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Old School 7800 Newbie Resolution Question...


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#1 Kable#33 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 10:01 AM

Hi, I recently fired up my 7800 that has been in storage over 25 years. I'm using the system with a standard Smart TV, converting the RF signal with a Co-Ax adapter in. Here's my question (sorry, I'm typically long-winded)...the resolution bugs me. I know there are conversion kits to change the output signals to Composite or even HD. Seeing some of the images posted on AtariAge are SO vivid...is this how this is accomplished? Basically, if I have my 7800 converted to composite or HD output, will I get that type of super-sharp resolution on the likes of a modern TV? Much thanks in advance for the comments and tips. Thanks!  



#2 slx ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 10:28 AM

There is no real HD conversion as the unit does not produce HD resolution to begin with. If you upgrade to composite or S-Video you have better chances of a good picture but it still depends on how your TV handles analog input.

AFAIK there is no true RGB solution for the 7800 except for the French units which have a daughterboard (and I dont even know if that is native RGB or rather a chip that splits up the composite signal.) Part of the problem is that the 7800 uses different chips for video output in VCS and native 7800 mode.

Call yourself lucky to see something at all with RF output. My TV refuses to recognize the 7800 RF output at all.

#3 Kable#33 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 10:46 AM

Thanks, Stargunner. I'm just wondering how some of the screen images posted on Atari-Age are so super sharp in resolution? I'm converting the RF output of my 7800 with a coaxial converter that I can insert in the Antenna-input of our smart TV. It works, but I'm not sure if that resolution can still be (greatly) improved on? I can run comp images in this TV (like a Nintendo Wii) that have great resolution. I'm just wondering if I convert the 7800 to composite or HD output if I'll see a substantial jump in resolution on HD TVs? I really don't want to consider altering the unit unless it's a substantial improvement. Here's a good example of my dilemma: I can run Donkey Kong, Galaga or Dig Dug off a Pandora's Box with HD out to the TV, and the resolution looks sharp. In comparison to the 7800, with RF to Co-Ax conversion in, those three games are substantially lower resolution. If the 7800 was converted to comp or HD, would this resolution be improved? Most sources say it is, I'm just wondering how much?        



#4 PacManPlus OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 10:57 AM

They are most likely emulator screenshots.  Most of the screenshots (like the ones in the Baby Pac-Man thread for example) are from the emulator A7800 running on a PC.


Edited by PacManPlus, Sat Feb 9, 2019 10:57 AM.


#5 Kable#33 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 12:31 PM

Got it, PMP, totally makes sense, thanks! 



#6 gorfcadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 2:09 PM

Hey!  I know how painful hooking a stock 7800 to a modern tv can be.  I really do recommend getting it s-video modded and picking up a RetroTink 2X.  The RetroTink is a line doubler that outputs 480p through hdmi.  I use it all the time for my reviews and experience no noticeable lag.  If you don't want to jump down the modification rabbit hole, you can run your 7800 through an old vcr to get rca outputs then run that through the RetroTink, but it won't be as good.  Still it would be an improvement.

 

Here is what it looks like using a real 7800 through the RetroTink using s-video.

 

 

I hope this helps.



#7 Kable#33 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 5:47 PM

This is exactly what I was hoping to investigate! Thanks, GorfCadet!  



#8 gorfcadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 9, 2019 9:50 PM

This is exactly what I was hoping to investigate! Thanks, GorfCadet!  

 

No worries!  Glad to be of assistance.  :)



#9 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:00 PM

Hey!  I know how painful hooking a stock 7800 to a modern tv can be.  I really do recommend getting it s-video modded and picking up a RetroTink 2X.  The RetroTink is a line doubler that outputs 480p through hdmi.  I use it all the time for my reviews and experience no noticeable lag.  If you don't want to jump down the modification rabbit hole, you can run your 7800 through an old vcr to get rca outputs then run that through the RetroTink, but it won't be as good.  Still it would be an improvement.

 

Here is what it looks like using a real 7800 through the RetroTink using s-video.

 

 

I hope this helps.

Given commando shows in wrong colors (around 3:24 mins in your video) does the RetroTink have any color controls to fix it?

7800 Commando has yellows and browns for the ground/hills and brighter green for the grass and not that mostly greenish hue modern TVs shows ... a CRT does it justice but on modern TVs you need to adjust the tint control quite a lot.

 

Trebor's video gets it right:

 



#10 -^CrožBow^- ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:04 AM

Given commando shows in wrong colors (around 3:24 mins in your video) does the RetroTink have any color controls to fix it?

7800 Commando has yellows and browns for the ground/hills and brighter green for the grass and not that mostly greenish hue modern TVs shows ... a CRT does it justice but on modern TVs you need to adjust the tint control quite a lot.

 

Trebor's video gets it right:

 

 

We've beat this to death already. I've verified it is the TVs at fault and not the mods being used. On my CRTs and PVM the colors are correct and that is what I use to check the colors when 7800s are sent to me for work and calibration. But LCDs just seem to display the colors wrong. Yes you can correct it somewhat by adjusting the tint and color on your LCD, but then you hose up the colors for everything else you might watch or play. For me it comes down to the needs of the few outweighs the needs of the one. I can live with Commando in the colors it displays on the LCD and just assume it is more Sound of Music green hills vs worn torn destroyed land.

 

Now I don't own nor have I used a RetroTink 2x, but even if it does have color adjustments. My understanding is that it doesn't keep the settings you put when powered off and it doesn't have programmable profiles you can save and recall like the OSSC does. So again you would have to make these adjustments each time you wanted to play this one game and that would get old quick I can image. 


Edited by -^CrožBow^-, Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:06 AM.


#11 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:36 PM

Hey!  I know how painful hooking a stock 7800 to a modern tv can be.  I really do recommend getting it s-video modded and picking up a RetroTink 2X.

 

I received the RetroTink 2X a short while ago and finally got around to giving it a spin, the 7800 was actually the second thing I hooked up to it for testing.

 

If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive ultra-low latency, high quality line doubler/converter this is an excellent choice.  It flawlessly handled all the 2600/7800 I threw at it so far, and did a nice job with the PS2 component output as well.

 

There's a very nice free case design available for it as well, which I just printed up today.

 

https://www.thingive...m/thing:3341440

 

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