Phoenix video output

[mr_me]

 

Honest question here... have you ever played a game for fun, or is it only about beating it with a perfect score? Games are supposed to be enjoyed, not obsessed over.

A lot of younger gamers play video games to beat them, and never play them again. It's not unusual. Older gamers often look for replay value. Video games from the golden age often had playtime of only a few minutes so they had to have replay value. Still, playing these old vidro games with noticeable latency is not fun.

 

-----------

Tripletopper uses the word ping to describe display latency. So what, we know what he's talking about. Some use the term input lag which is technically incorrect. Input lag would be the latency from the controller and game processing while output lag is the display latency. Doesn't matter, I know what people are talking about.

 

Edit: I'll add that the fpga nature of the phoenix means that it's input lag should be no different than an original colecovision. It's output lag depends on the display system some of which is beyond the control of the phoenix.

Edited May 18, 2019 by mr_me

[Loafer]

Yeah let's be clear here there are a lot of other people who also really are concerned about the input lag issue, they just aren't present clients of the Phoenix so we don't hear about them. There's been more than one thread corrupted about classic gaming on CRT vs LCD on arcadecontrols.com that devolved... just like this one lol. but yeah if there's an issue its likely at the monitor/tv level I would think (and it usually is). If people are concerned with input lag, best go with a decent quality PC monitor with an HDMI in and enjoy. If not, do your research. But all the above aside, it's not wrong to ask for info on the specific plans for analog video out on the phoenix, I mean isn't that one of the reasons for this sub forum, for people to ask Phoenix related questions?

 

For the record, I don't care too much about input lag. I have a decent understanding of FPGA so I know the limitation is at my end so up to me to buy the right modern boob tube to lessen the issue. In saying that, I'm not a high score chaser and it's not like Phoenix has world wide cloud based leaderboards so I don't care . All I care about is I've bought into a system that will enable me to play real colecovision games using real peripherals without the need to worry that my system will break any minute now and if my CRT breaks, it's not the end of the world.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Loafer

[tripletopper]

Sorry, I’d like to simplify.

 

If there was a way you can add 3D to any TV, that would go a long way in helping me. Then I don’t have to have a separate low-ping monitor and a 3D monitor. I could buy a 3D processor and route all my content through it and to a low ping monitor, then that would be great. My device would be a simple passthrough which would add about a millisecond or less of ping, which is nothing unless you’re talking a CRT Light Gun Game, which we’re not because we’re talking modern TVs.

 

Also there are 2 retro light gun solutions that work with a modern TV that may 100% obsolete the CRT TV. One solution uses consoles, but uses the Wii Mote method which is highly inaccurate, though precise. Then there is visible light camera gun method, but that only works with PCs. If they can somehow combine those efforts, and finally deal with the Sega Master System 3D then I can throw out my CRT TV for good. (probably if a low ping monitor that can accurately deal with 480i and 240p in 1 ms.)

 

And yes, you’re right, if the Phoenix outputs in 1080p, then just simply converting the 1080p to 480i would ruin the whole point of 480i. If it would be 480i, yet it would be extremely high ping on a CRT TV, then that would not be the desired effect. I don’t love 480i for 480i’s sake. I love it because it’s low ping. I agree: only use the Composite adapter if you can guarantee it being a low ping avenue for gaming. Otherwise, what’s the point? I could buy an HDMI->Composite adapter and get the same effect.

[tripletopper]

Thank you Mr_me, As I said, the problem is avoidable if you have a sub 1 ms monitor. And Yes, if I’m going to buy a low ping TV for Xbox One Switch gaming, it’s nice that the Phoenix can use that monitor and be FOR HUMAN PURPOSES low ping. (not for light gun purposes.)

 

But then I got the issues of CRTs for light gun games. But that could be solved if the 2 experiment Neo-light gun enthusiasts decided to cooperate instead of compete. They each got a half of the whole solution. One solved getting old consoles to light gun interface with modern TVs, but using a Wii Mote. The other truly simulated light gun accuracy by taking a visible light picture and computing "the when" that retrogames use based on "the where", but only works on PC emulations.

 

Please combine!

 

And for 3D. I cannot find a combined Low ping + Shutter 3D monitor unless it involves a PC to do the 3D. My idea for an external 3D processor would restore balance to the 3D world. Instead of relying on a TV maker to include 3D, instead you do out and find the best 2D TV you want, and THEN add 3D. Not more complaining about size, ratio, refresh rate, display technology, ping time, any anything else AND limit yourself to 3D Built in.

 

There’s a reason why Dolby and DTS sound solutions are separate from the TVs they attach to instead of coming pre attached. If you bought a TV on combined vision and sound, and they came bundled, you’re going to have to make a sacrifice somewhere, whether its quality, features, price, or makes you choose between great sound and great picture, or something would turn you off to it. That’s why built-in 3D failed, because it either added expense people didn’t want, or people perceived a good 3D TV as a bad 2D TV, or more recently they only put it on the #1 top model, but enough Top Model purchasers hate 3D becuase they don’t want the effect.

 

What’s easier, polarizing a non-polarized TV, or adding an external shutter syncher? If you ever played Sega Scope 3D, which didn’t require a specific television or connection to get 3D, then you know the answer is Shutter. (unless someone can make a case that it’s better to add polarization to a screen that’s currently not polarized. I don’t see the answer, but if you got something better, try me.)

 

Is there any reason why the #1 selling single model 3D Blu Ray displaying Display was the Playstation 3D Display? It started as the cheapest($500), it ended as the cheapest ($180), it had 1080p 240 Hz, unusually good for a 24 inch screen, and the ping time was good in 2010, at 33 ms, the quickest available at the time? Sure, there were bugs like native 4x3 pictures not displaying right in HDMI but that’s why we kept a 4x3 CRT TV anyways. Name me a better, lower ping, preferably shutter based 3D model.

[Loafer]

I think all that info is cool and all but it’s not very relevant to the Phoenix