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Accurancy of the printer emulation


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Poll: Accurancy of the printer emulation (13 member(s) have cast votes)

How accurate should the emulation be?

  1. It should look like it looks on the original printer. (9 votes [69.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.23%

  2. It suffices when it fits on the line like on the original printer. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Main point is I can print something (4 votes [30.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

  4. I don't care (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

How accurate should the proportional font emulation be.

  1. The spacing should be accurate, so a line behaves like on the original printer. The characters could overlap on the output device. (9 votes [69.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 69.23%

  2. The spacing should be so like the selected font on the output device. It could be that the line wraps around, where it doesn't on the original printer. (1 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  3. I don't care. (3 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

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#1 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:31 AM

I'm at a point in the development of the printer emulation, at which I have to decide, where I will be going with the accurancy.

Please, consider the questions so that I know what you want.


Edited by JoSch, Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:33 AM.


#2 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:56 AM

If I am using daisy dots, print shop, the news room, or typesetter... Not to mention some of the better word processors, the output has to be as good as the original printers if not better, any less is a mess.



#3 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:37 PM

Hello JoSch

 

The result should be the same as on the printer selected from the menu.  I've tried DaisyDot III with a Canon Bubblejet years ago.  Where a nine pin NLQ printer would print round dots, the CBJ printed squares.  The results were horrible!

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS I voted "I don't care" on the second question because I don't understand the other two options and I had to select one.


Edited by Mathy, Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:38 PM.


#4 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:29 PM


PS I voted "I don't care" on the second question because I don't understand the other two options and I had to select one.

Some Atari printers and (certainly) all of the ESC/P printers have the ability to print proportional fonts.

We have tables that show the width of each of the characters like 'i' being 5 dots wide, while 'M' is 9 dots wide.

So, when the installed fonts are used, I don't have the same characters width.

Option 1 means, that when the used font has wider characters than the printer would have, e.g. the 'M' would overlap the 'i' for the sake of accurate spacings.

Option 2 means, we don't care about the spacing of the emulated printer. But then the printed line could be longer than it would be on the emulated printer, and so could wrap around.

 

Mathy, could I make the options clearer? Any questions left?



#5 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:00 AM

Hello JoSch

 

Yes you did, thanks.  Maybe you could make this user selectable?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#6 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:13 AM

Hello JoSch

 

Yes you did, thanks.  Maybe you could make this user selectable?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

I probably could. But first, I have to refactor the whole printer emulation to native output interaction.

There are so many printer types to consider, that I have to think about how to present them.



#7 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:18 AM

Hello JoSch

 

Maybe it's easier to send the data to a PDF file instead of a printer?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#8 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:15 AM

Hello JoSch

 

Maybe it's easier to send the data to a PDF file instead of a printer?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

There is a misunderstanding. I meant the types of emulated printers.

We have at least one plotter (Atari 1020), daisy wheels (Atari 1027, Atari XDM121), matrix printer with text only (Atari 825), matrix printers with text and graphics (eg. Atari 1029) and then the odd text only matrix printer with roll paper (Atari 820).

I hope, you get my drift ;-)

And don't get me started on all the ESC/P compatible printers.



#9 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:54 AM

To be honest, I think many - if not most - users really crave a graphics-capable emulated printer output. For raw text, we already have numerous options and honestly most people aren’t using Atari computers for actual word processing and final drafts of important documents.

But what we do not have access to is the ability to do dot matrix prints from graphics programs or things like The Print Shop. Being able to produce a PDF or SVG file or something from a generic 9-pin Epson compatible printer driver on the Atari would be awesome.

#10 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:18 AM

To be honest, I think many - if not most - users really crave a graphics-capable emulated printer output. For raw text, we already have numerous options and honestly most people aren’t using Atari computers for actual word processing and final drafts of important documents.

But what we do not have access to is the ability to do dot matrix prints from graphics programs or things like The Print Shop. Being able to produce a PDF or SVG file or something from a generic 9-pin Epson compatible printer driver on the Atari would be awesome.

Yes, I can see that. But there is still The Last Word. I had the impression, that there some people still using that. And TLW only uses text output.

What I want to do is a most capable emulation.


Edited by JoSch, Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:19 AM.


#11 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:22 AM

Indeed: I know of one forum member who uses TLW to create documents for his work, and who prints them out using a real printer.



#12 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:28 AM

Indeed: I know of one forum member who uses TLW to create documents for his work, and who prints them out using a real printer.


I certainly don’t mean to denigrate TLW. It’s an amazing word processor, certainly the best and most full-featured ever created for the A8. I would have loved to have it in 1984 when I got my first disk drive for my 800. :)

And just this past weekend I made sure to copy it over onto a partition on a new CF card for my 1088XLD.

That said, my “real” document creation is through MS Office at work on company-owned computers. Most of those documents are distributed by email or uploaded to a project database for direct access by team members and never even get printed. On my laptop I have a $7/month subscription to Office and the full suite of Office tools, mostly for Excel but Word comes as part of the deal.

So on my Atari, while I might produce a document occasionally these days for nostalgia, I’d be much more inclined to do something retro-graphics related if I could get the output to a PDF.

#13 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:45 AM

So on my Atari, while I might produce a document occasionally these days for nostalgia, I’d be much more inclined to do something retro-graphics related if I could get the output to a PDF.

Eventually, we will get there ;-)



#14 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:19 AM

No criticism of the word processor was inferred. I simply point out that there are people still using A8 word processors to produce printed material, and that emulated text mode printer output would therefore be useful. Indeed, it would be especially useful for development, since I don't even have a printer rigged up to an Atari. So the only way I can test the print processor is via print to disk, which does not account for printer character styling using embedded formatting codes, etc.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:19 AM.


#15 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:23 AM

I would also like to see a no emulation option where every byte sent by the Atari goes directly to the printer unchanged. Maybe add a CR or CR/LF option.



#16 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:09 AM

Actually, we have a text output window. Perhaps I can extend it, so that all the control codes are shown (if that's not already the case).



#17 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:34 PM

To clarify what I wrote above:

I want to be able to choose a printer (from the Windows printer list) and print directly to it. That's why I mentioned the 'no translation' and CR/LF options.



#18 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:36 PM

Ah, and no translation means dropping all the control codes and print only the text.
If so, then select the text window as output and print from there.

#19 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:15 PM

Hello JoSch

 

There is a misunderstanding. I meant the types of emulated printers.

We have at least one plotter (Atari 1020), daisy wheels (Atari 1027, Atari XDM121), matrix printer with text only (Atari 825), matrix printers with text and graphics (eg. Atari 1029) and then the odd text only matrix printer with roll paper (Atari 820).

I hope, you get my drift ;-)

And don't get me started on all the ESC/P compatible printers.

 

Most "modern" printers have a resolution much higher than the printers from the era when Atari was still selling printers.  Why would characters be wider on the emulated printer than on the real thing?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy


Edited by Mathy, Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:15 PM.


#20 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:24 AM

For proportional fonts there is no telling, how they are built. Font are measured in points, i.e. 1/72 inch. That means that the font size is really independent of the resolution. All the resolution does is, you don't see the dot matrix anymore.



#21 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:16 PM

they used to call that microfeed, it is very predictable and should be mathematically viable to reproduce.

 

 

Ah, and no translation means dropping all the control codes and print only the text.
If so, then select the text window as output and print from there.

not at all, no translation means passing the data to the printer untouched, exactly as the Atari sends it, this allows you to have the legacy printer on the PC and use the Atari with respeqt running to print remotely to the printer and help out those without an 850/pr/mio/black box/axiom/supra/ xetec whatever printer interface...


Edited by _The Doctor__, Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:17 PM.


#22 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:24 PM

they used to call that microfeed, it is very predictable and should be mathematically viable to reproduce.

 

 

not at all, no translation means passing the data to the printer untouched, exactly as the Atari sends it, this allows you to have the legacy printer on the PC and use the Atari with respeqt running to print remotely to the printer and help out those without an 850/pr/mio/black box/axiom/supra/ xetec whatever printer interface...

Then, I misunderstrood Kyle22.

Well, I don't know whether that's easily doable with Windows and Macos. I have to research this. Let's see.



#23 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:16 PM

I finished raw support for Win32. Appended is as always the binary only zip.

Go to the settings and under "Raw printer settings", select one of your printers.

In the Printer strip select "Passthrough" as printer type and "Raw printer" as output type.

Since I don't have an Epson or so printer, I just did test it with a "Generic Text Printer". That worked.

If somebody can please test it, and give me feedback, I would be grateful.

 

Attached File  RespeQt_win32-binaryonly.zip   18.61MB   10 downloads


Edited by JoSch, Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:18 PM.


#24 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:45 PM

Here another drop, this time for MacOS.

Perhaps somebody with an old printer on an network share can test this.

 

Attached File  RespeQt_mac-binaryonly.zip   10.29MB   5 downloads



#25 JoSch ONLINE  

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Posted Mon May 13, 2019 2:24 PM

Had anyone success with the passthrough option?





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