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why I hate commodore 64


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#101 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:03 PM

What does the word "fluffy" mean to you? This is what I mean about sometimes you make absolutely no sense. Cotton balls are fluffy, kittens are fluffy, pillows are fluffy...

Maybe fluffy implies the blockiness inherent in Graphics 7 (ANTIC mode D).  Doesn't matter what discussion is, ANTIC D is the solution.  If I wasn't so busy, I'd search that phrase and compare it to his post count :)

 


#102 x=usr(1536) OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:41 PM

 

Maybe fluffy implies the blockiness inherent in Graphics 7 (ANTIC mode D).  Doesn't matter what discussion is, ANTIC D is the solution.  If I wasn't so busy, I'd search that phrase and compare it to his post count icon_smile.gif

 

 

 

Higher-resolution graphics?  ANTIC D.

 

House-training a puppy?  ANTIC D.

 

Headache?  Apply ANTIC D directly to the forehead!

 

Etc., etc., etc.



#103 carlsson ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:44 PM

In order to treat hemorrhoids, I believe Preparation H is better suited than ANTIC D though.

#104 RangerG OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:38 PM

I am not a C64 fanboy. My favorite console is the 5200. But, this port really is amazing. I play it on a C128, so this helps a little with the speed. It just plays so well and the music is outstanding. I had to get used to up being jump, but I got it now and the game is addictive and fun just like on the NES.

#105 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:39 PM

What does the word "fluffy" mean to you? This is what I mean about sometimes you make absolutely no sense. Cotton balls are fluffy, kittens are fluffy, pillows are fluffy...


So it means the correct thing.
Also interesting, people join such Threads without any sensibility for the content.
A fluffy shirt gives the freedom for movement, while chains won't .

A good game moves the protagonist around, to make the Player feeling free for the controls over it. The visuals do the same.
A bad game moves in chains. Do a pixel, move a pixel, loop...


Have a look at Sheddy's Space Harrier. The Protagonist moves free and independent from the screen.
Look at Alley Cat that's a fluffy control , and the protagonist seems fluffy, too ;)

Perhaps in a flight simulator, the "do a dot, move a dot" programming is good for the simulation chain... but


Have a look at those:





I wonder , if people realize the difference.
And, no, It's not about the graphics or sound.

#106 R0ger OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:12 AM

Ok. Now I'm even more confused about fluffy controls. But listing the games is good approach to define the term I guess.



#107 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:05 AM

fluffy- polished responsive or quick control of movement.



#108 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:54 AM

fluffy- polished responsive or quick control of movement.

This is new to me. And never would have thought of using the word for this in a million years, and still don't intend too, as it still makes no logical sense to me to use that word for that description, and never will. But at least I know what the heck he's talking about now.


Edited by Gunstar, Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:05 AM.


#109 mika OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:06 AM

I spent more time playing 2600 games, and what I have noticed that as often as there are some amazing technical advancements in homebrew programming community, the fluffiness of controls is quite often missing. i don't know if that's also the case in 8-bit homebrew scene. the good examples would be 2600 ports of Mappy and Aardvark. Panky the Panda would be the opposite for me. As cool as the game was, the way character controls is... rough (hey, 'rough' is an antonym of 'fluffy'!)

 

the C64 port of super mario is perfect in terms of controls fluffiness - I have spent looooots of time with NES original, so except from obvious issue of no joystick second button the plumber behaves the same - there is the same joy of controlling him on the screen, the port is very succesful in replicating this.

 

that's my interpretation of what fluffy means. definitely not the word I would use, but pretty clear (I think? :D unless I got it wrong haha)



#110 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:21 AM

"Fluffy" is not to "einen Stock im Arsch haben" . Sorry, I don't find the correct words in English for that.
That's why I used that word ;). It exists also in German "fluffig" for a light and creamy cake.

It's attracting the player by the ease of movement on the screen. It's not just like "hey, I'm a game, so get me as I am". It's more like "Hey, I'm a game , look and feel the fun of playing me" . OK, I didn't want to write that, because people may think of something else there ... ;)

Just like to pet an animal's fluffy fur, or to eat a fluffy cake.

;)

The not so funny part is that a lot games struggle in their presentation. Particular scrolling games with sprites, because of the CPU limitation.
There are many games using Antic D , and they were benefitting by better FPS, better gaming response, flexible presentation of independent moving objects.

#111 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:34 AM

Mode D Games:

Starraiders
Rescue on Fractalus.
GYRUSS
Space Harrier
WAYOUT
Pharaoh's Curse
and so on...


Also:

(The explosion in Drop Zone)
(Zooming window in Star Trek)


Don't forget:

That is what the Atari has been built for:




or




#112 Wrathchild OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:09 AM

? Food Fight look to be Mode-E to me and Drop Zone Mode-4 ?



#113 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:39 AM

? Food Fight look to be Mode-E to me and Drop Zone Mode-4 ?


Right. And Food Fight has no background, it has flat colored objects. But it drops a lot frames already.

Drop zone switches to mode D for the fluent explosion animation.

#114 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:57 AM

The point is that for those "scrolling with sprites" games all tricks have been used already. In Drop Zone, the mix of DL setting and PM usage is great.
As missiles were used for the stars in the background, the resolutions mix a little for the perfect illusion.
Have a look how weak the C64 explosion looks.

#115 pixelmischief OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:59 AM

I don't get the excitement surrounding SMB.

 

Despite being a blatant ripoff, IMO Great Gianna Sisters is a better game.  To the point that Nintendo themselves actually released it for the DS.

 

You really think Great Gianna Sisters is a better game?  In what way?  I think:

 

The jump physics feel better in SMB.

The enemy design is more attractive and has greater variety in SMB.

The level design is better balanced in SMB.

The secrets and warps are more cleverly designed in SMB.

The music and sound effects are of higher quality in SMB.

 

What of these would you disagree with?



#116 Wrathchild OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:41 PM

Still... ???

 

dz_dlist.png



#117 R0ger OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:55 PM

Damn I clicked on the Fractalus video, and of course I exactly hit the spot with the monster.



#118 toddtmw OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:57 PM

Great. Gianna. Sisters
Super. Mario. Brothers

Which came first? One stole from the other.

#119 R0ger OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:10 PM

Great. Gianna. Sisters
Super. Mario. Brothers

Which came first? One stole from the other.

 

No kidding. I never thought of that ! :-D



#120 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:22 PM

Still... ???
 
attachicon.gifdz_dlist.png


Hm.. Seems my gesture was wrong there. Even more odd is , why he did it that way? It's exactly handling 2 bytes like mode D , while mode D would offer A LOT more CPU cycles.
Also strange is the fact that during the explosion the graphics content is fully changing. Just the missiles keep their position.

#121 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:32 PM

Actually, it makes no sense. I checked Star Trek, and it also used mode 4 with double lined content.
This is really odd. But it only means that those games could have been a lot faster, if they used mode 5 instead. Not to talk about Mode D , that was the only way to get GYRUSS working that fluent.

Edited by emkay, Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:19 PM.


#122 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:35 PM

Wrathchild, you actually broke my view of Archer McLean, as he doesn't seem that perfect to me now. ;)

#123 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:04 PM

Great. Gianna. Sisters
Super. Mario. Brothers

Which came first? One stole from the other.


If the question was serious, here the answer: Ofcourse Super Mario Bros was first. They wanted to make the game for the C64. First they had been forbidden to make a port, then Nintendo claimed the level design as "their's" , to cause the lock for the game to get sold. That made The Great Giana Sisters a legal "illegal" copied game, as it was the only way to spread the game, and to pee at Nintendo's legs ;)
Today Nintendo wouldn't get that backup by law, as level design isn't really copyrighted.
You could re create a Doom 3 game and name it Curse ;) , so they have serious problems to set a claim to the game.

Edited by emkay, Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:06 PM.


#124 Wrathchild OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:12 PM

Wrathchild, you actually broke my view of Archer McLean, as he doesn't seem that perfect to me now. ;)

 

Having ported Dropzone to the 5200 (and had a good look at IK) I can assure you that he's closer than a lot of us, yet we can still aspire ;)



#125 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:12 PM

hmmm, I bet with slight re-coding that games could be made just as you describe, what I would love to see is a hack by yourself or someone you've collaborated with doing just that and fixing up or adding cool things with the extra cycles or event making such games even more responsive. Sound like the cycles might even be used for better sounds or music or both.

 

I'm really interested in seeing these done, seeing it would sure help make hearts and even minds understand.






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