Heaven/TQA Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 ... that there is a project going on in poland to port International Karate plus for Atari 8bit!!! http://uce.pl/ikplus/ unfortunatly the conversion is not ready but i hope they will manage to do so... damned the english pages are not online...yet... (when will my polish friend learn that polish language is not a "world language" ) hve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 17, 2002 Author Share Posted February 17, 2002 and better when downloading the text files for the project where the guys seem to protocoll all their work i can not understand anything except the 6502 code... damned... maybe some of you can translate it? hve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 I don't know about the rest of the world, but we Atarians here in the states have International Karate on our 8-bits...it's called World Karate Championship here...So, if this is a different game, what's different? The graphics look the same to me. The music on the Atari WKC also sounds FAR, FAR better than that "stuff" that you can play at the site (is that the C64? blah!). Well, first I think I need it established as to wether this is indeed a sequal to International Karate, or just that those guys don't know that World Karate Championship already exists and are porting what has already been ported... [ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: Gunstar ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 18, 2002 Share Posted February 18, 2002 er... Gunstar - International Karate or World Karate Championship is the original game - IK+ is the sequel... And it is LOADS better - still by Archer Maclean, but with 3 fighters, and teh combat is great fun! It also has more intermission games, great background animations and best of all you could make your opponent lose his trousers!! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 18, 2002 Author Share Posted February 18, 2002 exactly StEvE... international karate was published in the states by Epyx as far as i can remember. it had another title screen compared to the System3 one... here in germany the retail version was a hybrid Disk. side a the c64 version, side b atari xl version. but it is interesting that the atari 8bit version is better than the c64... inmho archer mclean pushed XL to the limits: 1) big sprites in 60 FPS (knowing Atari has just 4 PM compared to c64) 2) rob hubbard music - one of the best at that time... 3) background pictures with lots of DLIs... 4) digitized speech without switching of the screen so... nice done... why has acher mc lean just released 2 games on atari? (dropzone, international karate) he seems to love the machine...and knows it very well... IK+ the sequel was never released. so i am looking forward for the conversion. it is no hack inmho. it is a real & full converison because the gameplay is completly different... maybe i should check the GBA version of it... StEvE, we should convert & publish all our 8bit faves on GBA... ;=) heaven - international karate fanatic... ps if the gameplay of international karate is too slow...press keys 1-4 to speed it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 Sounds GREAT! I just wanted to clear that up. Because the screenshot looked like one of the higher levels of the original and the music that I played on the site was not nearly as good as the Atari original, so I thought it might have been badly done on the C64's SID chip, or it was a ZX spectrum or the ST (ST sound chip sucks compared to the 8-bit pokey in my opinion,...isn't it the same chip that's used in the TI 99/4A?). Please don't tell me the music I heard was the POKEY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 IK+ was released on the Atari ST by System 3, and it was really quite good. Same big sprites, same good music, and the graphics were even quite colourful and detailed on the ST version -- tons of incidental background animations. The animation of the players, too, was quite fluid. An 8-bit version would be interesting... I doubt it could be done flawlessly -- all that extra animation 'n stuff, but I think they could do a very respectable port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 19, 2002 Author Share Posted February 19, 2002 ??? mixed it up? the atari ST was a port from the c64 original game... so...the c64 version was 1st... btw. don't let the c64 people let hear that you say pokey sounds better than c64 sid. c64 sid is milestones ahead from pokey... sorry to admit that... papa, hve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+rdemming Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Gunstar: the music that I played on the site was not nearly as good as the Atari original The music played directly from the site is a short sampled piece of the original SID. Download the .sid file instead and play it in SidPlay. It sounds much better that way. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Heaven/TQA: ??? mixed it up? the atari ST was a port from the c64 original game... so...the c64 version was 1st... btw. don't let the c64 people let hear that you say pokey sounds better than c64 sid. c64 sid is milestones ahead from pokey... sorry to admit that... papa, hve No need to say sorry, I know the SID chip is a better audio chip than the POKEY. But, if it's not used well or to it's full potential, and the POKEY is used well, the POKEY can sound better. I have both a 130XE and a C64. I've been able to do a lot of side-by-side comparisons between the two machines as the majority of the games I have on both machines are alike (I've got a lot of software for both). The truth of the matter is that I've always heard from "people" that the C64 had the edge over the 800XLXE. Many reviews of Atari games in the magazines often refered to the game as being a "thrown together" port of the commodore version (turns out, sometimes they were better versions). I was actually very suprised to see just how well the Atari has held it's own against the Commodore and often exceeding in areas and vice-versa. I've heard and seen games on both systems that have a better version on many games. One example is Donkey Kong, the commodore version is better, the Atari version is even missing a floor on the fisrt level! However, Defender on the Atari is the superior, it has more animations. Just last night I was comparing Blue Max 2001 on both systems and the Atari version was hands down the better of the two. It seems to come down too which was the original and which the port in many cases. I'm assuming the Atari version of BM2k1 was the original in this case. It has 5 background colors to the commodores 4, this alone allows the craters on the ground to be more defined and look better. But the Atari version also has a ton of more animation in the background where the C64 has only a couple of blinking things. However, the Commodore's sprites are using one more color too the Atari's(3-2), so they look better. Animation on the sprites is the same. The Music on both is excellent, the SID chip sounds a bit smoother, but the Pokey makes use of it's extra voice. One thing that really shows when comparing graphics is that 90% of the time, the C64 screens are limited to a square window within the TV's screen, and the Atari's is a rectangle. They have the same number of pixels within these windows (I've done pixel-by-pixel comparisons), but the Atari's graphics look shorter and wider, while the Commodore's look taller and narrower. I could see a Commodore person being turned off by the "squat" graphics on the Atari, but I'm used to them and think the Commodore's graphics look to tall and skinny, like watching a "CINAMASCOPE" movie squished onto the TV screen. I prefer the Atari's "widescreen" format over the Commodore's square format. But as far as I'm concerned, OVERALL, they are equals. They both blow away the Apple II line though... [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: Gunstar ] [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: Gunstar ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 SID, to me, is optimized for music, and POKEY is optimized for sound effects. So it depends on what's more important to you in game sounds. I think the POKEY chip's rumbles and explosions are more convincing than the SID chip's sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 i was told many times and for many years how superior the c64 is against atari (sorry...i dont wanted to start a c64 against 8bit atari war again... but why not... ) and finally with ccs64 i got most of the games / demos from the net and watched them& heard the sound... and? the sid was not so much better then everyone told me. same with the gfx... BUT (now comes my EA' theory...presentation of a game is all not the technique... ) 1) 4 8x256x1 sprites with 2x256x1 missles are far less eye appealling than the c64 4 color big sprites... (8x) 2) 160x192x4 is far less nice than 160x200x16 3) pokey music vs. SID 4) 128 charactes for charmode compared to 512 and so on... so... what i want to say is that when a game was developed on c64 it is really hard to port it. i think multiplatform strategy was not the key at that time... so most gamers who watched on one version to another said the c64 has better gfx & sound... (you have just few seconds to catch the players interest...in a way whatever... (oops... i should write on gamasutra.com ) vice verser the same... f.e. (imho c64 version better) ghostbusters mail order monsters wizard of war beach head, beach head 2 summer games ... (atari version better) international karate dropzone rescue on fractalus ballblazer koronis rift bounty bob strikes back rainbow walker ... and many more which i do not remember right now... hve, atari fanatic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Gunstar... Sorry, sorry, just hold up there C64 Donkey Kong better than the 800 version - ARE YOU MAD?!?! All the C64 versions SUCK (Atari and Ocean) - they play awfully, the sounds are horrid. The animation pathetic, the feel is all wrong - Donkey Kong on the 800 is (apart from the NES version) the best 8bit DK there is - way better than the CV version!!! sTeVE, sorry RANT over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jet Boot Jack: Gunstar... Sorry, sorry, just hold up there C64 Donkey Kong better than the 800 version - ARE YOU MAD?!?! All the C64 versions SUCK (Atari and Ocean) - they play awfully, the sounds are horrid. The animation pathetic, the feel is all wrong - Donkey Kong on the 800 is (apart from the NES version) the best 8bit DK there is - way better than the CV version!!! sTeVE, sorry RANT over! Well, for one thing, I'm not talking about game play, I'm strictly comparing how the graphics look and how the sounds sound. I did mention the use of MORE animation in one version than in another in a couple of the games I compared above, but I wasn't comparing the quality or "smoothness" of the animations either...The C64 version of Donkey kong uses larger sprites, at least on kong himself, it has ALL the floors in the levels where the Atari is missing one(s). and it has all the intermission and beginning animations, the Atari version does not, and what it does have isn't at the beginning, it just goes to it when the program is sitting. I've always been perfectly happy with my 800 version of Donkey Kong, but the C64 version more closely resembles the original arcade version. This, I think is true of the 7800 version of DK too, although the sound really sucks. But I know there are some adamant people about the 800 version being the best OVER ALL, and I don't disagree. On another note, I compared both versions of NINJA, by Virgin-Mastertronic last night. The music is much better on the C64, of course, but the Atari actually has the edge in the graphic "look" with the use of DLI's for more color. Animation is identical as well as the look of the sprites. But, Boy! Do they sound good together if you synconize the start of the games. 7 voices of oriental musical joy! Same with EA's Racing Destruction Set...the music sounds SLIGHTLY better on the C64 version, but when you syncronize the music between them it sounds superb! Well, I've ramble enough again for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Gunstar, Donkey Kong on the 8 bit supports all four levels, Girders, Rivets, Elevators, and Conveyor Belts. Level one - Girders and Rivets Level Two - Girders, Elevators and Rivets Level Three - Girders, Conveyor Belts, Elevators and Rivets The game then continues, inserting Girder levels between the other levels. This is the same play as some versions of the coin op, other versions play all four rounds from the get go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmi Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 wasnt there a game called Crazy Kong in the arcades? that had a pie level (thats what i call it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jet Boot Jack: Gunstar, Donkey Kong on the 8 bit supports all four levels, Girders, Rivets, Elevators, and Conveyor Belts. Level one - Girders and Rivets Level Two - Girders, Elevators and Rivets Level Three - Girders, Conveyor Belts, Elevators and Rivets The game then continues, inserting Girder levels between the other levels. This is the same play as some versions of the coin op, other versions play all four rounds from the get go... NO, no, no! I'm talking about the fact that on the first level of the game in the Arcade, C64 and every other version of the game that I have played, there are six "floors" that you climb up to reach the girl at the top (seven if you count the floor she is on), the Atari version has only five (six with the level the girl is on). I'm not sure if the levels beyond the first are like this or not, I'll have to check again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 ah ha - I see what you mean - When you said levels I thought you meant levels not girders, yeah that's 100% true the 800 version has less girders... Still I think the 800 version's graphics are great - better in all ways than the Atarisoft C64 version. How close to the arcade are they - pretty good IMHO, certainly the game - when you play it looks and feels just right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lemmi: wasnt there a game called Crazy Kong in the arcades? that had a pie level (thats what i call it Crazy Kong was done by Falcon as a direct clone of Nintendo's Donkey Kong. It had completely different sound effects, however (actually, I thought they were better!) and the colours were different (orange girders compared to red). There was no background music, either. Numerous bootlegs of Falcon's clone were made by Alca, Jeutel and Orca, including one designed to run off Scramble hardware. (The colours on that one were _really_ messed up -- green girders, neon-green Kong, etc.) And yes, it had the "pie" level (a.k.a. Cement Factory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindfield Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 There were always several key arguments I had with people back in the day regarding C64 vs. Atari 8-bit. My arguments (for Atari) were: 1. Faster 6502 version. (1.79MHz vs. 1.0MHz) 2. Faster disk drives. (19.2kbps expandable to 38.4k (XF551) or 57.6k (USD) vs. 2400bps expandable to 4800bps with Epyx FastLoad; major speed difference here) 3. ANTIC! There's just no way the C64 could construct any screen mode you could dream up like Antic could. 4. (directly related to point 3) Display List! Aside from being able to construct your own screen modes, the use of display list interrupts also allowed the 8-bit to make full and proper use of its 128 colour pallate. Try that on a 16 colour C64! :-) 5. High resolution mode (320 x 192) with funky artifacting. Yeah, I know, it's kinda cheating 'cos it was entirely accidental, and didn't work on monitors, but it was still cool and spawned a slew of really great games. 6. DOS in software. 1541s and kin had DOS built-in to the drives, so you were pretty much stuck with what it had. You could use front-ends, of course, but they still tapped in to an underlying structure. DOS in software on Ataris provided a lot of great flexibility, and spawned great DOSes like Sparta and MyDOS. C64 did have GEOS, though, something I wish had caught on with the 8-bit in the likes of DiamondOS and kin. 7. 4 channels + noise POKEY vs. 3 channels SID. Okay, so SID sounded better with its ability to apply ADSR envelopes to sound in hardware, but I think the 8-bit was better suited for complex sound effects. Plus, the 8-bit in its (much) later years was fully capable of producing the same tunes the ST did in its megademos, which was quite impressive. (The ST is another story... crap 3 channel YM2149) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 That 128 color palette you speak of was later expanded tho 256 remember...I have art programs that take advantage of this too. Although one of the best art programs, Rambrandt, only uses a 128 color palette. But I've created graphics using numerous art programs that range from monochrome (or artifacted) to 4096 colors onscreen at one time (special DLI's and VBI's are used in some along with interlacing, but the 4096 color Colerview program actually rapidly flips between three seperate screens of red green and blue hues. In any case, I've done some very impressive graphics on the Atari that C64 graphic artists can only dream of. By the way, I have a video monitor that cna be hooked up via standard video or Chroma/Luma (S-video) and it still allows artifacting to occur. I've never personally seen an atari hooked up to a monitor where it didn't artifact in graphics 8 mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2002 Author Share Posted February 22, 2002 did atari really has 256 colors??? make this test dli pha lda #$14 sta wsync sta $d01a sta wsync sta wsync sta wsync sta wsync lda #$15 sta wsync sta wsync sta wsync sta wsync pla rti do you really see any difference??? heaven (oops...am i mad? i know atari has 256 colors...16 colors in 16 hue... but... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted February 22, 2002 Author Share Posted February 22, 2002 aaarrg... of course you see no differnece... insert after lda #15, sta $d01a... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 uhh...I'm not a programmer, and I don't need proof of the Atari's 256 colors, I have proof in graphics programs I use...but, I'm very curious about this "test" you did above; is this just something I can enter into Atari Basic? or is it Assembly or some other language? I'd like to give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 GTIA equiped 8bit machines have a 256 color palette - CTIA a 128 color palette... BUT Only the GTIA modes can show the 256 colors, mode 9 - 16 shades of one color - add DLII's and get all 256 colors. Al other modes ignore the 1st bit of the color value - giving 128 selectable shades in non GTIA modes. The odd color values have no effect except in GTIA mode... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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