Intellivision Fight Stick adapter

[tripletopper]

I see people make Master System and 2600 and Genesis adapters to Intellivision.

 

I understand the basic concept, that the intellivision has 16 separate actuator for each direction. And there's a button code which can allow many single inputs, but multiple inputs is gobbledygook. A lot of Intellivision game instructions warn against that.

 

Whereas fight sticks have only 4 cardinal actuators, and the diagonals are 2 cardinals simultaneously.. In other words, forward plus jump equals forward jump. N + E = NE

I think I can get part of it by hacking an original INTV controller (or a flashback) The 3 buttons can be solder wired.

 

I assume you can use a Y-cable in DB9 and get a keypad with working buttons together with a cannibalized one to get the joystick and 3 action buttons working. And I assume cannibalizing an INTV controller is the easiest way to get discrete controllers working with coded PCBs

 

The problem is getting the 4 cardinals, when NOT diagonal go to the 4 cardnal spots on the INTV pad that's hacked, AND get the 4 diagonals hacked to a separate 4 actuators. So that it's EITHER a cardinal or a diagonal, but not both.

Is there some sort of circuit which can do what is described, turn 4 actuators plus their combinations into 8 separate discrete actuation signals? If someone can point me to that, then I think I can get the rest handled.

[tripletopper]

The easiest way to make a universal stick is to have discrete inputs and wire them into a controller. It’s called pad hacking.

 

One problem what the intellivision: Making northeast is different electronically than a simple N+E NE. It's a signal separate from N and E

 

My joystick, as well as pretty much any digital joystick that isn’t Intellivision, has 4 actuators, N, S, E, and W, and diagonals are simultaneous actuation of 2 adjacent cardinals.

 

Is there a circuit with this logic that is either ready to buy or can be made easily by someone who understands it?:

 

1= N = N AND (NOT (W OR E)

2= NE = N AND E

3= E = E AND (NOT (N OR S)

4= SE = S AND E

5= S = S AND (NOT (W OR E)

6= SW = S AND W

7= W = W AND (NOT (N OR S)

8= NW = N AND W

 

By the way, understand games that need 16 ways cannot be played this way without sacrificing gameplay.

[mr_me]

The intellivision circuits under the disc doesn't have 16 actuators; it does connect various circuits together 16 different ways. Five pins (plus ground) are involved altogether. The four cardinal directions are simply four individual pins. Combining two, e.g. N+E, does produce a diagonal. Intellivision has three diagonals in each quadrant, and, depending on the cartridge, combining the two pins alone doesn't always produce the expected diagonal at a 45d angle.

 

1 left

2 up

3 right

4 down

5 ground

6+8 top side action

 

The above pinout should work for a 4-way joystick plugged into an intellivision de-9 connector.

 

Here's a project that has it working with correct diagonals and all three action buttons.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/214965-intellivision-joystick-hacked-a-tv-pp/

 

And here's a reference on the intellivision controller pinout.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web%20Archives/Deathskull%20(May-2006)/games/tech/intvcont.html

 

And here's a reference on adapter circuits with electronics for the diagonals.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web%20Archives/Deathskull%20%28May-2006%29/games/tech/intvsticky.html

Edited April 15, 2019 by mr_me

[mr_me]

The intellivion side action buttons don't interfere with the disc so they can be used at the same time.

 

And I don't think using parts from an intellivision controller can help adapt a joystick except for using the cable connector.

Edited April 15, 2019 by mr_me

[tripletopper]

I’m just wondering if there’s a way you can pad hack an INTV. I assume there are 16 contact areas that you can wire, (maybe actuator is the wrong word) Basically you’re pressing exactly 1 button along a 16 button circle, and the button activates certain pins to turn on, So N activate one combination, NNE activates another, NE yet another, etc., all the way around. I assume the disc prevents physically pressing more than one button. If one WERE to physically actuate more than 1, then you get gobbledygook pins. Same with more than one key, except for the pause combination. And I assume more than one button also has problems.

 

So you’re saying there no circuit board, just a bunch y-connected wires which only makes sense if only one direction button or button or key is pressed

 

I got a fight stick with one pin for each cardinal direction, and diagonals made by making combinations or 2 adjacent cardinals.

 

I see Bacman has a 4-way circuit. So a 4-way INTV circuit is easy. But the problem comes with diagonals. I was thinking if there was a way to make a NE signal separate from N+E then I can wire the NE signal into the NE "button" which would activate the NE circuit and not the N or the E circuits.

 

If there were a way instead of having 4 signals equalling 8 directions, to make each of the 8 ways a separate wire, then I run the wire from each of the 8 ways to the 8 ways on the pad with a pad-hack direct wiring.

 

If I were to find such a circuit that does what I suggest, and one is willing to sacrifice a working INTV controller, then this should be easily doable by a guy who knows how to do basic pad hacking.

 

Anyone heard of a circuit which turns component diagonals into discrete diagonals? if so, I can hire my guy to do it for me.

[tripletopper]

Okay, I looked at he links, and saw the cardinals are simple run-throughs, and the diagonal are combinations of the 2 cardinals + a third pin which differentiates it between NE and NNE, but if the third pin is activated with one cardinal only then it’s a different tertiary input. So you only want the pin to activate when a diagonal is activated, and not when a cardinal or neutral is actuated.I assume those numbered circuits are standard parts where you wire 2 inputs and the circuit does its intended job and are available at mouser.com , among other places.

 

For the buttons I got 11 buttons (remember fight stick) So I could designate 3 of those buttons as straight wired into the 3 button pins and the extras is only for a master systems converting 2 buttons into 3.

 

As for the keypad, I can wire in a 3 in-1-out connector have the circuit for the joystick and buttons, have a keypad for straight pressing, and dismantle another keypad with 3.5mm connections for a few key buttons to be key keyboard presses for Mouse Trap where 1I can ahrd wire 4 buttons to be, 2, 3, and 5, used for doors and dog.

 

Finally is Flashback mapping a horizontal mirror opposite to the Original INTV 2 hookup? Is so then 1=5, 2=4, 3=3, 4=2, 5=1, 6=9, 7=8, 8=7, and 9=6, right?

[mr_me]

From what I see in the links it looks like the 8-way joystick diagonals can be done with a 74x00 logic chip. It basically runs the directions through a couple of nand gates to get the diagonal pin. If someone can come up with a clever way to do this without needing external power it would be nice.

 

All the intellivision buttons including the side action buttons behave like single throw double pole switches. You should otherwise be able to do it with diodes.

 

There's no pattern to the flashback pinout that I can see.

2609, Sears/II, Flashback	

ground		1   5	3
down/row1	2   4   1
right/row2	3   3   8
up/row3		4   2	4
left/row4	5   1   9
diagonals       6   9   5
sideAB/col3     7   8   6
sideBC/col2     8   7   7
sideAC/col1     9   6   2

Edited April 15, 2019 by mr_me

[+wongojack]

The intellivision circuits under the disc doesn't have 16 actuators; it does connect various circuits together 16 different ways. Five pins (plus ground) are involved altogether. The four cardinal directions are simply four individual pins. Combining two, e.g. N+E, does produce a diagonal. Intellivision has three diagonals in each quadrant, and, depending on the cartridge, combining the two pins alone doesn't always produce the expected diagonal at a 45d angle.

 

1 left

2 up

3 right

4 down

5 ground

6+8 top side action

 

The above pinout should work for a 4-way joystick plugged into an intellivision de-9 connector.

 

Here's a project that has it working with correct diagonals and all three action buttons.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/214965-intellivision-joystick-hacked-a-tv-pp/

 

And here's a reference on the intellivision controller pinout.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web%20Archives/Deathskull%20(May-2006)/games/tech/intvcont.html

 

And here's a reference on adapter circuits with electronics for the diagonals.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web%20Archives/Deathskull%20%28May-2006%29/games/tech/intvsticky.html

 

Here's a project that has it working with correct diagonals and all three action buttons.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/214965-intellivision-joystick-hacked-a-tv-pp/

 

That's mine. I still have that stick and it is still working. The plug and play gives the distinct advantage of having a battery compartment built in. AND because the gate only requires like 3 volts (if that), I can use almost dead batteries to run it. They last forever.

 

Anyway, what really broke things open for me was building the project on a breakout board. I am not an engineer, so I was feeling my way through it all, and breaking things out let me refine my design. Sadly, I've never built another Intellivision stick, but I have built one for the 7800 (which was MUCH easier).

[Swami]

 

From what I see in the links it looks like the 8-way joystick diagonals can be done with a 74x00 logic chip. It basically runs the directions through a couple of nand gates to get the diagonal pin. If someone can come up with a clever way to do this without needing external power it would be nice.

 

All the intellivision buttons including the side action buttons behave like single throw double pole switches. You should otherwise be able to do it with diodes.

 

There's no pattern to the flashback pinout that I can see.

2609, Sears/II, Flashback	

ground		1   5	3
down/row1	2   4   1
right/row2	3   3   8
up/row3		4   2	4
left/row4	5   1   9
diagonals       6   9   5
sideAB/col3     7   8   6
sideBC/col2     8   7   7
sideAC/col1     9   6   2

The Intellivision is not a ColecoVision, but on the ColecoVision someone at Edladdin was able to work out a way to steal the 3V for the chip from the console for an adapter that could use a Genesis, CV FB or 7800 controller, but it did not take much to reduce the needed current or voltage (like the equivalent of a controller extension cord or less), so with games with actual 3V trigger threshold or close to it, the controller did not work as it should and they ended up adding a 3V battery on the stick. Maybe using a little higher voltage would help, but It seems like a tricky thing to do.

 

I feel like those Flashback people were just messing with us, or is that randomness not so random on a NOAC.

[mr_me]

Here's what the intellivision controller flex circuit looks like with some colouring added. The left side folds over the right side. They are pressed together whenever the user presses the disc or a button.

http://spinalcode.co.uk/2018/03/27/intellivision/

 

[tripletopper]

Okay, so I don’t need to take apart an INTV controller for anything except using outside buttons to actuate a few keypad presses. I assume for keypad presses I can have 3.5 mm connectors on the buttons, and have those wires plugged into fight stick buttons.

 

Since my INTV 1 is flashback modded, and I have a spare Flashback controller to be taken apart, i could wire 3 buttons directly to the 3 buttons on the side. (Which button is repeated on both sides, the top or bottom? I guess I could look at the various overlays until I find an example, and see which row is the same on both sides and which is not.) and wire 3.5 mm connectors to actuate keypad presses on the fight stick. Plus if I need an actual pad to use an overlay, I could just use a DB9 to wire it. Finally, I just use the Flashback pins. since everything p to the FB->INTV 1 hookup is flashback that would work.

 

I assume I just have to supply a 5V adapter, like a USB cable and a USB cable to AC power receptacle adapter. Then I could power those 3 chips which combine to make a secondary pin actuated to get a secondary diagonal, and avoid tertiaries. Plus my DB 37 has one pin designated as Voltage, would I run the power through the voltage pin or is the voltage separate form the DB9 scheme of the INTV to power the diagonalizer? I could run a USB cable where it says internal connection if my joystick guy can only operate on Joysticks and not on Colnsoles. And if I’m wiring 3 buttons using the pad hack method, then I don’t the extra 5 V and 4.7K something to activate fire buttons.

Did I successfully find the parts needed? https://www.mouser.com/_/?Keyword=7400+Quad+NAND&FS=True Are they as simple of hoking up 2 inputs and one output of each chip?

 

Finally, If I want to take it to a Sears Super Telegames, or INTV 2, I just plug a FB->INTV2 adapter on the end closest to the machine, and bring my flashback pad.

[+wongojack]

You are all over the place. Just start by getting a DB9 extension cord, cut off one end (or both if testing on INTV 1). Hook up a single button that is normally open and closes when pushed. Move the wires around and test successfully pushing all 3 side buttons. You can replicate most of the directions this way too. Do this until you comprehend the entire pinout. After that you should write down all the steps you are going to take to build a stick. None of the parts inside the Intellivision controller should be needed.

[mr_me]

The only thing that will work connected directly to switches like that are the four directions: right, up, left, down. All the intellivision buttons including the side action buttons behave like double pole switches. The top side action buttons ground pins 6 and 8 together.

 

The intellivision controller port does not supply power. You'll have to get power from some other source.

Edited April 18, 2019 by mr_me

[+wongojack]

Don't confuse the guy. This isn't THAT hard. Just basic testing is my point.

 

0) Look up the pinout

1) Hook up a few wires to a button

2) Watch what happens on screen

2) Turn off the Intellivision

3) Switch the wires

4) Repeat

5) Write down what you learn

 

 

This is how I got started when I built the stick you linked above.

[tripletopper]

First of all, I’m not converting from a coded joystick PCB. All directions and buttons on my default controller are represented by individual wires. So In theory, I could hook up one direction to one physical direction on the hacked pad. The whole point of the pad hack method is you don’t have to know how the joystick encodes the signal. Just give it a jolt to activate the button.

 

The 3 side buttons can be done that way. I don’t have to know how the machine codes it, let the hacked controller determine what goes on.

 

The Keypad buttons can also be done in that way. I can have 3.5 mm females installed and let one particular fight stick button equal any of the 12 keypad buttons by making the 3.5 mm connection.

 

All it needs is an electrical impulse to active the button.

 

The problem with the direct pin method for directions is that N pin + E Pin <> NE Code. Instead N Pin +E PIn = NNE code. I could use the first link @wongojack made to make a correct 8-way hookup. I found the name of a part I need to order 3 of for the directions.

 

The problem with direct hookup is that I only have 4 directional inputs, and most consoles work on the basis of diagonals equalling 2 adjacent cardinals. There are 16 regions, and I need 8 of them, but to activate 8 separate regions, I need 8 separate wires for each of the 8 regions If I were to make a diagonal with direct actuation, I have to turn on the diagonal, and turn off the cardinals when diagonals are activated.

 

If someone knows a way to build a logic circuit to convert to 4-cardinal to 8-cardinal+diagonal then the 8 directions can be wired to the 4 cardinals and 4 secondaries, with the secondaries being separate, and therefore locking out the cardinals wen a diagonal was active, that would be appreciated.

 

It also seems weird to use both a direct pin method for the directions and the pad hack method for the buttons and keys. I would prefer the logic circuit which I discussed in post 1.

 

By the way, when using the pad hack method, where and how would one wire the diagonal wire? There’s got to be some point where you wire the electrical impulse generator to "turn on" the secondary, and the primary, separately, and avoid the tertiaries.

[mr_me]

Use the schematic from here to do the diagonals. You just need one quad nand gate chip.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web%20Archives/Deathskull%20%28May-2006%29/games/tech/intvsticky.html

 

In that schematic the diagonal circuit is marked pin 9 for a sears/II de9 connector.

Edited April 18, 2019 by mr_me

[tripletopper]

Yes I see the wiring diagram, and I see earlier the Flashback Pins. I can use those. I was curious, and just don’t know if it’s possible, if you could have a hybrid Direct Pin for the 8 directions using the circuit on the link above and simultaneously have direct electronic actuation of buttons and keys, simultaneously.

 

If it could be done, I would need a W-splitter, 3 in, one out. One for the direct pins of the joystick, one for the 3.5 actuated buttons, and one for a real flashback controller all running into a flashback modded INTV.

 

Can the joystick be actuated by the logic circuit mention in the last link above, as well as the buttons and keys be actuated by direct pad-hack input, and have a third one accept finger input of keys?

[+wongojack]

I know what I think which is that all those wires need to be combined down to 9 pins and the INTV will have to read them that way even if they are completely separated in your "fight stick."

 

But . . . .You should attempt what you are proposing and tell us what you find.

[mr_me]

You could use that same schematic to do two action buttons. But it's two buttons with the third action by a combo press. Hopefully someone can provide a schematic to do all three action buttons. That should cover keypad buttons as well since they are similar. I think action/keypad buttons can be done with diodes and no logic gates.

Edited April 18, 2019 by mr_me

[tripletopper]

I assume if it’s a straight W wiring, 3 in one out, and I follow all the rules of the Intellivision input restrictions, like only having a button and disc actuated simultaneously, no keypad press with anything else or multiple key presses, which I believe its the rule, (correct me if I’m wrong) then the pin logic should straighten itself out, assuming I follow the basic rules and not try a button, key and direction all at once.

 

And my my method has 3 independent buttons, I heard any 2 can activate a "multipress" mode, meaning any 2 buttons or all 3 buttons are all treated the same, right.

 

Whatever the logic of the original INTV controller is, that will be followed, regardless whether it’s all 1 unit or W-ed into 3, right?

[+grips03]

If you add rapid fire I'll order two

[mr_me]

You can use a Y-adapter and connect two controllers into one port at the same time.

 

You can press multiple buttons at the same time, it's up to the program to interpret the code it produces. For example pressing keypad 1 and 9 at the same time will pause the game for many cartridges. Pressing clear and enter however produces the exact same code as pressing disc left and the top side button.

 

The top side button grounds pins 6+8, bottom left 7+8, and bottom right grounds pins 6+7. Pressing any two side buttons grounds pins 6+7+8 and intellivision has no idea which two were pressed. Most intellivision games mirror the bottom left and right buttons anyway, but the program still has to account for this case. Defender for example will fire a missile and smart bomb at the same time. Other cartridges might do nothing.

[tripletopper]

@grips03 I’m only designing this for me for now. I want this to be Twin Galaxies legal.

 

I think I got it. I can use a trident, and have a direct pin adapter, an INTVFB with 3.5 mm for inputs ad fire buttons, and an intact INTVFB for keypad pressing.

 

By the way one question I just thought of. If I’m getting each individual button on the keypad wired, and I know that 2 particular buttons together are always pause, and knowing the free-flow nature of electricity where a dumb Y adapter can be either 2-in 1-out, or 1-in 2-out there got to be some way to press one without the other, and it’s not a simple switch, but needs brians. What are the 2 buttons that represent pause in every game, (I never owned an INTV in the day, what was the pause combo?) and how do I make that a separate 3.5 mm hookup for their combo in addition to having those 2 individual buttons active. So If it’s 1 and 7, how do I have 3 RCA cables with a 1, a 7, and a 1+7, and have them assigned to 3 different buttons?

 

Maybe I can use direct Pin actuation fof the pins or the "pause combo" (may someone tell me what the pause combo is in terms of Flashback pins?)

[mr_me]

The pause code is pins 2,4,6,8 on a sears/II DE9 (1,2,4,6 on a flashback de9 if I'm not mistaken). Pressing keypad 1+9 or 3+7 produces it. Many cartridges use it but not all do. I think you can do it by wiring the pins to one switch/button with a diode on each line. I wouldn't bother, I'd just use a regular controller to pause.

Edited April 21, 2019 by mr_me