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Dumping ROMs without consent of machine owner


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#1 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:53 AM

Good story. I know we discussed this in the context of Marble Man.

https://arstechnica....-was-it-stolen/

I'm on Team Dump It While You Can And Never Mind The Collectors. Your opinion may well be different.

#2 zetastrike OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:27 AM

If you derive personal validation from having a video game that no one else has, you deserve to get that rug pulled out from under you.

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#3 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:48 AM

The rom images do not belong to the machine owner. The right to make copies belong to the copyright owner. The machine owner was not harmed, there was no theft.

#4 GoldenWheels OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:31 AM

"There were only three machines ever built. All are in high-end collections. One collector had a tech come and work on some of his games. The unscrupulous tech copied the ROMS without permission. The game was not broken and not one he was supposed to "fix." The owner is reviewing a couple of months of security video to see if he can catch him in the act. This is the first time that someone has actually had the balls to steal ROMS from a collector."

 

I don't care about the rom or the game or the concept of "theft" here particularly either. But if the above story is true, I've always felt people just shouldn't touch other people's shit unless they have permission.



#5 H.E.R.O. OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:38 AM

I, for one, cannot wait for the day I can download a car.



#6 boxpressed OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:45 AM

This reminds me of how magic users were supposed to acquire spells in the old AD&D. You couldn't just pick the one you wanted out of the Player's Handbook but were supposed to find a scroll or a spellbook with the spell, and only then could you learn it. This ROM was like a 9th level spell, lol.

#7 John Stamos Mullet OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:49 AM

As far as "crimes" go, this is right up there with using a digital camera to take a photo in a museum with a sign that says "no flash photography" or tearing the tag off a mattress.

#8 Atariboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:52 AM

Don't believe the story and suspect it's just a cover story for an owner that decided they wanted these to be released.

 

That said, has anyone fired it up? Curious about thoughts on how the game plays. Didn't have any luck personally in tracking it down, so will wait a while and let it spread further. 



#9 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:58 AM

Why would someone cook up a villainous side story? Wouldn't coming off as the Good Guy be easier and better all around? As far as I can tell Billy Mitchell was not involved. It would get the same level of attention either way.

#10 Inky OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:03 AM

Game looks fun.  I have to try it out.



#11 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:25 AM

Don't believe the story and suspect it's just a cover story for an owner that decided they wanted these to be released.

One of the commenters seems to be thinking along the same lines as you

 

Why would they think this supposed tech would make ROMS onsite? They would just dump them, they don't need physical copies at all. They would just need to pull each chip and pop it into a EPROM programmer. That would still take a while - there are 19 to dump. 


It seems hard to believe that a tech would have that much undisturbed time mucking around in a cabinet they weren't even supposed to be servicing (at least a half hour and more likely an hour if you're being properly careful). I think it's plausible that someone is using this as a cover story for releasing the rom themselves, and more power to them for doing that. If the machines are using original EPROMS, they are well past their use-by date (25 years or so), so chances are the dump has long existed already - no collector of a machine of which there are only three in existence is going to go without backups.


#12 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:50 AM

"There were only three machines ever built. All are in high-end collections. One collector had a tech come and work on some of his games. The unscrupulous tech copied the ROMS without permission. The game was not broken and not one he was supposed to "fix." The owner is reviewing a couple of months of security video to see if he can catch him in the act. This is the first time that someone has actually had the balls to steal ROMS from a collector."
 
I don't care about the rom or the game or the concept of "theft" here particularly either. But if the above story is true, I've always felt people just shouldn't touch other people's shit unless they have permission.


Yeah, I view this as a courtesy issue rather than a legal one. To use an analogy, he didn't steal your rake, he just borrowed it without asking. Not cool, but don't try to frame it as theft when that's not what it is. So far, that seems to be the real source of complaints... the fact that what was once uniquely the collector's is now available to others.

The actual theft involved, the IP theft, doesn't bother me in the slightest. Nor do I really care that the resale value of the arcade unit might go down. But yeah, the "it's not yours, don't touch it" is a sticking point with me.

#13 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:56 AM

Needless to say, Arcade Cabinet Guy doesn't own the copyright of the material on the ROM chips, he just holds the media. Some people are speculating that the previous owner of the cabinet leaked the ROMs that were dumped long ago. Others are pointing out the "Asshole Victim" trope -- that keeping the stuff secret was so obnoxious, it's fun to see him suffer for it. 

 

All together now

 



#14 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:05 AM

The interesting thing here is how the accusation of theft is being discussed as if it's fact.



#15 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:15 AM

Supposedly, Arcade Cabinet Guy is poring over hours of video surveillance to try to prove it. But yeah, jumping to public judgment!



#16 JBerel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:28 AM

Having some experience with CCTV security systems, that line "poring over hours of video surveillance to try to prove it." doesn't hold water. If you're gonna open your mouth about it, you've already looked through what you have. Some BS about looking through months of recordings it just a deflection to arrive at an unresolved station keeping point. 

 

Either way, I don't much care. If a game wasn't mainstream enough that it's already been dumped and leaked to the section of the public that appreciates it, I could care less. I won't shed a tear for the misers sitting on it and calling it "my precious" if somebody dumps it against their wishes. I also don't really give a crap about the game in general. Those are usually not worth much to the world with rare exceptions.  I do think it's bad form to squat on those old roms if they could be preserved. All it takes is a bad capacitor blowing to burn down all these clowns precious rare collections. Hell, I bet most of them acquired these originally through questionable methods. The oft claimed dumpster diving bit is pretty thin, and most likely still illegal unless these were found sitting on the curb in the public right of way which is near impossible, If they were in a dumpster or anywhere on private property, that's called theft.    



#17 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:29 AM

Why would someone cook up a villainous side story? Wouldn't coming off as the Good Guy be easier and better all around? As far as I can tell Billy Mitchell was not involved. It would get the same level of attention either way.

If the owner released it, could be he wanted to release it without backlash or ex-communication from the collector community.

 

Yeah, I view this as a courtesy issue rather than a legal one. To use an analogy, he didn't steal your rake, he just borrowed it without asking. Not cool, but don't try to frame it as theft when that's not what it is. So far, that seems to be the real source of complaints... the fact that what was once uniquely the collector's is now available to others.

The actual theft involved, the IP theft, doesn't bother me in the slightest. Nor do I really care that the resale value of the arcade unit might go down. But yeah, the "it's not yours, don't touch it" is a sticking point with me.

I don't know if any laws exist about invasion of privacy when the invader has been invited into the place where the privacy was invaded. There could be a civil law case where he could sue for damages to the machines value and pain and suffering in terms of "violation". That's up to a civil judge or jury, of course.



#18 Newsdee OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:30 AM

Arcade Cab Guy probably paid a small fortune, and probably justified it to himself by the fact that he would be the gateway to playing this super rare game.

That's pretty much the only thing that was really "stolen" in my view. The cab is still rare and a special item, and it is undamaged.

#19 GoldenWheels OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:38 AM

Yeah, I view this as a courtesy issue rather than a legal one. To use an analogy, he didn't steal your rake, he just borrowed it without asking. Not cool, but don't try to frame it as theft when that's not what it is. So far, that seems to be the real source of complaints... the fact that what was once uniquely the collector's is now available to others.

The actual theft involved, the IP theft, doesn't bother me in the slightest. Nor do I really care that the resale value of the arcade unit might go down. But yeah, the "it's not yours, don't touch it" is a sticking point with me.

 

It's just a scummy thing to do. And in my mind, "preserving a game" in no way supercedes "It's not yours, don't touch it". Again, presuming, this fish tale all went down as described.



#20 godslabrat OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:39 AM

If the owner released it, could be he wanted to release it without backlash or ex-communication from the collector community.
 
I don't know if any laws exist about invasion of privacy when the invader has been invited into the place where the privacy was invaded. There could be a civil law case where he could sue for damages to the machines value and pain and suffering in terms of "violation". That's up to a civil judge or jury, of course.


In my view, a civil case over something so inconsequential boils down to "he was being a dick, and the other guy was likely being a dick too". Not really anyone's best moment, but also nothing worth crying on the internet over.

You had something that was rare. Now that thing you have is less rare. That's life, can't help it, tastes like chicken.

If I ever get to the point where my biggest worry in life is that someone else has something I have, kick me square in the nuts. Please.

#21 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:44 AM

So, we might have a collector muddying his chances of getting legal and monetary recompense coupled with an arcade technician ruining his own reputation (and thus business).

 

Or, ya know, the original statement of an anonymous donor is what it is.

 

One is more fun and dramatic certainly.


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#22 youxia OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:56 AM

Artist's impression:

 

the-raid.jpg



#23 Greg2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:10 AM

Take the game out of the equation....NO, we don't want people employed in our homes or businesses to snoop around and whatnot.  However, if this is the case, then OUT the tech, and see that his business is ruined.  Otherwise, who cares?  The "high end" hoarders get zero sympathy from me, never have.  I too feel like this is a made up story though.



#24 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:28 AM

I don't know about the truth of it, but I love the idea that someone signed up for a web forum in 2005 and didn't make a single post until many years later. :lol:



#25 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:28 AM

Has MAME not released this yet or is it still only in the big 60GB MAMEdev rom packs? Just wondering because I can't find it online on its own.






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