Best of the "2000" games?

[Ze_ro]

Seeing as this board seems to be running on empty, I'll start asking some questions to get discussion going. First of all, which of the "2000" remakes would you consider the best?

 

Now, to make this a little more interesting, I think we should also broaden the scope of this to a little more than just the games with "2000" tacked on the end of it. The following games are all fair game:

 

Tempest 2000

Defender 2000

Missile Command 3D

Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure

Breakout 2000

 

Personally, I'd say Tempest 2000 is my favorite. They're all very good actually, but the abstract nature of Tempest fits extremely well with Jeff Minter's amazing special effects to make a very good game. I was also happy to finally see a home version of Tempest Breakout 2000 is also very good, and I must admit I've only played this game once (I don't own it... yet), so I can't really provide much authoritative comment on it.

 

--Zero

[Gunstar]

If we're going to broaden it beyond just the 2000 name, then Wolfenstein 3d needs to be included since it is an update of the Castle Wolfenstein/beyond games...and you left out SpaceWar 2000, Hoverstrike (originally Battlezone 2000) and Battlesphere's creators wanted to call it Star Raiders 2000, but Atari denied them...it *is* too, at least in Alone against the Empires mode.

 

All that being said, I always felt Missle Command 3D was the best update, with Battlesphere right on it's *ss. By the way, I always forget and refer to MC3D as MC2K anyway...

[eric_ruck]

I'd have to go with Defender 2000, it's the reason the Jaguar is still hooked up.

 

Speaking of hooked up, looks like the PS2 is headed for the basement this Thanksgiving to be replaced by the Xbox in the den. I never really liked that thing (the PS2, I mean), should have unloaded it on eBay the first day while I had the chance.

 

All of which is ironic since I'm contracting on a PS2 project.

 

EMR

[AtariDude]

Tempest 2000 is great! I love the music that comes with it and the game itself is great. There is a problem with too many visuals at time which can be distracting but otherwise it is a great game!

[Ze_ro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gunstar:

If we're going to broaden it beyond just the 2000 name, then Wolfenstein 3d needs to be included since it is an update of the Castle Wolfenstein/beyond games...and you left out SpaceWar 2000, Hoverstrike (originally Battlezone 2000) and Battlesphere's creators wanted to call it Star Raiders 2000, but Atari denied them...it *is* too, at least in Alone against the Empires mode.

---

 

Yeah, I forgot about Space War 2000 until after I had already left the computer... Battlesphere I had thought about, but figured that the resemblance to Star Raiders wasn't emphasized for it to really be considered a remake (Though if you want to vote for it, go right ahead!). As for Wolfenstein though, I don't really see it as much of a remake, since the gameplay is so radically different. I mean, all the 2000 games still keep most of the gameplay intact without changing the entire genre of the game.

 

And Hoverstrike was originally Battlezone 2000? Huh, I had no idea. I had always wondered why they had never done a Battlezone 2000, but had always assumed that they shifted development over to the Lynx version instead.

 

--Zero

 

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Ze_ro ]

[Gunstar]

They (Atari) felt that HS had strayed to far from the original game play of Battlezone, like you feel with Wolfenstein, so they changed the name. Personally, I think it is still very much like BattleZone, especially if a tank was replaced by the hovercraft. I do disagree with you about W3D though; It is *very* similiar in my opinion to the original, just made into 3D like many of the other 2000 games. How long has it been since you played Castle Woilfenstein? I think you need a refresher, I believe them to be very closely related in game play.

As far as Battlesphere goes, just ask anyone who owns the game what they think it is the most like and the first words out of their mouths will be "Star Raiders," heck, it even has some of the original sfx in it from SR.

[Ze_ro]

I still have the original Castle Wolfenstein (And it's non-3D sequel) on the C-64... but I don't really see how you can even really compare the two. Making it 3D changes everything, since you have a much more involved aiming system, and you can only see what's in front of you.

 

I was going to draw a comparison to Missile Command 3D, but I have to admit that the VR mode in it is actually completely different from the original... though the 3D mode is pretty much the same with nicer graphics. The 2000 modes in Tempest and Defender are a lot closer to their respective originals than Wolfenstein 3D is to Castle Wolfenstein in my opinion.

 

Of course, I agree with Atari when they say Hover Strike isn't close enough to Battlezone to carry on the name... so I guess it's all a matter of opinion (Personally, if they had called it that, I would have been a little disappointed)

 

--Zero

[Gunstar]

Yeah, it is really a matter of opinion, as I feel that VR Missle Command is a good 3D update to the original, I just don't feel that having three dimensions instead of two makes it unlike the original. Really, you could argue that any first person shooter that uses a crosshair is really just an update to Missle command, as the basic principal of moving a crosshair (cursor) around the 2 dimensional TV screen and shooting at stuff is the same basic gameplay (or any shooter that uses crosshairs). So the definition of an "update" to a classic, or just about any game that comes out is blurry at best since the basic concepts of most video games can be traced back to the classics as far as your interaction with the game goes...Doom and Pac-man-run around mazes (levels) picking up stuff dots (ammo/guns) and running from or after ghosts (demons). Pitfall II and Tomb Raider- run and jump, grab treasure, avoid baddies, swim in water, climb ladders, etc., etc. So on and So on and So on, you could trace back just about anygame to a similiar concept in the classic libraries.

[liveinabin]

whoah!! well, maybe I overstated it a bit, its not TERRIBLE. But it's just easy game music, i dunno - graphically and sonically, it's not very creative - just big sprites drawn by someone who never studied. pity really, theres a great game under the cliched visuals.

[liveinabin]

Well, I've had a Jaguar for, oh, about 2 hours now and I've got Defender 2000.

the classic mode is better than any other version of Defender I've played (though the gameboys comes close )

Defender+ is unnecessary and Defender 2000 is JUST AWFUL. You can't have a ship that big, going that fast in a playfield that small. And that music - good grief - what is it with Jeff Minter and hideous early-90s techno???

I might get missile command 3d tomorrow and give that a go.

[Gunstar]

I love that "hideous" early '90's techno and think the music in Defender 2K is fantastic!!! I also love EVERY mode in the game...but of course you have to be a shooter GOD like me to enjoy a CHALLENGE like Defender 2K...from my experience everyone that hates it, hates it because they suck at it. I can make it to over a million without losing a single ship!!! oh, yeah, let me go pet my ego somewhere...but to make you happy, you might try Protector or Protector S.E. (soon to be released) as an alternative Defender update, everyone that hates Defender 2K (because they suck) seems to really like Protector (can you say EASY?)...

[Yak]

Point taken aboput the graphics in D2K - I would have likd to pursue more the ideas started in Defender+, more algorithmic effects, shatters and warps and such, smaller ship and enemies like in the original but extrapolated like in T2K. But TPTB were more inclined towards using a lot of sprites and bitmaps (for awhile D2K was going to be on CD, which is what pushed it in that direction).

 

The big ship isn't that baad if you watch the scanner.

 

As for the music, well, bite me :-]. It's all down to personal taste anyway; if you hate it so much, turn the music volume down to zero and play a CD. I think the music in T2K is a lot better, but D2K isn't that bad.

 

I'll probably get a lot closer to what I really wanted to do in D2K when I do "Sheep In Space II: Ungulate Squadron" for Llamasoft Virtual Machine-supported systems llater on next year. I got those wonderful Williams-stylee shatter-explosions down pat as a subset of my sprite-handling routines on LVM. Llamatron II will show that stuff off big stylee .

 

 

(:-) - Yak

/

[liveinabin]

Do I feel a heel now!!

By the way, I loved Defender 2 on the Amiga - and gridrunner kicked ass.

[Ze_ro]

I only have two complaints about Defender 2000:

 

1. Since everything is so fast, and you have such a small range of visibility, you end up playing most of the game from the scanner. This kinda defeats the purpose of having great graphics flying around, since I'm actually just watching the pixels moving around.

 

2. Your ships looks like a penis. Luckily, I'm secure enough with my masculinity that it doesn't affect my playing.

 

I appreciate Gunstars opinion that you have to be good at this game to like it. When I first bought the game, I played it once and was utterly destroyed. It took a while before I came back and played it again, but I've gotten pretty decent at it (or at least, I suck a lot less than I used to), and the game is definitely a lot more fun that it used to be. It's gotten sort of to the point now where I play until I get tired, since by then I have so many extra ships that it would take me 15 minutes to die, even if I was trying to (I've done that before to preserve my high scores)... I could never do that in Tempest 2000 (Once I get to the rainbow webs, my ass is handed to be shortly thereafter).

 

I personally love the music in both T2K and D2K... though I prefer the Defender music. It's too bad the planned music CD never came out (though I managed to find the MP3's on the net anyways )

 

Although they're both great games, I'd still have to choose Tempest as the better game... I think the graphics are better overall too. I think Defender 2000 would have been better if you'd gotten your way with the pixel shatters and such The sheer "chaos factor" of Tempest 2000 was one of the best parts of the game.

 

--Zero

[liveinabin]

just seen some shots of tempest 3k and I want a nuon!

[Songbird]

Hey, Yak, nice to see you posting on an Atari message board again!

 

As Gunstar pointed out, for anyone who is looking for a different take on the Defender theme for the Jag, Protector has been very well received by Jaguar fans; many place it in their top 5 games.

 

And Protector SE is coming out in 1Q02 featuring new graphics, level layouts, gameplay enhancements, JagFree CD support, BJL support, and more!

[Yak]

I think we can agree that the ship in D2K is a little large. Never really thought of it as a cock, though, but come to think of it...

 

D2K turned into a nice enough shooty game, but going big on the graphics and having all those bitmap layers kinda lost the "defendery" feel of it somehow.

 

Shit, it was never going to be my best game with all that was going on in my non-work life at the time I was writing it (basically my father was dying and I really wasn't handling it that well).

 

I'd *love* to do a Defender for the LVM, but don't fancy getting my arse sued off . So I'll have to just settle for putting a modicum of Defendery-ness in Sheep In Space II: Ungulate Squadron :-).

 

 

(:-) - Yak

/

[Yak]

Oh, cool, I just noticed somebody made me a little icon for my posts! Kewl :-). Whoever did that, "diolch yn fawr i chi" (that's the Welsh polite form for "cheers, mate").

 

 

(:-) - Yak

/

[liveinabin]

I guess the main ship was a bit big, but at the same time, the enemy ships in classic defender were big also - which I won't complain about cause I was terrible at hiting them in the arcade version

I think the best things about Defender were 1) that gun noise!

2) those particle explosions.

And they're all well and truly there so I take my hat off to you.

By the way, being VERY new to Jag, I haven't been fortunate enough to have played Tempest 2000 yet. i've played Tempest X but I hear you hated that, what's the difference between the two?

[Yak]

Basically Tempest X should have been good - *could* have been excellent if they had simply improved the graphics and left the gameplay - which was perfectly fine as it was - the hell alone. It just annoyed me - why take a good game, give it better graphics, and then go and spoil the gameplay for no reason?

 

 

(:-) - Yak

/

[liveinabin]

I've got to get Tempest 2000 then. Oh yeah, any forthcoming games that'll include llamas? And do you still go by the Jeff 'awesome' Minter moniker? or am I smoking too many banana skins?

[mmichael0]

I think Defender 2000 is a great game with lots of gameplay.

I also like Pong game as well.

 

I got Tempest 2000 but it on the Saturn , so may be one day I will get the Jaguar version as well.

I not that good at Defender , Defender + or Defender 2000 (need more training )