Jump to content

Photo

TIPI Web Browser


17 replies to this topic

#1 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Dragonstomper

  • 818 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:42 AM

I was not able to find the reference, but I thought someone posted either a video or a link to a very simple web browser using the TIPI. Basically, someone had to use a very limited set of tags to ever be useful for the TI-99/4A and TIPI.

 

Whoever the author is, is it possible this program can be used for a single html website to support ftp.whtech.com?  Specifically, one can use a web browser to pull a page, and navigate subdirectories.  Is it possible to be able to add an additional tag to allow minimally the transfer of a file?

 

Not sure which topic I saw it as I could not find it, but was questioning whether such a feature could be added, etc.  Not even sure if the source was made available, or if it was a GCC application for the TI, etc.

 

If minimally whtech could be accessed, it would really open up the TI to a large database of files.

 

Beery

 



#2 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

--- Ω ---

    Hexacorerunner

  • 13,643 posts

Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:52 AM

Are you referring to Stuart's Internet Web Browser?  I's not TIPI compatible (yet), but it does work with the RS-232 card and even the Nano-PEB.

 

Is this the old video you were referring to?

 



#3 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Dragonstomper

  • Topic Starter
  • 818 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:52 AM

Yeah, that looks like it.



#4 Nick99 OFFLINE  

Nick99

    Star Raider

  • 66 posts

Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:11 PM

I like the idea to be able to download programs and view images from TI friendly web pages!

of course with TIPI mouse support! :-D  ;)  



#5 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

--- Ω ---

    Hexacorerunner

  • 13,643 posts

Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:18 PM

I like the idea to be able to download programs and view images from TI friendly web pages!

of course with TIPI mouse support! :-D  ;)  

 

Oh man, with the changes that have happened in the community since he originally released this program, an update is just BEGGIN' to be done!  Yeah, stuff this thing in a FinalGROM with TIPI mouse an WiFi access... WowZa!  :-o



#6 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Dragonstomper

  • Topic Starter
  • 818 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:25 PM

I do not know what handle Stuart uses, assuming he is on here. If he is, can he or someone else comment on the source code?  Was it with GCC, or did he code pure assembly?

 

I only mention Whtech as if the browser can support minimally the tags that are offered up by that web page when one http's into ftp.whtech.com, then one "might" be able to transfer files.  I think it may be easier with the TIPI than a WiFi based modem due to sending/receiving communication on multiple ports.

 

Beery



#7 Lee Stewart OFFLINE  

Lee Stewart

    River Patroller

  • 3,906 posts
  • Location:Silver Run, Maryland

Posted Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:56 PM

I do not know what handle Stuart uses, assuming he is on here. If he is, can he or someone else comment on the source code?  Was it with GCC, or did he code pure assembly?

 

I only mention Whtech as if the browser can support minimally the tags that are offered up by that web page when one http's into ftp.whtech.com, then one "might" be able to transfer files.  I think it may be easier with the TIPI than a WiFi based modem due to sending/receiving communication on multiple ports.

 

Beery

 

Stuart’s handle is Stuart.

 

...lee



#8 arcadeshopper ONLINE  

arcadeshopper

    River Patroller

  • 4,196 posts
  • Location:Portland, Oregon USA

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:52 AM

I do not know what handle Stuart uses, assuming he is on here. If he is, can he or someone else comment on the source code?  Was it with GCC, or did he code pure assembly?

 

I only mention Whtech as if the browser can support minimally the tags that are offered up by that web page when one http's into ftp.whtech.com, then one "might" be able to transfer files.  I think it may be easier with the TIPI than a WiFi based modem due to sending/receiving communication on multiple ports.

 

Beery

 

pure assembly, his web site: http://www.stuartcon...me.uk/ti/ti.htmsccroolllll down to web browser

 

Greg



#9 Stuart OFFLINE  

Stuart

    Dragonstomper

  • 833 posts
  • Location:Southampton, UK

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:29 AM

Hello!

 

I've pondered adding file download capability to the browser because it has been mentioned before. There are a number of issues, as I see them:

 

(1) Adding file download capability makes the program bigger, thus decreasing the size of web page that the program can download and render (the web page has to be held in memory). At the moment the program can just about download the chess web page; adding any extra capability and it won't be able to handle that. It might be possible to use some sort of program overlay to load the code to download a file then reload the browser code, but that gets difficult when people want the program in different types of cartridge etc. ...

 

(2) If the requirement is just to handle downloads from an FTP site then that could probably be handled by a completely separate program. If just 'browsing' an FTP site then that could be handled using a video text mode, rather than rendering pages using a video graphics mode (so a smaller, faster program).

 

(3) I'm not sure how the program would handle all the different file types (EA3, EA5, BASIC, Ext BASIC, relative and sequential files, ...). It might be that a TIFILES header or similar provides all the information needed to recognise the file type. If a TI file needed some sort of 'processing' to put it into a particular format suitable for upload then download, that's an impediment to 'just anyone' uploading files. Which brings me on to ...

 

(4) How many people would actually use it anyway? After the initial "that's cool", it might well just fade into non-use. So a lot of work for something used by people you could count on one hand. Unless done for one's own personal enjoyment of course. ;-)

 

(5) Is file download functionality something that the TIPI devs might want to add to the TIPI itself? A new TIPI call with URL and storage device name parameters, and the TIPI handles it all?

 

Stuart



#10 arcadeshopper ONLINE  

arcadeshopper

    River Patroller

  • 4,196 posts
  • Location:Portland, Oregon USA

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:49 AM

Hello!

 

I've pondered adding file download capability to the browser because it has been mentioned before. There are a number of issues, as I see them:

 

(1) Adding file download capability makes the program bigger, thus decreasing the size of web page that the program can download and render (the web page has to be held in memory). At the moment the program can just about download the chess web page; adding any extra capability and it won't be able to handle that. It might be possible to use some sort of program overlay to load the code to download a file then reload the browser code, but that gets difficult when people want the program in different types of cartridge etc. ...

 

(2) If the requirement is just to handle downloads from an FTP site then that could probably be handled by a completely separate program. If just 'browsing' an FTP site then that could be handled using a video text mode, rather than rendering pages using a video graphics mode (so a smaller, faster program).

 

(3) I'm not sure how the program would handle all the different file types (EA3, EA5, BASIC, Ext BASIC, relative and sequential files, ...). It might be that a TIFILES header or similar provides all the information needed to recognise the file type. If a TI file needed some sort of 'processing' to put it into a particular format suitable for upload then download, that's an impediment to 'just anyone' uploading files. Which brings me on to ...

 

(4) How many people would actually use it anyway? After the initial "that's cool", it might well just fade into non-use. So a lot of work for something used by people you could count on one hand. Unless done for one's own personal enjoyment of course. icon_winking.gif

 

(5) Is file download functionality something that the TIPI devs might want to add to the TIPI itself? A new TIPI call with URL and storage device name parameters, and the TIPI handles it all?

 

Stuart

 

Perhaps add some SAMS support?

 

"thats cool" is pretty much my level.. I download and search on my pc and just transfer to TIPI drive

 

5 - its open source, add it :) nobody's stopping you easy python code 

 

Are you working on a TIPI version?  I know Beery got it working with MXT without too much pain. 

 

What IS it written in? Assembly?

 

Greg



#11 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Dragonstomper

  • Topic Starter
  • 818 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:21 PM

After seeing what Stuart has implemented on his page, there is no way I could invest the development time to start from scratch to reach his level. Replacing serial support and adding TIPI support is probably not a major issue as on his webpage previously referenced, he has pretty much the code laid out separately.  I've got the pieces already in the MXT code I modified and released so anyone else could run with it as well.

 

Only if Stuart wanted to share code, and realize I fully understand if he does not want to, my focus would be to work only with Whtech as the FTP repository for file transfers.  I just want to have options in place a TI'er could transfer a file to a TIPI system.

Supposedly, Eric has sent out the drawings to have the newer 99/5C boards made which will allow PEBox as well as sidecar TIPI access.  I've already got the TIPI sidecar ready to go and just wanting for the board update to get started on that front.

 

Beery



#12 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Dragonstomper

  • Topic Starter
  • 818 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:30 PM

I should also add that Stuart makes a valid point about any modifications on whether folks would even use the capability, and/or is it just a "cool factor".  People providing feedback would be appreciated here in this topic.

 

Maybe a decent gauge of interest is to inquire whether anyone is using MXT for file transfers or calling BBS's, or are they sticking strictly with the original TIPI Telnet client?  My feelings are probably nobody is using it.  I know the file availability on HeatWave and Fusion are limited, however on my BBS I do have quite a large (>10,000) files available for download however I see maybe only 3 to 4 callers a month outside myself.  I use my BBS quite frequently as the gateway to get files to my Geneve with minimal effort.  I also use it frequently to search for files I know I might need in some other development efforts.

 

From other polls I have seen taken, it really seems the largest interest of users with the TI is with games.  I've got nothing against it, it is just I am not personally interested in games on the TI as I just do not have enough time.

 

Beery



#13 Nick99 OFFLINE  

Nick99

    Star Raider

  • 66 posts

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:57 PM

I will absolutely use it for download and for that matter also uploading if possible.

I must admit that I like it simple, that meaning I don´t have to start my iMac to download and then transfer it to my TI.

Beery, can I log in to your BBS with my TiPi?

 

Niklas



#14 Stuart OFFLINE  

Stuart

    Dragonstomper

  • 833 posts
  • Location:Southampton, UK

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:42 PM

 

Perhaps add some SAMS support?

 

"thats cool" is pretty much my level.. I download and search on my pc and just transfer to TIPI drive

 

5 - its open source, add it :) nobody's stopping you easy python code 

 

Are you working on a TIPI version?  I know Beery got it working with MXT without too much pain. 

 

What IS it written in? Assembly?

 

Greg

 

>> Perhaps add some SAMS support? <<

 

But I think that that at the moment would reduce the possible user base even more.

 

>> Are you working on a TIPI version?  I know Beery got it working with MXT without too much pain. <<

 

Yes, I've done a proof of concept for calling the TIPI services correctly. Part way through doing a TIPI version of the browser but needed Omega's help to test it (I don't have a TIPI, or even a TI-99 set up at the moment), and he's been pretty busy.

 

>> What IS it written in? Assembly? <<

 

Yes, it's all assembly.



#15 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Dragonstomper

  • Topic Starter
  • 818 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:45 PM

Niklas,

 

Yes, you can log into my BBS with anything that uses a WiFi connection for Telnet.  This includes a TIPI as well as RS232 w/ a WiFi modem.  The URL is 9640News.ddns.net with a port address of 9640.

 

If you are using MXT for the TIPI, then you can download.  I added an option when you first connect whether the user wants 40 or 80 columns.  You will want Text mode, not ANSI if you are using MXT.  I am not sure how the screen will look in 40 columns for reading messages, as the software was originally geared more towards 80 column ANSI.  I know there is no issue navigating and downloading in 40 columns.

 

Also, I think with MXT, you will need to select TELNET mode from the MXT menu screen if you decide to download files.

 

Beery



#16 arcadeshopper ONLINE  

arcadeshopper

    River Patroller

  • 4,196 posts
  • Location:Portland, Oregon USA

Posted Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:47 PM

 

>> Perhaps add some SAMS support? <<

 

But I think that that at the moment would reduce the possible user base even more.

 

>> Are you working on a TIPI version?  I know Beery got it working with MXT without too much pain. <<

 

Yes, I've done a proof of concept for calling the TIPI services correctly. Part way through doing a TIPI version of the browser but needed Omega's help to test it (I don't have a TIPI, or even a TI-99 set up at the moment), and he's been pretty busy.

 

>> What IS it written in? Assembly? <<

 

Yes, it's all assembly.

 

I am happy to test whatever you like. You are also welcome to join the slack (in my signature line) and get the TIPI developers in a conversation in the TIPI channel.

 

SAMS is no more unique than a UDS10  :)  these days we can get them for the pbox for 80$ (from Jim direct or I resell them on my store) or 20$ for the bare board..and there is talk of sidecar versions

Gives you a lot more memory for webpage storage that's for sure! :) 

 

Greg



#17 ElectricLab OFFLINE  

ElectricLab

    Moonsweeper

  • 257 posts
  • Location:Hillsboro, Oregon

Posted Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:14 PM

Stuart: Just getting TIPI support for your browser would be amazing. 



#18 Ksarul ONLINE  

Ksarul

    Quadrunner

  • 5,153 posts

Posted Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:18 AM

Actually, the current batch of assembled SAMS boards are $85 each, as I had to pay a bit more for a couple of the chips the last time I bought them. The first batch was as cheap as it was thanks to a donation about 20 good 74LS612s from Chris Bobbitt, and I passed that forward to the community by pricing accordingly. I got lucky on the price for a couple of the other chips too (and I probably should have bought more when that chance occurred). Future boards should not go above the current $85 price, as I now have sufficient parts on hand to build about 100 of them (speaking for the expensive chips, some of the others are relatively cheap all of the time).






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users