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PS5 May Be Fully Backwards Compatible

PS5 Backwards Compatible Compatibility

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#26 power OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 3:31 PM

.

 

And Atari put a 2600 into a 7800...let's not forget that. I'm not sure who truly invented backward compatibility. I guess you could say the 5200 and Coleco and eventually the Intellivision. But they created separate devices that were basically clones that borrowed the power and video from the parent consoles they plugged into. Yeah...the 7800 might technically be the first built in backwards compatible system and I believe it was always designed to be from the beginning?

 

absolutely but the way people carry on about back compat on XB1, gimme a break. Yes it's good but MS are doing this for one reason to bulk out a VERY lacklustre library and sell game pass subs. There are so few first party and exclusive games on XB1 it really hurts.

 

while we're on Atari the XE and XL lines were all compatible with each other up to a point. If you bought the XE machines you had an instant library available at launch and a company committed to making new games.

 

If Sony re-introduce their whole library as back compat i'd still be happy but the kudos MS are getting is just a bit overblown IMO. 

 

Where was the props for Nintendo when the Wii launched or the Wii U? I mean it was so good for the Wii you could even use your old controllers! Does the XB1 allow you to use 360 controllers??? NOPE. The Wii U continued the trend of HW and SW back compat. And now Switch is the darling and there's none of the great back compat just over priced re-releases, and they are getting a free pass from this - it SUCKS.


Edited by power, Tue Feb 5, 2019 3:35 PM.


#27 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 7:16 PM

absolutely but the way people carry on about back compat on XB1, gimme a break. Yes it's good but MS are doing this for one reason to bulk out a VERY lacklustre library and sell game pass subs. There are so few first party and exclusive games on XB1 it really hurts.
 
while we're on Atari the XE and XL lines were all compatible with each other up to a point. If you bought the XE machines you had an instant library available at launch and a company committed to making new games.
 
If Sony re-introduce their whole library as back compat i'd still be happy but the kudos MS are getting is just a bit overblown IMO. 
 
Where was the props for Nintendo when the Wii launched or the Wii U? I mean it was so good for the Wii you could even use your old controllers! Does the XB1 allow you to use 360 controllers??? NOPE. The Wii U continued the trend of HW and SW back compat. And now Switch is the darling and there's none of the great back compat just over priced re-releases, and they are getting a free pass from this - it SUCKS.


Wait... are you saying you need to pay for XBL to use the BC feature??

#28 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 7:49 PM

.And Atari put a 2600 into a 7800...let's not forget that. I'm not sure who truly invented backward compatibility. I guess you could say the 5200 and Coleco and eventually the Intellivision. But they created separate devices that were basically clones that borrowed the power and video from the parent consoles they plugged into. Yeah...the 7800 might technically be the first built in backwards compatible system and I believe it was always designed to be from the beginning?

 

It was designed to be because the 5200 wasn't and the thought was that that was a big reason why it failed. Nobody knew what the expectations of consumers were at that time, but it turned out that consumers expected the software they'd already bought for a company's system to work with subsequent models put out by that same company. There were a lot of reviews and news articles in the press where the writers seemed downright confused about the fact that they couldn't run their 2600 games on the 5200, and I think that reflected consumers' thinking as well. And that even extended initially to the Intellivision and Coleco Vision - you can find plenty of articles from that time that talk about these systems and say things like "but it can't play games from the most popular system, the Atari VCS." Everyone just expected every system to be able to play the most popular games at that time, and nobody had an idea that a new version of something would not be able to play games made for a simpler, older system.

 

Essentially it was like how we expect different PC's these days to work with older software, and even for computers with different operating systems (like Macs) to be able to run software made for the most popular OS (Windows).

 

That to me seems like kind of the natural order of things. I don't know when it changed in game consoles, or if it really ever has. You'd think if that thinking really changed, people wouldn't even be talking about the PS5 potentially being backward compatible - they still seem to care about it. It seems to me that it would be a big competitive advantage. I mean, MS tried a lot of stuff this generation with both the design and early features of the Xbox One to try to coax people who bought the system into sinking more money into it (e.g. by not being able to re-sell games), and they lost this generation badly as a result - a lot of it came off as cynical and anti-consumer. It's not all about how much money people spend post-purchase - you have to get people to buy your system in the first place. That's where backward compatibility matters, and I'm not sure that's any different now than it ever has been.

 

Somebody's going to counter my argument by saying the XB1 has a big backward compatible library, thereby disproving my theory, but it really doesn't. Only something like 30 original Xbox games work and a few hundred Xbox 360 games. It's hit or miss... and that's with only 2 previous generations. I think that in order to make backward compatibility a selling point, it has to be absolute. You can't say "it plays a selection of certain games!" because then nobody knows what those games are, and they don't want to keep having to consult a list when they either go out and buy a game, or even just think about dusting off an old copy of something they already have.

 

Backward compatibility also matters most at the beginning of a system's life when it has the smallest library of its own. People are more willing to buy early and then be patient if they can keep playing the games they already own while they wait for new ones. That helps build critical mass that gets those new games into production. The XB1 took a long time to get its backward compatibility going, and by the time it reached any acceptable level, it was too little, too late.



#29 Austin ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 8:57 PM

Wait... are you saying you need to pay for XBL to use the BC feature??


No, you do not. He just said you can't use 360 *controllers* on the One, which is true. While the dude's clearly got a chip on shoulder towards Microsoft, the lack of 360 controller compatibility has always been a pet peeve of mine (not even wired controllers work on the One).

#30 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 5:07 AM

The means of achieving backwards compatibility has changed. With 7800, it contained the same hardware as the old system -- just like Gameboy Advance and Wii U (and Wii before it with GameCube) did, and PlayStation 2 did.

That's expensive and impractical now, so they use software emulation, which is all that PS5 seems to be attempting. It remains to be seen if they'll pull it off. It doesn't seem to me they deserve a patent for this idea, but I don't really understand how those things work.

I think backwards compatibility is great, but it probably matters most when trying to build a subscription service, where choice and variety and pure quantity matters most. I suspect most people just play one game at a time. I wish I were more like that sometimes.

#31 power OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 9:10 PM

Wait... are you saying you need to pay for XBL to use the BC feature??

 

I am not, but many people have already gotten rid of old libraries - the back compat is a great way to add value to game pass which IS a dub.



#32 power OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 9:12 PM

No, you do not. He just said you can't use 360 *controllers* on the One, which is true. While the dude's clearly got a chip on shoulder towards Microsoft, the lack of 360 controller compatibility has always been a pet peeve of mine (not even wired controllers work on the One).

 

no chip at all - I can just see the writing on the wall.



#33 MrMaddog OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 11:29 PM

If this is true, then I for one might get one since I missed out on the previous generations and can't find disk games for those systems anymore.

 

 

Wait... are you saying you need to pay for XBL to use the BC feature??

 

Actually, you do need XBL to use cloud saves which are they only way to save 360 games but the annual cost is still worth it to build up a library of games compaired to having to buy each game seperately.

 

And why not?  Last gen games still hold up good on modern consoles and can even be upscaled to 4K on the X.  And BC is going to be very important when you can't find physical copies of games and orginal hardware to play them on in used game stores anymore...



#34 Austin ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2019 12:39 AM

Actually, you do need XBL to use cloud saves which are they only way to save 360 games but the annual cost is still worth it to build up a library of games compaired to having to buy each game seperately.


This is only partially correct. To use the cloud storage with backwards compatible 360 games on Xbox One, you only need a normal non-paid Xbox Live account (which just about everyone with a Xbox One should already have). The paid requirement is only if you are on an actual 360 console and want to transfer back to the cloud from said-360.

Edited by Austin, Thu Feb 7, 2019 12:41 AM.


#35 zzip OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2019 11:28 AM

 

I should have sat out PS4.  Got one at launch, it probably hasn't even been turned on for more than 24 hours total.

 

I'm the opposite I've sat out nearly every console generation between the 2600 and the Wii,  but got a PS4 and have had a blast with it.



#36 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2019 11:40 AM

I'm the opposite I've sat out nearly every console generation between the 2600 and the Wii,  but got a PS4 and have had a blast with it.

 

That's a good way to do it. Familiarity breeds contempt. I kinda envy you!



#37 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2019 12:13 PM

Prediction: backwards compatible but no optical drive. So you can play PS1234 games if you can get them onto the console. Which you can only do if you buy them (again) from Sony.

I wouldn't consider that true backwards compatibility.



#38 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2019 12:16 PM

 I suspect most people just play one game at a time. I wish I were more like that sometimes.

Wait, does this mean you play more than one game at a time? How? A controller in each hand? ;)


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#39 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 7, 2019 4:55 PM

I wouldn't consider that true backwards compatibility.


I think it would be a great compromise, actually. Not only would it stop the bellyaching of people who are allergic to physical media (and are more annoying than vegans in a steakhouse on the topic) but it would provide an easy repair path for the most fragile component of a modern system.

It makes sense, so obviously it'll never happen.

#40 -^CrožBow^- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 8, 2019 12:54 PM

No, you do not. He just said you can't use 360 *controllers* on the One, which is true. While the dude's clearly got a chip on shoulder towards Microsoft, the lack of 360 controller compatibility has always been a pet peeve of mine (not even wired controllers work on the One).

You can't use PS3 controllers on the PS4 either wired or otherwise. At least my Pro doesn't let me and tosses a message at me everytime I boot it up because I do still have a PS3 connected and use the PS4's USB port to charge the PS3 controllers.



#41 RARusk OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 8, 2019 1:19 PM

You can't use PS3 controllers on the PS4 either wired or otherwise. At least my Pro doesn't let me and tosses a message at me everytime I boot it up because I do still have a PS3 connected and use the PS4's USB port to charge the PS3 controllers.

Not without adapters. I got a Brook controller adapter at PAX South that allows you to use PS3 to PS4 or PS4 to PS3 and based on my limited playthrough on it it works pretty well. They also make a PS4 to PS2 adapter that I also have and it works well too.



#42 Mord OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 5:18 AM

Prediction: backwards compatible but no optical drive. So you can play PS1234 games if you can get them onto the console. Which you can only do if you buy them (again) from Sony.

 

Better prediction: Optical drive can stay. Odds are the backwards compatibility will be for sony's use, not ours. Much like what they have on the PS4 currently with PS2 games. ie: it will be only so sony can cheaply add games from the previous consoles to the PS5's store. Even if you have the original disc, the system will likely not understand it.



#43 Hyper_Eye OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 10:27 AM

Not without adapters. I got a Brook controller adapter at PAX South that allows you to use PS3 to PS4 or PS4 to PS3 and based on my limited playthrough on it it works pretty well. They also make a PS4 to PS2 adapter that I also have and it works well too.

I have one of those which allows 360 controllers to work on Xbox One (they have one that allows 360 and Xbox One controllers to work on PS4 as well.) I use it to connect my Xbox 360 wireless racing wheel to the Xbox One. Works great.



#44 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 7:26 PM

I have one of those which allows 360 controllers to work on Xbox One (they have one that allows 360 and Xbox One controllers to work on PS4 as well.) I use it to connect my Xbox 360 wireless racing wheel to the Xbox One. Works great.


Is this little gizmo considerably less than a controller?

#45 Hyper_Eye OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 7:37 PM

Is this little gizmo considerably less than a controller?

Considerably less than an Xbox One racing wheel with pedals.

Edited by Hyper_Eye, Sat Feb 9, 2019 7:37 PM.


#46 TheCoolDave OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:19 AM

 

Better prediction: Optical drive can stay. Odds are the backwards compatibility will be for sony's use, not ours. Much like what they have on the PS4 currently with PS2 games. ie: it will be only so sony can cheaply add games from the previous consoles to the PS5's store. Even if you have the original disc, the system will likely not understand it.

 

They might push a cheaper PS5 with no optical drive as an option(as think Microsoft will be offering one sooner than later) but, for sure they will have an optical drive option.  After what Microsoft did at launch of the Xbox one (digital games only), and the market outrage, I don't think Sony would want to make that mistake or be involved with something that might portray that image.

 

Backwards compatibility would be huge if they did that, after seeing how the market responded to how Microsoft is doing on the Xbox one... getting 360 games working, even some original Xbox games work and people are loving it. I think Sony will at least get PS4 games working but, it would be a HUGE thing if they could get PS1 forward games all working on a new Console but, I don't see that happening.

 

Remember, Microsoft did this before. When the 360 first came out, a good chunk of original Xbox games played on the 360... although most of the games I played, were buggy and button layout was not great.  360 on the Xbox one is way better but, I have found some issues with games.

 

Sony would lose too much money by making the really old games compatible….


Edited by TheCoolDave, Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:22 AM.


#47 cimerians OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:58 AM

I have zero faith they let you use your existing discs. I think they will push streaming services like never before. They have the majority of their back-catalog for download up in their store. Which isn't backwards compatible. Will they convert those? I just can't see them doing anything for our benefit without some sort of 'collateral'. 



#48 Video OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:23 AM

Lol. No. It's a great idea, don't get me wrong, lots (most?) People would love this, and that's why bc of any kind is always touted before a systems launch. It'll likely not happen, or suck, but we can still be delusional and hopeful.

On the next console not having an optical drive, I could see that on Xbox whateverthefuck comes after one (6? LOL) cause that's where Microsoft is trying hardcore to go, but ps4 is still doing great, mostly due to having actual games on the damn discs (unlike xbone) I could see them going to discs as a key next gen, but not medialess altogether.

#49 slab0meat OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:59 AM

Lol. No. It's a great idea, don't get me wrong, lots (most?) People would love this, and that's why bc of any kind is always touted before a systems launch. It'll likely not happen, or suck, but we can still be delusional and hopeful.

On the next console not having an optical drive, I could see that on Xbox whateverthefuck comes after one (6? LOL) cause that's where Microsoft is trying hardcore to go, but ps4 is still doing great, mostly due to having actual games on the damn discs (unlike xbone) I could see them going to discs as a key next gen, but not medialess altogether.

 

Just tried searching PS4 digital vs physical sales.  Looks like physical were down in 2018.  Quarter ending March 2018, 43% of PS4 sales were digital.  And growing.  Don't see a totally up to date number, but saw revenue charts higher and higher closer to present day.  Not sure why the reason Sony is still doing great is the physical media.



#50 Outdoormongoose OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:22 PM

 

Just tried searching PS4 digital vs physical sales.  Looks like physical were down in 2018.  Quarter ending March 2018, 43% of PS4 sales were digital.  And growing.  Don't see a totally up to date number, but saw revenue charts higher and higher closer to present day.  Not sure why the reason Sony is still doing great is the physical media.

 

It's where the world is going. Most people really don't think into the future beyond a few years. I won't buy digital until they've actually dealt with digital management of content/ownership. If I can't own something, I don't buy it. 

 

And yes, I understand I don't own the data on the games. But, I own the item itself which contains the game that will last years. It's not dependent on servers being online and HDDs not crashing. I always make sure the games I buy play/operate without updates. 

 

And yes, I know modern systems are basically computers and the next generations will be backwards compatible(more than likely). That's not the point as I'd just use my PC for digital. When consoles go digital, I'm out. I have no plans on buying an X or next Xbox. I won't support gamepass or forced digital. 

 

 

As for why Sony is still doing great with physical media....that's a good question if true. After owning all the consoles this generation(Wii U, Xbox One, PS4 Pro, Switch), I would say the PS4 feels the most like a gaming console. Most games play pretty quickly compared to the dumpster fire Xbox that takes hours to download a game. The OS feels like a game console and the store isn't that pushy unlike the Microsoft store. With the Xbox, if it dies I'll probably trade in the games and replace them with PS4 versions. I don't mind the graphics will take a slight hit, that's not the point of owning a console. It's ease of use and great games. Nintendo is Nintendo.







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