RetroGamer2003 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 HEY!!! I've been coming here for years, but, I decided to sign up for the forums!!! Anyway, my 800XLs keyboard is kinda messed, so I have decided to get a new Atari Computer!! So, where should I get one? I was thinking either myatari.com, or atarisales.com, and other sites? I was thinking either a 600XL, because no one likes them, and I thought I might give it a chance. Or, I was thinking of getting the 800, because it's just kinda cool. Okay, now, I have some Q's: -Is 48k sufficient enough to run the majority of good games and programs? -Can games on tape run without basic? I heard you just have to press START at startup and then it will just load, or is basic just for SAVING things onto tapes? -Are tape decks bad to get? -Can ordinary audioa cassettes be used for saving things to? -What joystick should I get? Standard? 7800 joypad? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 HEY!!! I've been coming here for years' date=' but, I decided to sign up for the forums!!! Anyway, my 800XLs keyboard is kinda messed, so I have decided to get a new Atari Computer!! So, where should I get one? I was thinking either myatari.com, or atarisales.com, and other sites? I was thinking either a 600XL, because no one likes them, and I thought I might give it a chance. Or, I was thinking of getting the 800, because it's just kinda cool. Okay, now, I have some Q's: -Is 48k sufficient enough to run the majority of good games and programs? -Can games on tape run without basic? I heard you just have to press START at startup and then it will just load, or is basic just for SAVING things onto tapes? -Are tape decks bad to get? -Can ordinary audioa cassettes be used for saving things to? -What joystick should I get? Standard? 7800 joypad? Thanks in advance![/quote'] An Atari 600XL only has 16K, so I'd rule that out. Get another 800XL or 130XE. For your questions: 1) 48/64k is fine for practically everything. Very little required the 128k of the 130XE, and most of those were apps. 2) Hitting START will start a cassette load, but it does not disable BASIC. You have to hold START+OPTION to do that. Games that require BASIC disabled are typically ones that need the memory BASIC takes up in order to run. 3) Um ... tape decks are slow. Painfully slow. We're talking 10 minutes to load the average game. Get a 1050 disk drive and save yourself some headache. 4) If you are absolutely bent on getting a tape deck, you can use standard audio cassettes, but the general rule of thumb is that the longer the tape, the thinner the mylar, the shorter the lifespan of the data on them. When saving data to cassettes, shorter = better. I used to buy 10-minute cassettes designed for data back in the day. 'Course, you can't get those these days... 5) Epyx 500XJ, baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I'd say go for an 800xl. The keyboard is good, the video is OK (especially via the monitor port), and you can get them for next to nothing on eBay (and elsewhere). I agree with Mindfield about the tape question. It's useful to have a cassette deck, but only to transfer programs to disk. A 1050 or 551 drive can be bought very cheaply on eBay in the US. If you want to save your own programs, then don't even think about tape. 48k will run the vast majority of cart/disk/tape games. 64k will run a few more, but IMHO is not worth spending any more. 128k is useful if you're a hardcore 6502 programmer, but the 130xe keyboards are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 The 800XL has a 256k (and higher) memory upgrades...though AFAIK the bankswitching used differs from the 130XE. Either way, it would be fine if you are planning to do your own stuff with it, and have a better keyboard. If you can get by with 48k Ram (which is the most that the majority of commercial software is designed for), I'd suggest the original 800 model. Has a great keyboard, 4 controller ports, and built to outlast YOUR grandchildren. And you won't have to mess around with the function keys or a translator disk. An SIO2PC is also a worthy purchase...you won't even need a disk drive to access the vast Atari library of programs on your computer of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 Well, the 800 is looking more appealing, but I heard that a lot of them have broken keys or something. Do you think the stores I mentioned would sell these kind of units? Oh, and I really don't mind waiting for something to load, as long as it will load. I think the reason why I like the cassette drive so much is because to me it is very unusual and I find it unique and cool. If the 410 has flaws or something, would the 1010 be a better choice? Will the 1010 even work on an 800? Also, I was asking before if the BASIC cart was neccessary for tape games. Like, could I just hook up a 410/1010 via the serial port, rewind the tape, hold start and turn on the system without the BASIC cart in it? Thanks again guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 The 800XL has a 256k (and higher) memory upgrades...though AFAIK the bankswitching used differs from the 130XE. Either way' date=' it would be fine if you are planning to do your own stuff with it, and have a better keyboard. If you can get by with 48k Ram (which is the most that the majority of commercial software is designed for), I'd suggest the original 800 model. Has a great keyboard, 4 controller ports, and built to outlast YOUR grandchildren. And you won't have to mess around with the function keys or a translator disk. An SIO2PC is also a worthy purchase...you won't even need a disk drive to access the vast Atari library of programs on your computer of choice.[/quote'] You won't have a GTIA, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Well' date=' the 800 is looking more appealing, but I heard that a lot of them have broken keys or something. Do you think the stores I mentioned would sell these kind of units? Oh, and I really don't mind waiting for something to load, as long as it will load. I think the reason why I like the cassette drive so much is because to me it is very unusual and I find it unique and cool. If the 410 has flaws or something, would the 1010 be a better choice? Will the 1010 even work on an 800? Also, I was asking before if the BASIC cart was neccessary for tape games. Like, could I just hook up a 410/1010 via the serial port, rewind the tape, hold start and turn on the system without the BASIC cart in it? Thanks again guys![/quote'] The BASIC cartrige is only necessary for the Atari 400, as it had no internal BASIC and two cartrige ports (the right port designed specifically for BASIC or other language/OS carts) The 800 and onward had BASIC internally (thus eliminating the need for the second cartrige port) so unless you're planning to get a 400 (and really, only someone who really likes membrane keyboards would) then I wouldn't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 Hmm, are you sure about it? I thought the built-in basic was first built into the 600XL, not the 800... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 The BASIC cartrige is only necessary for the Atari 400' date=' as it had no internal BASIC and two cartrige ports (the right port designed specifically for BASIC or other language/OS carts) The 800 and onward had BASIC internally (thus eliminating the need for the second cartrige port) so unless you're planning to get a 400 (and really, only someone who really likes membrane keyboards would) then I wouldn't worry about it.[/quote'] The 400 had no built-in BASIC and one cartridge port. The 800 had no built-in BASIC, but 2 cartridge ports. The 1200xl didn't have built-in BASIC, and had 1 cart port, on the side. 600xl and 800xl had built-in BASIC and 1 cart port, on top. The xe models had BASIC, but strangely positioned cart ports. If you want to use BASIC programs, you'd need a BASIC cart for 400, 800 and 1200xl. But a BASIC cart would cost buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 All I want to know is if I can use a 410/1010 with a 800 without a BASIC cart to play tape games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathtrappomegranate Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 All I want to know is if I can use a 410/1010 with a 800 without a BASIC cart to play tape games Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 13, 2003 Author Share Posted September 13, 2003 Also, if I just wanted to go out to the store and get a blank audio cassette, do you think it would be suitable to record onto. BTW, how DO you save things? I don't mean programs, I just mean like things with the wordpad (if possible). Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I think you are referring to "memo pad" mode. Nope, you can't do anything with that. As a matter of fact, unless you hold down the start key when you power up (to signal that a m/l cassette program is to be loaded), you won't be able to do anything there besides type junk on the screen. With no way to call the OS routines...you won't even be able to save the message you type. A Basic cartridge (if present) would take over and give you a "ready" prompt, allowing you to load/save Basic programs to cassette. If you have a disk drive powered up when you start the system, the OS will boot it. The 800XL has a 256k (and higher) memory upgrades...though AFAIK the bankswitching used differs from the 130XE. Either way' date=' it would be fine if you are planning to do your own stuff with it' date=' and have a better keyboard. If you can get by with 48k Ram (which is the most that the majority of commercial software is designed for), I'd suggest the original 800 model. Has a great keyboard, 4 controller ports, and built to outlast YOUR grandchildren. And you won't have to mess around with the function keys or a translator disk. An SIO2PC is also a worthy purchase...you won't even need a disk drive to access the vast Atari library of programs on your computer of choice.[/quote''] You won't have a GTIA, either. Mine does. CTIA was phased out waaay back in '80 IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 so, is there anyway how I can save documents? and load them later? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 re: how DO you save it? 800 computer without a Basic cartridge or DOS loaded from disk: No way...memo pad is simply that. 800 computer with Basic inserted and a cassette drive: CSAVE stores a "tokenized" Basic program in memory to the cassette, you will be instructed to press Record and the system will wait until the Return key is pressed CLOAD reads back a "tokenized" Basic program from the cassette, you will be instructed to press Play and the system will wait for the Return key LIST"C:" will store a Basic program in memory as plain text...just as if you had LISTed it to the screen ENTER"C:" will read back a LISTed Basic program to memory The bottom two commands are a bit slower than the top two, but have a couple advantages over the standard loading and saving. The first is that if the cassette fails during playback, at least SOME of the program would have been loaded (allowing you to possibly salvage the program). A failure during CLOAD will leave you with nothing. Also, you can append lines of code to a program currently in memory (CLOAD will wipe out any existing program in memory before the cassette is read). 800 computer with DOS 2.x booted: Use the load/save routines from the DOS menu to access programs written in machine language 800 computer with Basic and DOS 2.x booted: SAVE"D:filename.ext" writes a "tokenized" Basic program to the disk in drive 1 LOAD"D:filename.ext" reads a "tokenized" Basic program back from the disk in drive 1. If you substitute RUN instead of LOAD, it will be executed immediately after completing LIST"D:filename.ext" and ENTER"D:filename.ext" function just as they do for the cassette descriptions above (except that the text is passed to the disk drive of course). Again, a disk failure partway through an ENTER command will at least yield part of the program...though disk failures are much more rare than cassette failures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 Like is there a way how I can write a document, and save it to cassette and load it later? Or save over other things in this kind of fasion? What about that Atari Writer cart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Yes, other programs (including Atari Writer) will allow you to save documents. The point I was referring to is that the "memo pad" mode has no way of doing this on it's own (no program is running to "understand" and pass the instruction to the device). Some game cartridges (like the excellent Eastern Front 1941) also allow you to save your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I forgot to mention another great use of the LIST command...but since you brought up word processing... You can LIST a Basic program to the cassette or disk drive and use your favorite word processor to edit it on (or even create one from scratch). This allows you to quickly replace blocks of the program, renumber it, change variable names in all lines that they occur, etc. Then, ENTER it back from Basic when you want to run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Mine does. CTIA was phased out waaay back in '80 IIRC Yeah, only very early 400/800's had CTIA. I've only seen one CTIA machine. I bought some old Atari stuff from a county auction (they were from schools) and one of the 800's had a CTIA. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I once owned a 400 computer with CTIA back in '80. Bought it new. Sucker put a serious dent in my cash flow Never seen a CTIA machine since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 THANKS SO MUCH GUYS, I REALLY GOT A LOT OF INFO!! Okay, to last questions for tonight, does the 1010 work with the 800, and are 60 minute audio cassettes okay to use? Or should they be mae especially for data? (I am suggesting 60 min, because If I DO get an 800 it will have 48k) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 "Most" Atari devices are backwards-compatable. The 1010 is compatable with the 800. Though after a day or so, you might want to get a disk drive instead...even if it means hawking some of your stuff or turning tricks j/k And as Mindfield stated, any cassette tape will work with it...but the longer the tape is, the shorter lifespan it will have. In a pinch, you can reuse cassettes that you no longer care about (but that is just adding risk to losing your data). Go for a disk drive and/or a SIO2PC instead. In the days when disk drives cost nearly as much as the computer itself (and the cost of both could have net you a house), tape drives might have been a good idea. Now they are just an excercise for your patience (and sanity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A2600 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I have all 3 steps of progressing machines (800,600XL,130XE) and I will tell you that I have more fun with the 800 than any other!! Hey I have a question myself: Can I switch the 600XL Keyboard in the place of the 130XE keyboard? That XE keyboard is driving me nuts! Thanks! JIC: **I dont mean take out key by key, I mean the whole keyboard** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroGamer2003 Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 ooo, this thread is getting pretty big. I just want to confirm some things. Are you guys sure that the 1010 will work with the 800? Also, I was thinking of getting either a light pen, or touch tablet, what opinions do you guys have about these peripherals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Yes. Any tape drive (410/1010/XC11/XC12) will work with any Atari 8-bit. A light pen or touch tablet is fun to doodle with, but there's very little software for them. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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