Atari 8-bit machines comparison table

[6BQ5]

Has anyone made a feature comparison table of the various 8-bit machines? It seems like each machine has some unique feature or characteristic about it that could make it better suited (or worse suited) to a particular application.

 

A simple example: a stock 800XL lacks S-Video output capabilities whereas a 130XE does have this capability.

 

I am kind of inspired to start one but don't want to recreate the wheel.

 

Thanks!

[+slx]

Most of that should be covered in the 8-bit FAQ, but not in a single table.

 

Most lacking features can be retrofitted with varying difficulty.

 

Make it your Atari project and share it! If you set it up as an online spreadsheet others can contribute.

 

Possible features could be:

• RAM
• Composite out
• S-Video out
• PBI
• ECI
• other expansion possibilities

[mono]

• built-in BASIC (XL/XE)

built-in game (XEGS)

external keyboard (XEGS)

LEDS (1200XL)

function keys (1200XL)

built-in additional RAM (130XE)

4 joystick ports (400/800)

right cartridge slot (800)

separate cartridge slot (XL) - XL series has separate PBI and separate CART slot so you can use both NewDevice and cartridge in parallel; XE series has only ECI and CART slots that makes together replacement of PBI, so you can use either NewDevice connected by both CART+ECI slots or cartridge connected by CART slot

built-in buzzer (400/800)

Edited April 2, 2019 by mono

[+MrFish]

Thanks for bringing this up. I'd started creating one of these a bunch of years back, but didn't quite finish it, and forgot all about it.

 

I worked on it a little bit more today, after seeing this topic.

 

It was basically supposed to be something to help people decide what model they should purchase for their first machine (a common topic that comes up repeatedly on the forums).

 

So far it's only for U.S. machines, and a few subjective areas just show my own opinion. If you don't agree, I'd be glad to discuss my opinions in these areas. Also, if anyone has suggestions for improvement or corrections, speak up.

 

Thanks mono, you have a few suggestions that would be worth including.

 

 

Atari 8-Bit - Comparisons.xls

Edited April 2, 2019 by MrFish

[Magic Knight]

Great roundup in Table format!

[Kyle22]

It would be nice to see the 14xx models listed in that chart.

 

Both the 1400XL and the 1450XLD use the same keyboard as the 1200XL. Mitsumi with excellent touch. They have the LEDs like the 1200XL.

 

Side Cart port, Side flush mount straight joy ports.

 

Built in BASIC.

 

Parallel Bus Interface.

 

Speech and modem.1450XLD has speech, modem plus built in floppy drive(s).

 

I can't remember now if they have a good S-Vid output.

[+MrFish]

It would be nice to see the 14xx models listed in that chart.

 

Both the 1400XL and the 1450XLD use the same keyboard as the 1200XL. Mitsumi with excellent touch. They have the LEDs like the 1200XL.

 

Side Cart port, Side flush mount straight joy ports.

 

Built in BASIC.

 

Parallel Bus Interface.

 

Speech and modem.1450XLD has speech, modem plus built in floppy drive(s).

 

I can't remember now if they have a good S-Vid output.

 

I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea for completeness; although, not much use for the typical new buyer (the original purpose).

 

I'm a little concerned about the size of the spreadsheet getting out of control, too; right now, it's pretty large but manageable.

 

I think what I could do is make a second tab on the spreadsheet that shows these protos alongside the production machines.

 

Thanks, I already know the 14xx specs...

 

I'm doubting that the 14xx machines had S-Video output at all (in stock form), since none of the other XL-Series machines did.

[6BQ5]

Let's try this.

 

I started a spreadsheet table in Google Documents that is accessible to the world. Anyone can read it and give comments. A link is posted below.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZqWxrGv6wDjNkiaw5QZ-uZzbhMyJgRvnlpz0WnFmEOE/edit?usp=sharing

 

This spreadsheet is only a beginning. Fields, columns, values, etc need input! Your input. :)

 

I really wanted to open the table for open editing but I don't know how Google will handle simultaneous editing. Can two people overwrite each other live on screen, on accident? I decided to leave it open to comments only and I will update. Maybe it's better to have one person do this for now. Later we can have one person per region help maintain this. For example, one person from North America, one person from Europe, one person from Asia, etc. This person may know a lot about the specific edition of 8-bit machines released in their region.

 

I don't know how the comment fields look like. Let me know if commenting doesn't work. You can always submit your comments here.

 

I want to be careful with the size of the sheet. Too many columns and too much information may obscure the more salient details. I am thinking if a column is all "Y" or all "N" then we simply add a note below the table.

 

At some point we will freeze the sheet and release it as read-only, rev A. I will open a "in progress" rev B to collect further comments. That point is very far from now though.

 

If we're successful then we may end up with a very nice, very definitive break down of the Atari 8-bit line!

[+kheller2]

Gonna need to be a bit more detailed and thus confusing. The NTSC 600XL has composite? The non-NTSC 65XE has ECI. The 800XLF has svid (I think).

[6BQ5]

I think you're right on the 600XL. It didn't have composite output. Does that apply to both PAL and NTSC versions?

 

I thought initial models of 65XE for NTSC market didn't have ECI port but eventually they did.

 

I think the 800XLF was a precursor to the 130XE. Both systems have a Freddie chip. Hence, the "F". Can someone confirm it has S-Video output? I'll put a tentative "Y" there for now.

[+MrFish]

Gonna need to be a bit more detailed and thus confusing.

 

I don't think so. There just aren't that many differences to make it a big deal.

 

 

The NTSC 600XL has composite?

 

Ah, yeah, I guess it's just RF. As I said, this is a work in progress.

 

 

The non-NTSC 65XE has ECI. The 800XLF has svid (I think).

 

65XE / 800XE --- same thing, different label.

 

As I said, I've just listed the U.S. models. I haven't decided exactly how to add the Euro stuff; but having a separate item added for each euro model that differs is the first thing that comes to mind.

Edited April 3, 2019 by MrFish

[+kheller2]

@mrfish No disrespect to the work you’ve done, and I did miss the USA only statement — and that makes the table rather easy especially If we don’t talk about expansion ability.

All models had GTIA except early 4/8 systems that had CTIA, as you know. I would just add an asterisk next to the yes with an explanation. Having said that, what about Antic mode E?

[+Nezgar]

Mode E was always there, just the OS call in the 400/800 didn't support it, so it was not easily accessible in BASIC for instance on a 400/800 without writing a custom displaylist, and custom linedraw routines.

 

It was added in the 1200XL OS onwards for easy access from BASIC. I previously confirmed it wasnt a limitation of BASIC Rev A, because Rev A can access graphics 9+ modes just fine when used on an XL or XE OS.

[+MrFish]

@mrfish No disrespect to the work you’ve done, and I did miss the USA only statement — and that makes the table rather easy especially If we don’t talk about expansion ability.

 

Actually, I was thinking about changing the "PBI" line to just expansion port and listing what each had. My original idea was that PBI was more the standard; but it was so little used itself that really neither were much of any standard (PBI nor ECI); and these days there exist a fair amount that support both. I'll still retain the notes about them though. This way it'll have something about the 800 expansion port too.

 

 

All models had GTIA except early 4/8 systems that had CTIA, as you know. I would just add an asterisk next to the yes with an explanation.

 

Yeah, I had already been thinking to modify how the CTIA/GTIA designation is presented for the 400/800. I was also thinking the same thing for the Chip Sockets line.

 

 

Having said that, what about Antic mode E?

 

Are you talking about the fact that it couldn't be called from BASIC using "Graphics 15" in OS A/B?

Edited April 3, 2019 by MrFish

[+MrFish]

Mode E was always there, just the OS call in the 400/800 didn't support it, so it was not easily accessible in BASIC for instance on a 400/800 without writing a custom displaylist, and custom linedraw routines.

 

It was added in the 1200XL OS onwards for easy access from BASIC. I previously confirmed it wasnt a limitation of BASIC Rev A, because Rev A can access graphics 9+ modes just fine when used on an XL or XE OS.

 

You posted before I finished typing my answer to Kheller2.

 

Yeah, it was just the OS, not BASIC itself. But it was definitely used before the direct OS support of it.

[flashjazzcat]

The 'Mod-ability' field seems incongruously subjective. A 600XL is more suitable for mods than an XEGS despite the fact the XEGS case is huge and the 600XL is tiny and cramped? Or is suitability for mods based on whether the machine ships with sockets?

 

As for PB/ECI: ECI is technically superior since it provides signals missing from the PBI connector, although in practice most external devices limit themselves to the lowest common denominator (PBI) for the sake of compatibility. An exception is IDE Plus, which employs ECI-only signals and (optionally) requires a separate ribbon connection on PBI machines. Although PBI/ECI devices in the machine's heyday were few and far between (BB, MIO, Supra HDD, etc), I know of none which didn't provide both PBI and ECI connectivity, and and same goes for modern parallel peripherals, with ECI perhaps being the favoured connection today owing to the proliferation of XE machines in Europe.

 

[+MrFish]

The 'Mod-ability' field seems incongruously subjective. A 600XL is more suitable for mods than an XEGS despite the fact the XEGS case is huge and the 600XL is tiny and cramped? Or is suitability for mods based on whether the machine ships with sockets?

 

Yeah, I agree, it's a little vague. I haven't thought of how to present the information more concisely yet, but I'd like to. My main idea was to speak about the board quality, but case size is definitely a consideration. I'll give it some more thought, but suggestions are welcome. It's best to keep it simple, but the notes can help qualify whatever is presented in the chart.

 

 

As for PB/ECI: ECI is technically superior since it provides signals missing from the PBI connector, although in practice most external devices limit themselves to the lowest common denominator (PBI) for the sake of compatibility. An exception is IDE Plus, which employs ECI-only signals and (optionally) requires a separate ribbon connection on PBI machines. Although PBI/ECI devices in the machine's heyday were few and far between (BB, MIO, Supra HDD, etc), I know of none which didn't provide both PBI and ECI connectivity, and and same goes for modern parallel peripherals, with ECI perhaps being the favoured connection today owing to the proliferation of XE machines in Europe.

 

Maybe you missed what I said about changing the PBI line in my response to Kheller2?

Edited April 3, 2019 by MrFish

[flashjazzcat]

Maybe you missed what I said about changing the PBI line in my response to Kheller2?

Sort of... my eyes failed to put emphasis on the first sentence.

[mono]

@MrFish: What do you think about introduction to your table informations about supported TV system (PAL/SECAM/NTSC maybe with revision included).

There are a few variants of video chip - CTIA, GTIA and FGTIA (800XL and 130XE models for French market) differing with number of colours and base system clock.

There is Arabic Atari "The Star" too which supports right-to-left text printing and arabic charset (differences in OS).

Edited April 3, 2019 by mono

[+MrFish]

@MrFish: What do you think about introduction to your table informations about supported TV system (PAL/SECAM/NTSC maybe with revision included).

 

Definitely going to include the Euro machines at some point.

 

 

There are a few variants of video chip - CTIA, GTIA and FGTIA (800XL and 130XE models for French market) differing with number of colours and base system clock.

 

I've heard of this FGTIA; what are the differences with it and GTIA?

 

 

There is Arabic Atari "The Star" too which supports right-to-left text printing and arabic charset (differences in OS).

 

Good point. I really hadn't thought about the Arabic machines yet. Probably can be handled in the notes. These are pretty rare.

[+MrFish]

The 800XLF has svid (I think).

 

The 800XLF is pretty rare, but I'd definitely like to put something about it in the notes too.

[mono]

I've heard of this FGTIA; what are the differences with it and GTIA?

Mainly CPU clock - 1.7815 MHz (a bit between PAL and NTSC ones), max 120 colors (instead 256), 8 luminance levels (instead 16) in GTIA modes, different video output socket (DIN6 instead DIN5) with SECAM standard signals. Curiosity is the DIN6 (http://atariki.krap.pl/index.php/Gniazdo_monitorowe) has two audio signal pins. Datasheet is here: http://ftp.pigwa.net/stuff/collections/nir_dary_cds/Tech%20Info/FGTIA.PDF

Edited April 3, 2019 by mono

[+MrFish]

Curiosity is the DIN6 (http://atariki.krap.pl/index.php/Gniazdo_monitorowe) has two audio signal pins.

 

+12v and +5v on the video port??

Edited April 3, 2019 by MrFish

[mono]

I have never measure voltage levels on video port. Maybe it's unconnected in Atari. Pinout description was added to Atariki by Sikor - maybe he'll be able to confirm (or disconfirm).

[flashjazzcat]

12V is for the SCART mode switch (composite/RGB), but I have audio on pin3 in my SECAM wiring diagram.