.

 

Edit: Actually, I tried the junk inty method and bought an Inty 1 for $20 on eBay. However, it worked so well, I didn't want to mess with it.



#11 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:17 AM

That colour of light-blue can look pink on some displays. After checking voltages and continuity over the ribbon cable, Inspect the main-board closely for bad solder.

 

 

Yeap...I've seen this happen on several I've AV modded and it appears to be an LCD thing in regards to the colors being off. That being said, it is also the reason why I'm pretty partial to the AV boards from the guy in Turkey as his boards have always produces really good results for me.

 

As for the scrambled letters on the start screen, I just dealt with this on an Intelly 2 that I had AV modded for an AA member here. It ended up being a bad STIC causing that issue and as far as I've been told, it has been working fine since. I wonder if the modder re-attached the RF shielding on the main board? Many don't but I always do to help further with interference issues. Also one of the reasons I don't mount the AV boards in the empty space on the left of the console. It is too close to the noisy transformer and power section.

The general problems with getting a start screen are also present on the CRT, but I'm going to keep it on the CRT with RF and see what I get for the picture if I can get it back.



#12 -^Cro§Bow^- OFFLINE  

-^Cro§Bow^-

    Quadrunner

  • 6,878 posts
  • Collector of Fine Atari and Sega Antiquities!
  • Location:Ivory Tower, Fantasia (Oklahoma)

Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:06 PM

Anybody selling STIC chips? Evidence points to this. I hear people say to buy a junk inty for parts, but it seems like a dubious place to look for chips that are most problematic.

 

Yes... Humblejack has them available. That is where I bought the STIC that I then had HJ send to the client so they could pop it in and get it up and running again.



#13 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:44 AM

Okay with more playing using RF and CRT I have observed several times in a row ( with at least a couple hours in between) that everything looks and works great for about the first seven minutes and then the sprites get garbled and then reset or power cycle gives way to only a pink or black screen. Is this the dreaded over heating problem or a bad chip and can it be fixed? Thanks.

Also, I just checked the composite on the crt with Star Strike and the water on Earth is pink rather than blue, just like on the LCD, so it looks like the AV mod has issues as well. I think this unit is going back from whence it came.

#14 SiLic0ne t0aD OFFLINE  

SiLic0ne t0aD

    River Patroller

  • 2,398 posts
  • Rock 'N Roller, Space Patroller
  • Location:Ohio Valley

Posted Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:58 PM

Could be SRAM too, maybe.. I've had trouble with that chip in particular, with one of my Intys, which produced some really odd graphical glitches. Replacing it fixed the problem immediately. Could be a couple of the transistors on the motherboard too... Sounds like they're heating up, then once overheated, the graphics start "misbehaving".

Lots of different variables there, and it's best to start with the easy stuff first, then take it from there, depending on your skill, patience level, etc. If you don't feel like tinkering with it and the seller is willing to have you return/refund it, then maybe just do that instead. Troubleshooting can be a real PITA sometimes. Either way, good luck!

BTW, if you really like the Sears shell, you could just swap the top, over to the working console, along with the controller port headers/wires/DB9 plugs... Or vice versa, swap the good motherboard into the Sears shell. Either way, they're compatible and that's what I did with my Sears Intellivision.. It's a Sears top shell on a regular 2609 Intellivision bottom shell/mobo. :)

#15 IMBerzerk OFFLINE  

IMBerzerk

    Moonsweeper

  • 256 posts
  • Location:Long Island, NY

Posted Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:10 PM

Then it's not a true Sears unit as the title screens will show the "Mattel Electronic presents". Better to open it and reseat the main chips. Start there.

If the shell is in really nice shape, it might be worth keeping. The Sears units are hard to find without yellowing, deep scratches in the paint...etc. depending on what you paid. If go for another beatup, but working Inty and swap the chips to a know good motherboard so you know your Sears set works. If they do, swap boards

With these old units, you need a spare set to test with and pull parts from. It's just to be expected

JR

#16 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Sun Feb 3, 2019 7:47 PM

Then it's not a true Sears unit as the title screens will show the "Mattel Electronic presents". Better to open it and reseat the main chips. Start there.

If the shell is in really nice shape, it might be worth keeping. The Sears units are hard to find without yellowing, deep scratches in the paint...etc. depending on what you paid. If go for another beatup, but working Inty and swap the chips to a know good motherboard so you know your Sears set works. If they do, swap boards

With these old units, you need a spare set to test with and pull parts from. It's just to be expected

JR


Okay, so, I decided to keep it and hope I could fix it because it had a great picture for the RF. The composite was good except for the pink water. It also had the only decent working reset button of the 3 intys I have and came with two good working controllers. I'm hoping maybe the composite can be improved as well. I have heard you can use an IC to clean up the power rather than going straight from the 5V pin.

 

Anyhow, I spent about eight hours working on it the last three days. I cleaned the switches, RF port and cart port with detoxit and I moved the cart port teeth out a bit. I reseated all the socketed chips. Again, worked good for 7-10 minutes and then graphics corruption for a minute and then only pink or black screen. I used another spare Intellivision 1 that has lost its reset board dome, somehow, and tried swapping power board and transformer from the Sears to the Intellivision and the Intellivision worked good. Then I put the sears back together and tried the Intellivision logic board in the Sears and it worked good. So that narrowed it down to the sears logic board. I switched all the socketed ICs on the Intellivision board to the Sears board. Things got a little confused here because I later found a bent pin on one of the ICs I'd reseated that I missed because it was under and between two of the winged heat sinks (what crappy heat sinks) and also with all my experimentation, the ribbon cable started getting to where it was not connecting well. 

 

The Intellivision with all the corresponding nine-ish Sears chips moved to it worked good. For the Sears console, I ended up having to solder wires to the 5 pin contacts and trying to plug the wires into the power board connector, which sucked because the pin contacts are about a mm apart and I suck at precision soldering, so it took me about 3-4 times to get it right. After this I tried it and it ran for 20 min before graphic corruption and pink screen. I tried to adjust the wires poked into the connectors and the last time it ran for a half hour with no problems noticed, except I had to re-insert the cart once. I still need a better solution for the ribbon cable on the Sears to see if it will continue to work better.

 

I noticed one of the ICs with the heat sink on it (the one on the far right without another one above it) and the two transistors above it on the board all get very hot.

 

Ultimately, I am hoping it was a ribbon cable going bad and the heat was expanding it to cause partial contact loss after a few minutes. I'll be able to tell better once I find a good ribbon cable replacement and install it. Otherwise, I will need to look into the three items that are getting too hot. I have to check out voltages on the power and transistors also, but that seems pointless if the ribbon connector hasn't been replaced.

 

Also, I don't care much for the on-switch on the Sears model, seems like it doesn't give space to quite fully switch to the on position like I would like. Another 2mm of open space to the right of the switch would have been nice.

 

In another subject, the intellivision 1 used above seems to intermittently have problems with the controllers working, even though I have added known working controllers to it.

 

P.S., I am going to try these for a ribbon cable replacement. May be way too long and have to modify.

https://www.ebay.com...872.m2749.l2649



#17 Swami OFFLINE  

Swami

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,620 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 5:06 PM

Even if replacing the ribbon cable makes the Sears unit run without crashing, the power regulators the CPU and the two transistors next to it all will still get pretty hot. So, I am wondering if it would be a good idea to take out the bottom RF shield and put a usb powered computer fan on the floor of the base and put a couple risers under the bottom to increase air flow and cooling to increase its health and longevity. Currently waiting on ribbon replacement.



#18 intvsteve ONLINE  

intvsteve

    River Patroller

  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:At the keyboard

Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 5:58 PM

Seems like a good ersatz part.  You can pretty easily fold the extra and put a rubber band or cable tie around it.



#19 intvsteve ONLINE  

intvsteve

    River Patroller

  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:At the keyboard

Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 6:02 PM

I can't remember if the original is 4 or 5 inches.  Here are some options at DigiKey:

 

https://www.digikey....e=1&pageSize=25

 

These don't come with handy connectors with them, though.  Haven't tracked those down yet.



#20 -^Cro§Bow^- OFFLINE  

-^Cro§Bow^-

    Quadrunner

  • 6,878 posts
  • Collector of Fine Atari and Sega Antiquities!
  • Location:Ivory Tower, Fantasia (Oklahoma)

Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 6:44 PM

Could also do what I did on my Sears unit to reduce the heat. I took out the original VRs and swapped in DC-DC converters in their place. Only thing that gets hot in there now is the transformer but nearly enough to cause any issues and it is pretty well isolated from the rest of the stuff.



#21 nick3092 OFFLINE  

nick3092

    Chopper Commander

  • 178 posts

Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 8:39 PM

How well do the DC-DC converters work in the Inty? Using anything switching in older devices designed for linear makes me worry about electrical noise.

#22 -^Cro§Bow^- OFFLINE  

-^Cro§Bow^-

    Quadrunner

  • 6,878 posts
  • Collector of Fine Atari and Sega Antiquities!
  • Location:Ivory Tower, Fantasia (Oklahoma)

Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 12:33 PM

How well do the DC-DC converters work in the Inty? Using anything switching in older devices designed for linear makes me worry about electrical noise.

Haven't experienced any issues at all from it. I don't detect any logic noise or anything. Then again, I'm using the slightly more expensive $10+ each DC-DC converters. All of my classic consoles with the exception of the Genesis have these in them now. They run much cooler and with the exception of the Genesis, I've not seen or heard anything odd while playing games.

 

Now I will state that using these in addition to the old linear power supplies can cause the old supplies to start buzzing a bit. Or at least my TubroDUO's AC adapter will start buzzing after a few hours of play. I do hear some logic noise in the audio on the TurboDUO with the two DC-DC converters it has installed, but that is only when playing games from the Everdrive. Actual HuCards and CD is quiet so it would seem the ED is able to pick up some noise from the converters. Then again, it could be picking up noise from just about anywhere since I had those DC-DC converters in place before I picked up the ED so I can't say it is those converters causing it.

 

Could also be the fact that the digital meter on the house is literally opposite of the wall where my consoles are could be generating lord knows what on the RF spectrum for its wireless control that the utility company has on them.


Edited by -^Cro§Bow^-, Wed Feb 6, 2019 12:34 PM.





0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users