Jump to content

Photo

Google set to announce next-gen console. Rumored partnership with SEGA


102 replies to this topic

#26 zzip OFFLINE  

zzip

    River Patroller

  • 2,662 posts

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:04 PM

I have to go read about it (not going to watch the propaganda video just yet), but this is the kind of thing that OnLive was doing in 2012. Sony bought up their patents, trademarks, and technology. I'm curious if they'll do anything to bother Google's plans here. 

 

It's the natural evolution IMHO. We have been watching broadcast TV for ages, streaming for a long time. Mainframe computing is the dino precursor to this. Makes sense to me -- though if they have an outage or discontinue service, it's lights out. 

 

but we abandoned mainframes in favor of distributed computing for good reasons.   Why go backwards?



#27 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

Flojomojo

    You can't handle the truth. No truth-handler, you.

  • 16,228 posts
  • I deride your truth-handling abilities.

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:17 PM

but we abandoned mainframes in favor of distributed computing for good reasons.   Why go backwards?

 

Because "progress" is not a linear constant, like turning up the heat? There are lots of nice things about centralized computing, too. 



#28 dj_convoy OFFLINE  

dj_convoy

    Dragonstomper

  • 978 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:08 PM

I dunno. Nothing about this makes me sit up and take notice... But an old guy who doesn't live and die on the latest FPS or latest ephemeral phone game probably isn't their market demo. I'm content with the zillion consoles I have, and occasional PC gaming supplemented by Steam and GOG.

#29 bluswimmer OFFLINE  

bluswimmer

    Space Invader

  • 48 posts

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:16 PM

Yup, it's about what I expected. I still think game streaming isn't really a viable thing to chase after right now, considering latency and other factors. Also, there's a controller that connects via WiFi... all I can say is "why?"



#30 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 7,270 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Burlington, New Jersey, USA

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:07 PM

I have to go read about it (not going to watch the propaganda video just yet), but this is the kind of thing that OnLive was doing in 2012. Sony bought up their patents, trademarks, and technology. I'm curious if they'll do anything to bother Google's plans here. 

 

It's the natural evolution IMHO. We have been watching broadcast TV for ages, streaming for a long time. Mainframe computing is the dino precursor to this. Makes sense to me -- though if they have an outage or discontinue service, it's lights out. 

 

I don't see what Sony could/would do, They already have PS Now streaming for PS4 and PC. I will say that performance has not been good for me over wifi, but when wired or wirelessly bridged, performance has been good enough (and on PS4, you can still download select titles). It sounds like Google is going to hit with a higher level of performance than has been possible on previous such offerings, and, if true, they've likely leapfrogged all the current competition. 4K/60 is nothing to sneeze at. We'll see, of course, as these things have classically been highly variable (I usually had pretty good performance with OnLive years ago, for instance, and not so bad with Gamefly streaming. 

 

On a personal level, I'm fine with game streaming as long as the performance is there. It is the next step after digital gaming, which I'm all in on, but I just don't know if it's a mass market product quite yet. Maybe in another 5 years (I say without experiencing the Google implementation to potentially change my mind on shortening that timescale).



#31 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

Flojomojo

    You can't handle the truth. No truth-handler, you.

  • 16,228 posts
  • I deride your truth-handling abilities.

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:11 PM

Picture quality is one thing, lag is another. I was in the Project Stream beta but didn't get to spend enough time with it to form an informed opinion (I don't much care for Ass Creed games). I'm hoping they'll use this for big, unwieldy MMOs that patch all the time. I could get behind that. 

 

What could Sony do? Patent troll type stuff. Doesn't seem like their style, fortunately. 



#32 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 7,270 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Burlington, New Jersey, USA

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:27 PM

Picture quality is one thing, lag is another. I was in the Project Stream beta but didn't get to spend enough time with it to form an informed opinion (I don't much care for Ass Creed games). I'm hoping they'll use this for big, unwieldy MMOs that patch all the time. I could get behind that. 

 

What could Sony do? Patent troll type stuff. Doesn't seem like their style, fortunately. 

 

Yeah, Battle Royale games like Fortnite are also being constantly updated, so it would be good for that as well. Certainly, that's a good commercial application for game streaming, but really, if it can benefit some games, I suppose it can benefit all games. I mean if the technology works, why not use it for everything?



#33 Bilnick OFFLINE  

Bilnick

    Dragonstomper

  • 612 posts
  • Location:Saline, Michigan

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:59 PM

Two things concern me with this. Controller input lag and how much data would be consumed per hour streaming 4k/60fps. I routinely approach my 1TB per month cap on my comcast service as it is, how much more data is used streaming vs the way games are played now. 



#34 youxia OFFLINE  

youxia

    Dragonstomper

  • 898 posts

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:51 PM

There was a snarky remark elsewhere about the "physical media", so I will duly oblige.

 

The "all change/progress is good" trope is a fallacy. It seems so simple, and there are of course countless examples from all walks of life on why this is not true, and yet it's still being wheeled out on any occasion. In the case of videogaming of course there are some benefits to broadband-enabled status quo - but also massive disadvantages that can't be just swept under the rug with sniping about cavemen/luddite vocal minority.

 

And so, the design-by-dlc is progress but it is not a good thing. Microtransactions also qualify as progress, right? Endless updates are progress and so is GAAS model, yet they seem to have hordes of detractors. Digital distribution is progress, okay - it is, in a fashion - but one that managed at the same time con people into thinking the product is now cheaper (it isn't, really) and more importantly it caused the death of ownership. The funny thing is that those are absolutely unnecessary - there is no single valid reason for them, apart form companies' greed and our own gullibility.

 

This latest move, which will eventually spread to other consoles too, is just the final step in the campaign for the total control of content. Streaming is after all the ultimate gambit, now you truly don't have to own anything - not even some illusionary "it's mine!" library on services such as Steam :) It's a shame, because up  till now consoles were actually the last bastion of ownership, what with the ability to trade your stuff.

 

And that's even before we get into more meta stuff such as the wisdom of letting one corporation control absolutely everything (wait a decade or two for the news how big G merges with fb, MS and suchlike) and the fact that while the broadband has substantial coverage in the more developed world, it's often gimped by plans and traffic problems. And that's the developed world, nevermind the rest.



#35 MrMaddog OFFLINE  

MrMaddog

    Dragonstomper

  • 922 posts
  • Not a 'gamer' but a video game player...
  • Location:Parts Unknown

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:45 PM

So what's the solution, get off the Internet and live in Unabomber shacks?  Lately gaming forums (especially this one) are starting to sound more anti-technology.

 

Hey I don't like what mega corps like Google are doing either but I'm not gonna stop playing games or using computers because of it.



#36 Austin OFFLINE  

Austin

    Quadrunner

  • 13,012 posts
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:54 PM

Streaming games has never been a good idea compared to other delivery methods. It's more of a convenience over quality thing. The tech will undoubtedly improve as time marches on, but the USA is a big place. The internet in many areas is still terrible. Something like this won't catch on until that gets sorted out.

Edited by Austin, Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:54 PM.


#37 Jin ONLINE  

Jin

    Solar Striker

  • 3,179 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:24 AM

Personally I'm not too worried about cloud gaming streaming services taking over the video game market, simply because I don't think the internet connection speeds in most of the developed world can support it. Capcom has already tried streaming games last year in Japan, where internet connection speeds are some of the fastest in the world, and it failed pretty miserably. If there's not enough bandwidth to stream games without major lag and hiccups in Japan I'm not sure what makes Google (or Microsoft for that matter) think that streaming games is going to be a viable idea in North America and Europe where internet speeds are much slower. It really feels like they're putting the cart before the horse here.

#38 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

Flojomojo

    You can't handle the truth. No truth-handler, you.

  • 16,228 posts
  • I deride your truth-handling abilities.

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:56 AM

Two things concern me with this. Controller input lag and how much data would be consumed per hour streaming 4k/60fps. I routinely approach my 1TB per month cap on my comcast service as it is, how much more data is used streaming vs the way games are played now. 


OnLive used about 1GB per hour at 720p. Usage caps are stupid and so is Comcast, and it sucks that they're the only choice in some places.

If it were my only choice, I'd hold my nose and upgrade to business service or whatever is unlimited, because 1TB isn't nearly enough data for my work and play.

#39 youxia OFFLINE  

youxia

    Dragonstomper

  • 898 posts

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:22 AM

So what's the solution, get off the Internet and live in Unabomber shacks? 

 

Why do we always have to end up with these kind of binary, extreme arguments? No, of course not. The answer is to try to keep things in balance and also exercise your voice as a customer. This voice can be extremely powerful because corporations are seldom ideologcally driven, it's all about the profit. It works, you only have to look as far as X1 launch for proof, or the EA lootbox quagmires.

 

In this case, there's nothing wrong with streaming as an alternative service. I use Netflix myself occasionally, but also collect particular films/shows I really like. It works, because it is one of the choices.

 

Conversely, there is everything wrong with streaming/digital only as the only option. And judging by the amount of definitive and absolute "it's the future!" statements this is where console (PC?) videogaming is headed.


Edited by youxia, Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:25 AM.


#40 Video OFFLINE  

Video

    Quadrunner

  • 9,448 posts
  • Location:Here

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:53 AM

I don't know if streaming will ever be viable for gaming. Someone mentioned "video does it though" yeah? Well there is a big difference from selecting something and having it stream uninterrupted (video) vs something streaming while you're actively giving it commands (games) I can use satellite to stream a movie, so the several seconds of latency may suck, but it won't interfere with you watching a movie in any way, with the possible exception of taking time to pause or change scenes.

With the BEST local internet (fiber optic) streaming games is highly unstable and simply not practical. It still takes real time, well, time, to register a button press send it to a server, have that do whatever it does, and send it back to you.

If your the type that won't use controller extensions because, lag, what do you think is going to happen when you add dozens, or hundreds of miles, cables, optic, phone lines, switches, servers, etc to the mix?

Let's not even start on data caps, and to be honest, slow internet many of us are forced to use. Even with no data/speed cap, it still won't work. It could, if they just download the game when you start, but why do that, it might make sense.

Anyhow, Sega may have good games, but basically burned their can base long ago, and google, eh...yeah, I guess they got android, but still.

#41 Bilnick OFFLINE  

Bilnick

    Dragonstomper

  • 612 posts
  • Location:Saline, Michigan

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:09 AM

OnLive used about 1GB per hour at 720p. Usage caps are stupid and so is Comcast, and it sucks that they're the only choice in some places.

If it were my only choice, I'd hold my nose and upgrade to business service or whatever is unlimited, because 1TB isn't nearly enough data for my work and play.

 

Comcast/xfinity is my only choice at the moment. Unlimited data from Comcast is $50 more per month, I have never had more than $20 in overage charges so paying for unlimited doesn't make a lot of sense for me. Hopefully when 5G cell service comes to the Ann Arbor/Saline area I can at least have 2 choices.  Data caps suck.

 

I have the Xbox game pass and I have to be careful how many games I download. A 50GB game like Halo would eat up 5% of my data for the month.



#42 travistouchdown OFFLINE  

travistouchdown

    River Patroller

  • 4,572 posts
  • Do the math!
  • Location:Burlington, Vermont

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:50 AM

Looks like exactly the kind of console that i'm not interested in!  Harrrrrd pass. 



#43 zzip OFFLINE  

zzip

    River Patroller

  • 2,662 posts

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:32 AM

I don't see what Sony could/would do, They already have PS Now streaming for PS4 and PC. I will say that performance has not been good for me over wifi, but when wired or wirelessly bridged, performance has been good enough (and on PS4, you can still download select titles). It sounds like Google is going to hit with a higher level of performance than has been possible on previous such offerings, and, if true, they've likely leapfrogged all the current competition. 4K/60 is nothing to sneeze at. We'll see, of course, as these things have classically been highly variable (I usually had pretty good performance with OnLive years ago, for instance, and not so bad with Gamefly streaming.

 
I really don't think Sony bought  PS Now just for PS3 backwards compatibility.   They were planning ahead in case this ever took off.   I'm sure they have plans in place to scale up PS Now in the future.  They could probably stream games beyond the capabilities of the PS4 Pro if they saw a need.
 

 

The "all change/progress is good" trope is a fallacy. It seems so simple, and there are of course countless examples from all walks of life on why this is not true, and yet it's still being wheeled out on any occasion. In the case of videogaming of course there are some benefits to broadband-enabled status quo - but also massive disadvantages that can't be just swept under the rug with sniping about cavemen/luddite vocal minority.

 

Don't get me started!   It used to be you wouldn't find anyone more enthusiastic about new tech than me.   But now I see technology moving in dark directions.   Everything wants to collect as much personal info on you as they can.   And even if these companies don't intend to use it in any malicious way, it often gets breached and released.   Not to mention the revelations that certain spy agencies do indeed have ways to exploit it.   This is progress? 



#44 zzip OFFLINE  

zzip

    River Patroller

  • 2,662 posts

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:26 AM

I was thinking more about this, and I think for a lot of people, the hardware itself is just as much fun as the gaming experience.     I mean why else would we all come to a site like this and talk about the systems we used 20, 30, 40 years ago?   Would you go to a site to talk about the TV or radio you owned in the 80s?  I wouldn't.  Those are commodity things,   Computer/Video game hardware all had it's own personality. 

 

It's also exciting to see your hardware do amazing things you didn't think possible-  And the anticipation of upgrade time.   If your on PC, getting the latest CPU/GPU and benchmarking it.

 

A streaming service commoditizes all that.   For a lot of people that it would take half the fun out of gaming.  

 

Maybe for younger people who grew up with the netflix/spotify model--  they won't have an issue with it.   But for anyone who grew up as a hardware geek--  it would pretty much decimate your hobby.



#45 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 7,270 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Burlington, New Jersey, USA

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:30 AM

 
I really don't think Sony bought  PS Now just for PS3 backwards compatibility.   They were planning ahead in case this ever took off.   I'm sure they have plans in place to scale up PS Now in the future.  They could probably stream games beyond the capabilities of the PS4 Pro if they saw a need.
 
 
 
Don't get me started!   It used to be you wouldn't find anyone more enthusiastic about new tech than me.   But now I see technology moving in dark directions.   Everything wants to collect as much personal info on you as they can.   And even if these companies don't intend to use it in any malicious way, it often gets breached and released.   Not to mention the revelations that certain spy agencies do indeed have ways to exploit it.   This is progress? 


PS Now already accommodates all PlayStation platforms, including PS4 games. The issue is it doesn't support 4k as of yet. That's kind of why the Google promise of 4k/60 streaming is particularly impressive. I'm not aware of other, similar tech being able to get anywhere near that.

In terms of the tech, or any tech, being scary, I never see it that way. It's something I'd rather embrace and work on the challenges than try to stop. It's not possible to stop things like that and I'd rather not miss out on new trends. I want to keep my youthful technological enthusiasm forever (and as responsibly as possible).

#46 zzip OFFLINE  

zzip

    River Patroller

  • 2,662 posts

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:44 AM

In terms of the tech, or any tech, being scary, I never see it that way. It's something I'd rather embrace and work on the challenges than try to stop. It's not possible to stop things like that and I'd rather not miss out on new trends. I want to keep my youthful technological enthusiasm forever (and as responsibly as possible).

 

I can't "fix" hackers exposing my private data from third parties or intelligence agencies collecting it once it happens.   The only thing I can do is resist technologies that enable such things. 



#47 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

Flojomojo

    You can't handle the truth. No truth-handler, you.

  • 16,228 posts
  • I deride your truth-handling abilities.

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:38 AM

True, but video game stuff is pretty low risk. Bazillions of people go out of the way to share their gaming behavior on Twitch and similar,

I guess it would be easy enough to pay cash for some Google Play credit, use a separate/anonymous account for Stadia, and oh, I dunno ... play at the library or something so your IP isn't traced?

#48 zzip OFFLINE  

zzip

    River Patroller

  • 2,662 posts

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:45 AM

True, but video game stuff is pretty low risk. Bazillions of people go out of the way to share their gaming behavior on Twitch and similar,

I guess it would be easy enough to pay cash for some Google Play credit, use a separate/anonymous account for Stadia, and oh, I dunno ... play at the library or something so your IP isn't traced?

 

Well I'm just talking in general about tech like social media / personal assistants that are always listening.  My gaming accounts have very little personal info, biggest risk I see is keeping a credit card on file.   There were lots of reports of people stealing PSN accounts (for instance) and using the credit card attached to the account to buy things.



#49 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

Flojomojo

    You can't handle the truth. No truth-handler, you.

  • 16,228 posts
  • I deride your truth-handling abilities.

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:58 AM

Well I'm just talking in general about tech like social media / personal assistants that are always listening.  My gaming accounts have very little personal info, biggest risk I see is keeping a credit card on file.   There were lots of reports of people stealing PSN accounts (for instance) and using the credit card attached to the account to buy things.

 

Yep, that was a massive hack, and Sony was hobbled for months afterwards, learning many lessons in the process. Everyone got a whole lot of free "apology" games as a result!  :grin:

 

I've had my info breached so many times (see https://haveibeenpwned.com)that I've become a little more selective about how and what I share, and with whom. 



#50 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

Bill Loguidice

    Quadrunner

  • 7,270 posts
  • Armchair Arcade Managing Director
  • Location:Burlington, New Jersey, USA

Posted Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:23 AM

I've had my info breached so many times (see https://haveibeenpwned.com)that I've become a little more selective about how and what I share, and with whom. 

 

My cards have been compromised at gas stations, maybe twice in the past five years (one recently). That's why I use a dedicated gas card now (or, more specifically, a dedicated credit card just for gas stations).

 

The point is, it can happen anywhere, anytime. Everything is connected. I'm not going to obsess over the security of my stuff other than taking reasonable precautions. I'm satisfied there are enough safeguards in place, or at least reasonable ways to get out of things, for stuff like that to be low on the list of things I need to worry about in this short life.






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users