Tempest Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Would it be possible to hack a PBI port into an Atari 800? My gut feeling is no because it the motherboard doesn't have the right connections, but I'm not 100% sure (you can hack one onto a 1200XL afterall). Failing a PBI port, is it possible to do the Warp+ OS mod on the Atari 800? If it could get a few different OS's on my 800 like I have on my 1200XL then I could go back to using my 800 as my main game machine. I assume you can do a 256K memory mod on the 800 right? Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXG/MNX Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Would it be possible to hack a PBI port into an Atari 800? My gut feeling is no because it the motherboard doesn't have the right connections, but I'm not 100% sure (you can hack one onto a 1200XL afterall). Failing a PBI port, is it possible to do the Warp+ OS mod on the Atari 800? If it could get a few different OS's on my 800 like I have on my 1200XL then I could go back to using my 800 as my main game machine. I assume you can do a 256K memory mod on the 800 right? Tempest Hmm when adding 64Kb and an XL/XE OS I think a PBI could be done but it would be a hell of a job to do it I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 I'd settle for more memory and the OS mod. The PBI port would just be icing on the cake and the more I think about it probably not necessary for a gaming machine. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 Found this: http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/02/0110.php and this: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lak...6757/piamod.txt Looks like this may be possible afterall. Alot of work though. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkman Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 I was just wondering... why would you need 256k? Isn't 128k enough? I just so happens that I have a 128k Ram Cart fitted in my Atari 800. In addition to two other 16k Ram carts. You could just track down two of those 128k Ram Cart upgrades and your gold! heh, Assuming it would work. I also have a 32k Ram cart in another 800... Lets see, I could put a 16k, 32k, and 128k to have a total of 176k! (heh, ok just a little more). Why is upgrading the Atari 800 so much fun?! I tell you, I think the fate of the Atari 8 bit computer would have been much brighter if they did not discontinue the Atari 800 when they did. -darkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 I just so happens that I have a 128k Ram Cart fitted in my Atari 800. Really? I didn't know they made such a thing. I don't need 256K, but that was the only upgrade I could find. Since no games I know use anything more than 128K (the 130Xe's normal limit) I'd be happy with that. Now if I could only find an article that explains how to do the dual OS hack. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkman Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Honestly, I did not know they made such an upgrade either... I obtained it with a 800 I got for free! It also had a 32k cart in it... what's interesting about the 128k cart is it has a little switch on it in case you want to turn it off! I guess they put it there to antisipate compatability issues or something. I am not sure if it disables it all together, or makes the cart act as a 16k cart or what... question: so I understand no games really take advantage of an ram greater than 128k.... however what apps would take advantage of more ram? Would this be helpfull in copying disks perhaps? Elighten me.... That reminds me.... I should be getting my Happy Chip in the mail soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 Axlon made some kind of 128K upgrade for the 800, but I'm not sure exactly how it worked. I wonder if that's not what your cart is? question: so I understand no games really take advantage of an ram greater than 128k.... however what apps would take advantage of more ram? Would this be helpfull in copying disks perhaps? Elighten me.... AFAIK no games use more than 128K, but I could be wrong. I suppose you could use that extra memory for a Ramdisk or something. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 AFAIK no games use more than 128K, but I could be wrong. I suppose you could use that extra memory for a Ramdisk or something. Tempest I don't think any games used more than 64K. Only some of the utility software used 128K and that was later when the 130XE came out. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 Some games could take advantage of the extra RAM, but I don't know if there were any that specifically required it (maybe one or two). Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 If you rewire the OS board to accept a 27128 eprom then the XL/XE Warp+ OS upgrade will work fine. I've never done it myself so I dont what what implications running the XL OS on 800 hardware would have. I imagine anything that tried to use PORTB for XL stuff (self test, ram under OS, etc) would become confused. Self-test would be completely broken since there is no XL MMU in the 800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Some games could take advantage of the extra RAM, but I don't know if there were any that specifically required it (maybe one or two). Tempest Can you think of any in particular? Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 I can't think of any 128K only games off the top fo my head, but Bop n Wrestle used the extra ram if it was there to reduce disk access. I imagine anything that tried to use PORTB for XL stuff (self test, ram under OS, etc) would become confused. Self-test would be completely broken since there is no XL MMU in the 800. Hmm I never thought about the MMU. Darn it... Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 This is not quite on topic, but nearly, if you read between the lines Can an 800xl or 130XE motherboard talk to an 800 or 1200Xl keyboard?? sTeVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 All the keyboards are compatible in that they are just simple switch matrixes scanned using a counter and 2 4051s. The connectors are different though. The 800 keyboard could be adapted to the XL by re-wiring the connector. The 1200XL keyboard has the 4051 decoders on the keyboard PCB, so it woudl require more surgery, or require removing the 4051s from the XL and plugging the cable into those points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I don't think any software not specifically written for the Axlon 800 upgrade would work. You won't be able to play AR: Dungeon and make use of the extra memory on the 800 (does it even work on the 800 at all?) Has anyone replaced that big dumb RF cable coming out of the back of their 800 with a RCA jack, like on the XL/XE. I'm planning on doing that when I get around to it. My 800 just sits on the top of a shelf at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Yeah I thought Atari modified the OS so it would use up the extra signals on the PIA freed from removing two joystick ports, and a few other things. Sounds to me like it would be difficult to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 4, 2003 Author Share Posted July 4, 2003 Yeah I thought Atari modified the OS so it would use up the extra signals on the PIA freed from removing two joystick ports I found a mod that can fix that: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lak...6757/piamod.txt But I don't know how you'd get around the missing MMU. I bet it can be done, but it's well beyond my abilities. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 That mod only adds a second PIA to your 800, it will not make any ram upgrades compatible with the 130XE banking. You would have to significantly change your computer and OS to support 130XE port B ram banking. Perhaps you could create an upgrade that allows you to switch between 130XE port B mode, and 800 4 joystick port b mode (with a switch of OS too, I guess.) That would be a very cool upgrade for 800 folks, but it's probably easier to just buy a 130XE, but when has monkeying with 20 year old hardware ever been about things being "easy"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 8, 2004 Author Share Posted November 8, 2004 Just thought I'd bump this old post up to see if anyone has thought of anything in the last year. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted November 8, 2004 Share Posted November 8, 2004 That mod only adds a second PIA to your 800, it will not make any ram upgrades compatible with the 130XE banking. You would have to significantly change your computer and OS to support 130XE port B ram banking. I think I didn't actually look at the upgrade you posted, and assumed it was another "second PIA upgrade" that I've seen floating around. This upgrade says: "Turn the unit on it 800 mode, and make sure that all the joysticks ports work. Also check that SIO operation is correct. Flick the ROM select switch over to XE/XL mode, and see if the extended RAM works. [my emphasis] Check the SIO again. If they both work, then it's ok" also: "If you don't already have both an expanded memory modification and switchable OS's on your machine, then this information will be of no interest to you until you do." Anyone done it? I only have one 800 and I don't want to hack it up too badly, other than removing the RF cable (one day, one day!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Matt - It could be done, but it'll be a monumental task, ever since the first time I completely opened my 800 back in the 80's and saw the connector on the back of the main board and wondered if it would be possible to do something with it. It has most of the same signals as the PBI port on the XL's, you would need to modify some of the latches and other support semiconductors to get the timing right and fully bring out all of the PBI lines.... the OS board would need to be swapped out for a modified one to accept the XL/XE OS rom's. You'd be really hard pressed to get it fully functional.... Bob Wooley came up with a way to put PBI into a 1200XL and even that is quite a bit of work, the 800 would be 3-4 times that much work. As for the memory, sheeez, thats a story all its own, you need to put in the MMU and Feddie, which means rewiring the Bus slots and changing some substantial amounts of traces... That in itself will cripple and/or completely disable any further use of the expansion slots for anything other then some heavily modified ram boards... In the end you'd wind up with an 800 that will be a rats nest of jumpers and small adhoc addon boards and you'll lose its expansion slot capabilities... Leave the 800 as-is, don't try to change it into a beastie that is just can't become. Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanD Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I have some mods that I have not seen online before on my webpage also at http://aland.roarvgm.com They are listed under the 'Tech Stuff' link on the left. The 800 memory expansions are unfortunately incomplete but I'm trying to track down complete copies. There is a lot more mods than that there also. If anyone has any others they would like me to put up there that they created or have access to I'd be glad to do it. Thanks, AlanD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Well, I guess that AR - The dungeon works on Atari 800. It is only a guess, since I do not own an Atari 800, I have an 800XL with a) original 800XL Os and b) good old Atari 800 OS. When I load AR the Dungeon with the XL Os, it says something like "64k mode" and loads the game. When I switch to the 800 OS, the screen says something like "48k mode" and also loads the game... and if you happen to have a 128k machine (130XE or compatible) it will show "128k mode" and also load the game. The difference between the 64k and 128k mode is clear: in the 128k mode the main program is loaded into the extra RAM (or Ramdisk) and is always there after a disk-swap. Whereas in the 64k mode the main program has to be loaded from disk, meaning when you leave a shop (or something) you have to swap disks again, to load the main program from disk... Have not found out yet the difference between the 48k and 64k mode though... -Andreas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 I'm not as concerned about the PBI as I am about the memory. I just want the 800 to be able to play those XL/XE games (the ones that took 64K). Is there anyway to make the 800 do that or do they require the XL OS and the FREDDIE chip? Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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