christianscott Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 ok lets say there is a cartridge game made for the atari 800 (not the XE) and you wanted to port it to the atari 5200. how tricky is this, fairly simple or a 100's of hour project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 ok lets say there is a cartridge game made for the atari 800 (not the XE) and you wanted to port it to the atari 5200. how tricky is this, fairly simple or a 100's of hour project? I guess this is the theme of the day. http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.p...ghlight=#364949 Look at the last couple of responses. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 And here's a thread for the fun of it on the same topic. http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14049 Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christianscott Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 well look at that! its the friggin controller causing problems yet again! makes sense though. my post came from another idea i'm kicking around, the other threads were unbeknownst to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 ok lets say there is a cartridge game made for the atari 800 (not the XE) and you wanted to port it to the atari 5200. how tricky is this, fairly simple or a 100's of hour project? Someone would have done it already if it were easy. Think of all the Computer games that are 400/800 only. Nobody is converting those to the XL/XE operating system and there are far less differences in 800 OS vs XL/XE OS than the Computer vs 5200. The other reason is that it is really a waste of time. Why spend hundreds of hours to get the same game to run on essentially the same hardware? Just get a computer and play 100 times more games than 5200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 ok lets say there is a cartridge game made for the atari 800 (not the XE) and you wanted to port it to the atari 5200. how tricky is this, fairly simple or a 100's of hour project? Someone would have done it already if it were easy. Think of all the Computer games that are 400/800 only. Nobody is converting those to the XL/XE operating system and there are far less differences in 800 OS vs XL/XE OS than the Computer vs 5200. The other reason is that it is really a waste of time. Why spend hundreds of hours to get the same game to run on essentially the same hardware? Just get a computer and play 100 times more games than 5200. I agree with your first part, that it's hard, but not with your last part. I would love to play Atari 8-bit games on my 5200. Yea, I could play them on my 8-bits but it's all for the fun of it. I also actually like the 5200 controller (gasp!!) because you don't have to push on the stick so hard. My hands get cramped really fast using 2600/8-bit/7800 joysticks. Remember, it's all a waste of time but that's what playing games is all about, from the 2600 all the way to the PS2/X-box/Gamecube. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 ok lets say there is a cartridge game made for the atari 800 (not the XE) and you wanted to port it to the atari 5200. how tricky is this, fairly simple or a 100's of hour project? Take a look at the converting 8 bit games to atari 5200 ? thread to my response on that. You may see a 5200 homebrew ported to the A8 soon Someone would have done it already if it were easy. Actually it's not that hard to do. It can be tricky if you're disassembling the A8 program too but if you have the original source it should be trivial. I would guess that you don't see it happening because no one is interested in doing it. There was/is a conversion of Crystal Castles going on but we've not heard about progress in a while. I'd love to see this conversion finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Yea, I could play them on my 8-bits but it's all for the fun of it. I also actually like the 5200 controller (gasp!!) Ahh, so you're the one. C'mon Allan! There is about a thousand different 9-pin joysticks made. One of them must suit you ergonomically. Remember, it's all a waste of time but that's what playing games is all about, from the 2600 all the way to the PS2/X-box/Gamecube. Allan We are talking about programming, not playing the game. Its no fun re-programming some 16k Atari 400 game to run on another Atari 400 (the 5200) where it will look and play exactly the same. There is no satisfaction for the programmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 if you have the original source it should be trivial. Sure, but thats a big "if" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 To simply port Atari 8bit DK to a 16K 5200 cart is unappealing to me. Sure , I'd snap one up if someone did it, but I just can't bring myself to sit down and investigate it further. This DK to 5200 port idea has been discussed at length. I'm not sure but at this point in time it seems easier to port a 16K game to 5200 than to port a 5200 game to the 8bit. Reasons being: 5200 has more Zero Page variables open for programmer use, so if the game in question uses them, you have to move these variables to other memory pages. This may not be a problem ... but it could cause all sorts of timing issues. You would never know until you did it! Also, I believe the 8bit can't support a 32K cart without bank switching. So a 5200-to-8bit port would work best as a disk-based .ATR file. If we could get around the conversion from a 32K ROM to 2 16K bank-switched ROMS, but as of now it's an unknown. Personally I'm learning more and more about it, and in time the porting between systems might become more and more trivial and easier. But that 'first time' has many unknowns. I think if anbody does port DK, they could the full 32K ROM to add even more to it. After all, DK is only 16K (right?!), an amazing feat given the intro & music and all 4 stages are there, when these were not all there in 7800 and NES versions!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Yea, I could play them on my 8-bits but it's all for the fun of it. I also actually like the 5200 controller (gasp!!) Ahh, so you're the one. C'mon Allan! There is about a thousand different 9-pin joysticks made. One of them must suit you ergonomically. Remember, it's all a waste of time but that's what playing games is all about, from the 2600 all the way to the PS2/X-box/Gamecube. Allan We are talking about programming, not playing the game. Its no fun re-programming some 16k Atari 400 game to run on another Atari 400 (the 5200) where it will look and play exactly the same. There is no satisfaction for the programmer. I just enjoy the whole experience of the 5200. It's nastalgia and the 'What If' factor. I've never used a 9-pin joystick that moved as easily as the 5200. If you know of one, please let me know. I also think the 5200 joystick is cool looking but that's another subject. Well, that's true about the programming aspect but then again it really boils down to the satisfaction of being able to do it. I do A LOT of converting Atari literature to HTML form for www.atarimagazines.com and www.atariarchives.org with almost no reward other than knowing others might enjoy it. The actuall process is boring but I do it anyways and also because very few others are willing to contribute because there's not a lot of fanfare. Kevin Savetz gets all the attention from it because it's his site. Luckily Kevin is very apprietive to anyone who helps. (a little promotion there! ) In fact I'm working on 'The Creative Atari' by David Small right now. It's guess it's all point of view and what you really enjoy. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christianscott Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 redundent thread or not this topic has legs... lets frame it another way, more in line with what i had in mind when i posted it: say you came across some unreleased arcade titles for the 800 and you wanted to release them as homebrew, wouldnt you suspect that more people would enjoy a 5200 version rather than a 8 bit? would that alone be worth the trouble, i dunno but it just seems like more fun to play it on a 5200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Personally I'm learning more and more about it, and in time the porting between systems might become more and more trivial and easier. But that 'first time' has many unknowns. I think if anbody does port DK, they could the full 32K ROM to add even more to it. After all, DK is only 16K (right?!), an amazing feat given the intro & music and all 4 stages are there, when these were not all there in 7800 and NES versions!!! Sounds like you're well on your way Cafeman Just remember as an incentive you could have my ballsack coming your way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I still don't understand you console guys and the "fun" thing. Somehow the sight of keyboard in front of you spoils the whole thing? Okay, then, heres my suggestion to "port" every 8-bit in one fell swoop: 1) remove the motherboard from a 5200. 2) bolt an 800XL motherboard inside the case. 3) modify case for the openings and essential buttons 4) tell friends its an Atari prototype 5) play any game you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I do A LOT of converting Atari literature to HTML form for www.atarimagazines.com and www.atariarchives.org with almost no reward other than knowing others might enjoy it. The actuall process is boring but I do it anyways and also because very few others are willing to contribute because there's not a lot of fanfare. Kevin Savetz gets all the attention from it because it's his site. Luckily Kevin is very apprietive to anyone who helps. (a little promotion there! ) In fact I'm working on 'The Creative Atari' by David Small right now. ==> Ah, so you are involved with those excellent resources? I constantly referred (and still do) to the wealth of Atari 8bit info there, of course I use it for 5200 programming but it's 99% the same thing. You and Mr. Savetz and any others have my thanks along with a polite golf applause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Allan, count me as another person who IMMENSELY appreciates those sites. Any efforts by anyone to put up classic gaming/computer literature & magazines online is 100% appreciated and I personally love reading them I still don't understand you console guys and the "fun" thing. Somehow the sight of keyboard in front of you spoils the whole thing? Okay, then, heres my suggestion to "port" every 8-bit in one fell swoop: 1) remove the motherboard from a 5200. 2) bolt an 800XL motherboard inside the case. 3) modify case for the openings and essential buttons 4) tell friends its an Atari prototype 5) play any game you like I think your missing the point Callipygous Yeah of course you could do that.. or of course you could just play them on a 400/800 or heck even an emulator. But none of those is on a 5200 with a crappy 5200 stick controller. And YES, that is the whole point The fact is, a lot of folks here DO have a 5200 and at least one 8-bit with a couple of disks and carts. But it's a "just because" thing to be able to play something like a DK cart (with a nicely made label) on a 5200. It's all just for fun.. so why the heck not? It's just leisure hobby stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 redundent thread or not this topic has legs... lets frame it another way, more in line with what i had in mind when i posted it: say you came across some unreleased arcade titles for the 800 and you wanted to release them as homebrew, wouldnt you suspect that more people would enjoy a 5200 version rather than a 8 bit? would that alone be worth the trouble, i dunno but it just seems like more fun to play it on a 5200. More people? I don't know that there are more 5200 collectors than 8-bit users. However, I do think that 5200 owners are more likely to buy a copy for their collection. I don't think the 5200 is more 'fun' than the computer (how could it be?), it's just a collector thing. If you have source code, then you simply need to track down the things that are different (inputs, hardware locations) and rewrite those. The 32K cartridge size is nice, since I'm up against the 16K limit on an 8-bit project. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 so why the heck not? It's just leisure hobby stuff This is the point I am missing Thats because its not a point! At the risk of repeating myself, this is not an attractive project for a programmer. Thats is the point you are missing and thats why its hard to get someone to do it. Why don't you do it ? Its fun, its nostaglia , why the heck not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 This is the point I am missing Thats because its not a point! At the risk of repeating myself, this is not an attractive project for a programmer. Thats is the point you are missing and thats why its hard to get someone to do it. Why don't you do it ? Its fun, its nostaglia , why the heck not Easy.. because I don't know how to! Heck if I could I'd do it just for kicks in a heartbeat... It aint nothing but a non-issue really. It doesn't need to be an "attractive project". I mean what justificiation did Thomas need to pick up the speed in Kaboom! or the Asteroid trajectories in 2600 Asteroids. Or what justification did I have to hack out 2600 Vector Asteroids or Arcade Space Invaders.. Nothing really.. it's nothing but a thang! Why the heck not? 'Course the whole "put it in a cart with a nice label" is a whole other story alltogether and something I probably wouldn't lean towards (too much work!). A rom would be enough for my purposes should I ever do it myself ..maybe sometime in the next 10 years or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Easy.. because I don't know how to! Exactly and you don't how to because its not easy. So don't expect someone else to sweat over a conversion. It may happen, but don't expect it. Heck if I could I'd do it just for kicks in a heartbeat... Right, sure Thats why so many have been done so far. It aint nothing but a non-issue really. What is? It doesn't need to be an "attractive project". Of course it does. I mean what justificiation did Thomas need to pick up the speed in Kaboom! or the Asteroid trajectories in 2600 Asteroids. Or what justification did I have to hack out 2600 Vector Asteroids or Arcade Space Invaders.. Nothing really.. it's nothing but a thang! Why the heck not? Because they were attractive projects - enhancing a game or at least learning some techniques. You got some gratification out of your hacks, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Exactly and you don't how to because its not easy. So don't expect someone else to sweat over a conversion. It may happen' date=' but don't expect it. [/quote'] Since when did I say I expected anyone to actually do it? Where you got the idea I was demanding (let alone even expecting) someone to port it I have no idea. I merely said it would kick ass! But anyone who knows me knows I'm the LAST one to sweat anyone over it.. I mean come on, gimme a break! Maybe your mistaking me for some rom-begging kid rather than the crusty 34 year old jaded guy I am, but heck it's been 20+ years.. Even if it doesn't happen until 2023 that's fine by me! I'd still think it was nifty Heck if I could I'd do it just for kicks in a heartbeat... Right' date=' sure Thats why so many have been done so far.[/quote'] Huh? What's the big deal? Matter o' fact I'll say it again: If I knew how to do it, I could see myself doing it just for kicks. Why not? Is me saying this even an 'arguing' point? No it isn't It doesn't need to be an "attractive project". Of course it does. I mean what justificiation did Thomas need to pick up the speed in Kaboom! or the Asteroid trajectories in 2600 Asteroids. Or what justification did I have to hack out 2600 Vector Asteroids or Arcade Space Invaders.. Nothing really.. it's nothing but a thang! Why the heck not? Because they were attractive projects - enhancing a game or at least learning some techniques. You got some gratification out of your hacks' date=' right?[/quote'] Sure I guess Again, it's not even a big deal. The whole point is I think (and still do) that it would be a cool little deal to port some particular 8-bit games to the 5200 for the heck of it. It's not an AWESOME or even a particulary noteworthy project by any long shot, because like you said, we all know playing them on the 8-bits is pretty much the same deal. But count me in as still one of the members of the 'sure, why not' camp instead of the 'forget about it because it's pointless' group. Anyway, the point is moot because at the rate things are going, I'm sure it'll happen by hook or by crook eventually.. I mean someones BOUND to do it by 2023 dont ya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callipygous Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Since when did I say I expected anyone to actually do it? Right here in the thread: Sounds like you're well on your way Cafeman Just remember as an incentive you could have my ballsack coming your way! It's not an AWESOME or even a particulary noteworthy project by any long shot, because like you said, we all know playing them on the 8-bits is pretty much the same deal. Exactly. I think you understand it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 reminds me "GLENN THE 5200 Man" without him i would not had played centipede5200 'til near death... and 8bit computers would not had a nice nearly perfect centipede arcade port... hve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christianscott Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 heres a somewhat related article, what the heck its news to me... http://home1.gte.net/leiterja/atari.html "While working there I built a really cool reverse assembler (disassembler) for myself. It was a two pass and was given the symbolic table for a 2600 as well as a 800 and 5200. With it I was able to automatically rip game cartridges back into labeled source code. I’d then go through it and clean up the data areas. I used it to rip the 5200 Kangaroo cartridge, and port the game over to the Atari 800 in a day. Since Atari had no plans to sell an 800 version of the game I sent it over to the APX program they got approval and put it in their catalog as a disk based game. Some time after that the Atari-Computer group came out with the same game. You can tell the difference between the two versions because on mine, I corrected for the color burst differential so my strawberries are red, not purple colored like theirs. Just to clarify. I did NOT write the 5200 versions of these programs! I merely ripped them into source code and ported to the 800 platform for projects being worked on within Atari. The credit is mostly to the tool I wrote and to the original programmers of these three games. The images above are of the post rips! Another 5200 game that was ripped and ported for the good of the company was QIX but there was a bug that I never had the time to solve and so it wasn’t published. And lastly the third game was an 800 Cartridge version of Pole Position needed for Project Puffer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I also actually like the 5200 controller (gasp!!) I KNEW I wasn't the only one! Remember, it's all a waste of time but that's what playing games is all about, from the 2600 all the way to the PS2/X-box/Gamecube. It's amazing how many people forget that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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