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Navarone cartridge expander


jrhodes

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Thinking of getting a NOS Navarone expander from ebay.

Will it "play nice" with a finalgrom99?

Are any carts known to have issues when used with this device?

 

I do not know about the FG99, but I know that Tony’s XB 2.7 cartridge does not play nice with other cartridges on the expander. I forgot the reason, but I am sure there are other cartridges, as well.

 

...lee

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...a clunky "peripheral" if ever there was one. Had one for years (in the collection) and never cared to use it. Especially these days with a FinalGROM or FlashROM, really don't see the point. A brick of cartridges standing vertically, creating a "wall" to the right of the keyboard... fugly! :lol:

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...a clunky "peripheral" if ever there was one. Had one for years (in the collection) and never cared to use it. Especially these days with a FinalGROM or FlashROM, really don't see the point. A brick of cartridges standing vertically, creating a "wall" to the right of the keyboard... fugly! :lol:

 

I've not used mine in quite some time, in fact after the Beyond Video Chess BIN was made for the FG99 I never used it again. It seems kind of superfluous for an average user.

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My observations on use of the Cartridge Expander with "special case" carts:

 

XB 2.7 Cart - Results in all other carts and position of Expander switch being ignored

Dragon's Lair - Same as XB 2.7

FinalGROM - Initial menu presents FinalGROM menu regardless of cart. But menu option selection results in switch-selected cart being used.

FlashROM99 - Operates as intended.

 

What I recall reading at some point was that UberGROM boards aren't compatible with it. But probably someone more technically knowledgeable could expand on that.

 

For me, this makes the use of the device very limited. Since in a perfect world, Terminal Emulator II, XB 2.7 and FinalGROM would be my three selected carts.

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Okay, so there's definitely some weirder behaviour that can go on with FinalGROM + original era carts, in use with the Expander. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can theorise on why this would be.

 

The essence of my broader observation is:

 

  • *All* of my tested 1987 to 1989 Databiotics and Triton carts produce a behaviour wherein FinalGROM is listed as option 2, then the game is listed as option 3 in the opening menu (where it would normally be option 2), if the game is switch-selected at start. Furthermore, the games play successfully. Selecting FinalGROM from the menu when it is not switch-selected restarts the machine. Selecting FinalGROM with the switch in the correct position (even if moved from the startup menu) succeeds.
  • *All* of my tested older carts and first party carts are dysfunctional when switch-selected to greatly varying extents. Option 2 always appears as "For FinalGROM 99" regardless of switch position, though selecting this option selects the switch-selected cart.

 

For example, with the following carts in another slot and selected (and roughly in order of "did it work?"):

 

Barrage: Appears as menu option 3 instead of menu option 2. Completely normal.

Black Hole: Appears as menu option 3 instead of menu option 2. Completely normal.

Midnite Mason: Appears as menu option 3 instead of menu option 2. Completely normal.

Qmaze: Appears as menu option 3 instead of menu option 2. Completely normal.

The Great Word Race: Appears as menu option 3 instead of menu option 2. Completely normal.

Super Demon Attack: Almost completely normal (a few bad characters)

Return to Pirate's Isle: Appears as menu option 3 instead of menu option 2. Some garbled text and graphics.

BurgerTime: Garbled graphics

Buck Rogers: Garbled graphics, but only once normal gameplay starts

Slymoids: Garbled graphics

Star Trek: Garbled graphics

Tombstone City: Garbled Graphics and gameplay seems to freeze.

Parsec: Garbled Graphics and gameplay seems to freeze.

Munchman: Fails to start

Tunnels of Doom: Fails to start

TI Invaders: Fails to start

Alpiner: Alpiner language options other than English appear for options 3 to 8 (in addition to FinalGROM option 2, where English should be). Selecting any of them restarts the machine.

Edited by pixelpedant
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I seem to recall the widget (old name) only switched ONLY the grom +5v power line, and was particular about what modules you plugged into what position, and wasn't happy with some combinations- which seemed to be the combinations I wanted, and it fell out of use here. Not sure that three rom-only modules worked too well... too long time ago.

 

Extended Basic HAD to be in the top slot (FG99 probably also). Anyone got a better memory... I can't find a mention in Micropendium.

 

Something about the way the switch works and the way the console looks for modules.

 

There was also an issue with the sliding switch contacts wearing out rather quickly.

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  • 3 years later...

I just tried this so I know my report is a few years late, but in 2019 my TI was still in the box in the basement. So I bought the Widget back in the late 80s, and the Widget always worked well with original TI cartridges. I used to keep DM2 or E/A, Mini Memory, and XB plugged in, and they all worked properly as long as the switch was in the right place before pressing any key to see the cartridge menu or pressing the reset button (which was pretty handy, to save wear on the power switch when FCTN= didn’t work). I don’t think it was too finicky about which of those was first.


So I just dusted the Widget off and tried it - It still works that way properly with TI cartridges and Atarisoft cartridges (though the switch does feel a little sloppier than it used to).

 

But with FinalGrom99 and FbForth plugged in, it acts screwy. The FG99 is always there as the second selection (after TI Basic) no matter which slot it’s in and no matter where the switch is set. If it’s selected when it’s not the only cartridge, the screen just goes blank. If fbForth is selected (FG99 is selection 2, fbForth is selection 3 and 4), it starts up fbForth just fine. With Mini Memory and FG99 both plugged in, MM doesn’t even show up no matter where the switch is set.

 

So it’s not really useful with FG99, which I’m sure handles the cartridge menu function with more finesse than the Widget used, since it just selected one line for power to the cartridge. (I think I even got the Widget to display “review module library” once or twice, which used to only happen when the cartridge wasn’t plugged in fully, back in the day). But maybe the switch is wearing out, too.

 

The Widget does help me in one situation: I have one console that has a cartridge connector that’s slightly too far away from the cartridge slot door on the console case, which my FG99 in its case doesn’t quite reach. So using it for just that cartridge alone solves that problem without any whittling of the case or bending of the connector. Other than that, it’s not very useful now that I have FG99.

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There are issues with the number of signal lines the Widget cuts and some of the modern cartridge boards. A lot of them (FG99 and the UberGROM for sure) use some signals that were uncommonly used BITD--and these signals make the cartridge "sort of" respond even when the Widget has cut the 5V signal to that slot. @Sinphaltimuswas trying to develop a new version of the Widget that cut all of the necessary signals, but I believe the project got shelved due to some hardware issues encountered during development. There was a whole thread dedicated to it a few years back.

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So far as the UberGROM goes, it's worse than that. The Widget turns off GROM to a slot by disabling only the -5v power line. But modern carts don't use -5v, so the GROM stays activated. Kind of a questionable way to do it back in the day, but they got away with it because of the way real GROM chips work.

 

I spent a little time trying to make a simple circuit that could let the UberGROM detect the -5v line and so turn itself off, but I didn't have much success. That requires someone who likes analog circuits (or another chip, I was trying to do without.)

 

(added) If I remember correctly, the likely reason they did this was because to properly cut off the GROM would require gating both GROM Select and GROM Ready, otherwise the deselected chips would lock up the system the first time GROM was accessed. I think the Widget only switches two lines - so ROM select (as would be expected), and -5V for the GROM (unexpected, but worked on real GROMs.)

 

Edited by Tursi
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  • 3 weeks later...

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