Quick & Easy Video Upgrade for 800XL

[Rachel-Emma]

Eeeeepppp!

 

That's way out of my price range! =o.O=;;

 

Not that anyone probably cares, but since you seem interested... =^.^=

 

I'm actually considering the TX-SR707. It's THX certified, and has plenty of S-video and HDMI inputs. And it's a lot more affordable.

 

For now I'm just using a cheap HDMI auto-switch for the two disc players and that's working out just fine. =^.^=

 

But whichever one I do upgrade to it might not matter too much. I recently found a device that converts both S-video and component to HDMI for about $42. I don't know how good it is though as I haven't tried it yet. If anyone here is interested in the video converter let me know and I'll post the info about it.

 

I'd been hoping that someone here would come up with a way to cheaply mod an 800XL to output component video, but I guess it's either too difficult or nobody wants to bother with it. Considering that S-video inputs seem to be going the way of the dodo I'd think that someone beside me would be interested in this.

 

 

BobKat

 

I bought the Onkyo NR808 about 5 weeks ago from Sevenoaks. I got it for £750 and it was meant to be £899. I've never looked back and it's a great partner to my Monitor Audio RX6's and RX Centre. The novelty has not worn away yet and everytime I watch a blu ray it always amazes me. DTS HD MASTER I played some 12" vinyls on my Project 3 deck the other day and the sound was out of this world. Vinyl still beats any other format out today without doubt.

 

I'm definately interested in modifying an XL to output component video (even an XE). There must be someone out there that would be willing to play around with that idea to hoepfully come up with a solution. MY XL needs modifying because i can't be doing with the shadowing on the screen with the use of the RF cable. I did see a 5 pin din cable to scart the other day. Do you think that would work. It does however state on the eBay listing that it is for Audio only though.

[svenski]

There are some XL to SCART leads about, I have a couple and they do offer a better picture than through the normal RF. The audio only cable you saw would most likely not be suitable.

[+bob1200xl]

Component (or VGA) output wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it wouldn't be cheap. You would have to start with a 4-layer PCB, for one...

 

Bob

 

 

 

The one I'm considering replacing it with is the Onkyo TX-SR608.

 

You really need an Onkyo NR808

Eeeeepppp!

 

That's way out of my price range! =o.O=;;

 

Not that anyone probably cares, but since you seem interested... =^.^=

 

I'm actually considering the TX-SR707. It's THX certified, and has plenty of S-video and HDMI inputs. And it's a lot more affordable.

 

For now I'm just using a cheap HDMI auto-switch for the two disc players and that's working out just fine. =^.^=

 

But whichever one I do upgrade to it might not matter too much. I recently found a device that converts both S-video and component to HDMI for about $42. I don't know how good it is though as I haven't tried it yet. If anyone here is interested in the video converter let me know and I'll post the info about it.

 

I'd been hoping that someone here would come up with a way to cheaply mod an 800XL to output component video, but I guess it's either too difficult or nobody wants to bother with it. Considering that S-video inputs seem to be going the way of the dodo I'd think that someone beside me would be interested in this.

 

 

BobKat

[bobkat2769]

Um, yeah... =^.^=;;

 

I just can't seem to justify spending as much as or more than I paid for two 800XLs and a 1050 drive (about $100) just to get component output.

 

Now, I could see myself buying something that cost about $10 to $20. At the most $30 to get component out on an 8-bit Atari.

 

Well, as long as my ancient 27" sony keeps working it's not really a problem. I've used it for an Atari display since the day I got it. =^.^=;;

 

BobKat

 

Component (or VGA) output wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it wouldn't be cheap. You would have to start with a 4-layer PCB, for one...

 

Bob

 

 

 

[clip!]

 

I'd been hoping that someone here would come up with a way to cheaply mod an 800XL to output component video, but I guess it's either too difficult or nobody wants to bother with it. Considering that S-video inputs seem to be going the way of the dodo I'd think that someone beside me would be interested in this.

[BillC]

There are some XL to SCART leads about, I have a couple and they do offer a better picture than through the normal RF. The audio only cable you saw would most likely not be suitable.

You need to be careful with SCART cables for the Atari8. I found this page, http://freespace.virgin.net/asteroid.76/scartcables/, selling them for the A8/C64. An potential problem is that the C64 uses pin 5 for Audio In while the A8 uses it for Chroma Out, unless DIN pin 5 isn't connected which would be fine for a composite cable.

 

ABBUC also sells several video cables in the hardware category here: http://www.abbuc.de/shopabbuc/index.php

[+bob1200xl]

What if you got higher screen resolution to go with the improved video? As you say, not a lot of justification for big bucks just to see 320x192, or such. That looks OK with minimal tweaking, now. 80 columns and GUIs may need a little more bandwidth.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

Um, yeah... =^.^=;;

 

I just can't seem to justify spending as much as or more than I paid for two 800XLs and a 1050 drive (about $100) just to get component output.

 

Now, I could see myself buying something that cost about $10 to $20. At the most $30 to get component out on an 8-bit Atari.

 

Well, as long as my ancient 27" sony keeps working it's not really a problem. I've used it for an Atari display since the day I got it. =^.^=;;

 

BobKat

 

Component (or VGA) output wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it wouldn't be cheap. You would have to start with a 4-layer PCB, for one...

 

Bob

 

 

 

[clip!]

 

I'd been hoping that someone here would come up with a way to cheaply mod an 800XL to output component video, but I guess it's either too difficult or nobody wants to bother with it. Considering that S-video inputs seem to be going the way of the dodo I'd think that someone beside me would be interested in this.

[bobkat2769]

When I want a GUI or hi-res graphics I use the PC. That's what it's good for. I really don't care about any of that on the 8-bit Atari. The built-in and programmable modes it already has are all want or expect from it.

 

For a lot of things I actually find a GUI to be too restrictive or slow. Then again, there are a lot of other things, like graphics or video editing work I also do, that are much easier in a GUI.

 

I like the Atari just fine the way it is, limitations and all for what little I still use it for. Mostly I use it for light programming and typing in software for the Atari Archives web site. And most of that I actually do on my PC with the emulator. I use my 800XLs mostly for testing on real hardware. Especially when I do ML programming. Every so often I'll find something that may not work quite the same on one or the other.

 

When I'm trying to learn some kind of low or medium level programming I actually prefer the simplicity of an 8-bit Atari or an older PC with MS-DOS. I find it a lot easier to deal with. And if I screw up and manage to crash the machine I just hit the reset button and I'm back to work in seconds (versus minutes with Windoze).

 

As to 80 columns, after I upgraded the video, that mode (without needing any special hardware other than a BIOS load) looks great on my 27" Sony Trinitron TV hooked up with an S-video cable.

 

But someday the CRT in that TV may die and I'll need to hook up my Atari 800XLs to a modern TV. None of which have S-video inputs.

 

If you're even a little like me, once you've gotten used to the sharpness and improved color you get from a good S-video output you notice just how washed out and blurry the composite output is.

 

And it really would be nice to be able to hook up my second 800XL to the big Sony in the living room and get a decent picture from it. Which I can't get with the RF or composite outputs.

 

I'm not what you'd call a big Atari fanatic. I have a lot of very fond memories of using and programming the 8-bit and early ST series Atari computers. Mostly the 8-bit models. Part of it for me is a nostalgia thing. I sometimes go for several months of not using the Atari computers, and then I'll go for several months of using them a lot.

 

I've never really been into gaming much on the Atari computers. Not that I didn't used to spend plenty of time playing arcade games on my 5200 or 800 computer. But I spent a lot more time programming or editing documents. Mostly I've used it for programming and learning and figuring out things. It's still a great platform for that and a lot of what I learn on the Atari easily translates to programming on both older and modern PCs.

 

Now that I'm retired I finally have the time to learn all the things I wanted to learn but couldn't back in the day. Every so often I'll break out a new programming book for the Atari or for MS-DOS and read the book cover to cover and do all the programming projects in it. I'll also mess around with stuff to test ideas I get from what I'm learning or to figure out how things work. =^.^=

 

But, as I'm retired on disability, I often don't have a lot of money available to spend on my hobbies. Keeping myself and my kitties fed, keeping a roof over our heads and the the car running definitely takes priority.

 

So spending $100 on a VBXE is just out of the question for me, and probably for a lot of other casual or part-time users like me. 90% of what it does is just overkill for us and we'd never use all the fancy modes it has.

 

Now, if someone made something that took the output of ANTIC/GTIA and converted it to a modern digital format like a VGA or DVI and priced it around $20-$30 I suspect a lot of folks would be interested in that. Even it if was as much as $50-$60 I would probably buy at least one.

 

BobKat =^.^=

 

 

What if you got higher screen resolution to go with the improved video? As you say, not a lot of justification for big bucks just to see 320x192, or such. That looks OK with minimal tweaking, now. 80 columns and GUIs may need a little more bandwidth.

 

Bob

 

Um, yeah... =^.^=;;

 

I just can't seem to justify spending as much as or more than I paid for two 800XLs and a 1050 drive (about $100) just to get component output.

 

Now, I could see myself buying something that cost about $10 to $20. At the most $30 to get component out on an 8-bit Atari.

 

Well, as long as my ancient 27" sony keeps working it's not really a problem. I've used it for an Atari display since the day I got it. =^.^=;;

 

BobKat

 

Component (or VGA) output wouldn't be terribly difficult, but it wouldn't be cheap. You would have to start with a 4-layer PCB, for one...

 

Bob

 

[clip!]

 

I'd been hoping that someone here would come up with a way to cheaply mod an 800XL to output component video, but I guess it's either too difficult or nobody wants to bother with it. Considering that S-video inputs seem to be going the way of the dodo I'd think that someone beside me would be interested in this.

[JohnBuell]

Going back to the mods on the first page of this topic, can anyone shed some light on what tools I could use to figure out where I went wrong? Like I said, the 800XL will start up and play sound, but there's NO VIDEO at all. I have a handheld multimeter, but I'm sure I could get my hands on some other testing tools. What numbers should I be looking for at which spots on the board?

[Vandal968]

This is a great mod. I finally tried it on one of my machines (late model 800XL that my 3yr old son uses). The board in this machine is a Rev D, so the c56 cap was already gone. At first, I only did part of it (no chroma feedback resistor or power reroute) and the results were very good. Nice crisp graphics and no new problems introduced. I didn't do the power mod since I didn't see any of the banding that others have mentioned. I also didn't do the chroma feedback resistor since another poster said that it made no difference for him. After a day or two with the improved machine, I got tired of the poor color saturation (reds especially are kind of a muddy rust color) so I decided to try the chroma feedback resistor. I was determined to see if it really makes a difference or if there is a placebo effect. I soldered one side of the resistor in-place and left the other side unsoldered, but trimmed to length and hovering right above its connection point. I then brought the bare motherboard to the tv and fired up Donkey Kong. While looking at some red objects on the title screen, I pressed down on the chroma feedback resistor bringing it into the circuit. The reds became slightly more red and less brown, there were no deleterious effects. I did this over and over maybe ten times and there was a mild (maybe 10%) change in color saturation, but it is DEFINITELY there. It is subtle enough that if you made the change and hooked the machine to the tv 10 minutes later, you might not notice the difference, but flipping it in and out while the tv is live leaves no question that it makes an improvement.

 

Testing complete, I soldered it in the rest of the way and reassembled the machine. It was only now that it was all-together that I wondered if the color saturation might be too high in games with a lot of color like Fort Apocalypse. I fired it up, and no-problem, it looks great. The true test came a few days later. I was playing a game with my son and my wife walked into the room. She was unaware that I had modified the machine since I can only pester her with so-much Atari information per-week before she goes into overload. She looked at the tv for a moment and said "Wow, what did you do to the computer? It looks great, and the colors are a lot brighter" Totally unsolicited! Very high praise indeed.

 

Thank you for this mod Bryan, outstanding improvement.

 

cheers,

c

[Bryan]

You're welcome, although it draws on the work of others (mostly Ben Poehland and Bob Woolley) with some custom tweaks.

 

I've drawn up a schematic for what I think will be the ultimate video clean-up board which will be completely immune to power supply noise, able to properly drive all outputs properly at 75 ohms, and will be tweaked to the most NTSC and PAL compatible levels. I'll need to build a prototype before settle on the design completely.

 

It may also allow a choice of artifact colors on Composite if the feature works out right.

 

Anyone know what happened to Ben, The Alchemist? I spoke to him many years ago about tube FM tuners, and he was going through a rough time.

[Gunstar]

I have "S-video" with my Commodore 1084s monitor, but it uses the two seperate chroma/luma RCA jacks instead of the mini-din connectors that are going the way of the do-do bird as someone said. The reason I bring it up, is I am wondering if anyone ever tried, using the traditional Atari monitor cable with chroma/luma and using and RCA splitter cable on the chroma and plugging all three into the three component video jacks. I suppose it's different frequencies or something though...aye?

 

The only reason I suggest it at all is I've heard of people plugging in composite or luma RCA jacks into component and getting a mono picture output. splitting the chroma seems the logical next step.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Gunstar

[Rybags]

The "Y" part of Component is essentially the same as the Luma part of S-Video, both carry Luma + Sync so usually one will work with the other.

 

But the other 2 parts of Component are needed so that RGB can be derived, they can't be provided by normal Atari output so you get monochrome.

[atari_thomas]

Well ... I tried this mod now in 2013, so 9 years after the first post.

I used an Atari 800XL-Board PAL (european version) rev.a & another board rev.d.

 

 

I removed or added the resistors as described in the tutorial and now I have the luma-out (Pin 4 of the DIN jack) and the chroma-out (end of the resistor).

 

I tried the Atari with a Sony KV21T1D Trinitron CRT-Television (20+ years old) and a LG Flatron M1921TA TFT-TV (6+ years old)

 

The results - Sony Trinitron

 

I'm using only the composite (fbas) signal from the Atari 5-pin din-connector (pin #4) and connect it via a 4-pin S-Video cable connector (mini-din) into a Scart adaptor into the Sony.

The Sony detects a composite signal coming through it's s-video connector (actually the wrong connector) and shows this great picture:

 

 

Then I used the 'right' connector. Compsite signal from Atari's 5-pin din-connector (pin #4) connected to the Sony by a RCA connector.

The Sony get's the same signal by another input and is decoding it differently ...

 

 

The results - LG Flatron

 

I'm using only the composite (fbas) signal from the Atari 5-pin din-connector (pin #4) and connect it via the correct rca jack to the LG.

 

 

Next I cut off the right lead at c54 to get only the luma signal at the Atari 5-pin din-connector pin #4 and connected it with my 'new' chroma signal to a 4-pin S-Video connector (mini-din).

The LG has a real s-video 4-pin female jack ... so everything should work all right now.

This is what i got ...

 

 

Both pictures were not stable. The LG displays either the one or the other, swaps every second

 

Well ... maybe I did something wrong but I tried this at a rev.a board and another rev.d board (both PAL), same results.

I was suprised to get all these different results with different monitors.

 

 

 

 

 

[mimo]

LCD and plasma monitors don't like the signal from an Atari. the output from the Atari is not to current standards.

in my experience, the better the tv, the less able it is to cope with the Atari.

I have an old Sony crt which is great, but lacks an s video input. I also use a 5 year old unbranded LCD which gives good results with composite and s video.

crt still looks the best though

[Kyle22]

I have an old Sharp Aquos with SVid, a Y cable to combine Atari 800 Luma+Chroma to SVid connector. It looks good. Not quite perfect, but close. The 1200XL is a different story, of course. I'm going to do Bob's mod on it as soon as I can get the resistors & stuff. Radio$hack has such a poor selection of components anymore, I will have to mail order them.

 

-K

[atari_thomas]

In my case, here with my PAL-Ataris, the picture doesn't get better with the video mod.

I modded two different 800XLs with different revisions. Maybe I did something wrong.

 

Mimo - you're right. It really depends on the TV set and on the video decoder installed in the TV.

Looks like 'old' machines only like 'old' displays.

 

I guess we're all spoiled by digital HD 42" displays ...

 

On the other hand ... I have an Atari 2600 VGS connected to an LG 32" LCD-TV (from 2008) via HF and I get an PERFECT display ... no 2600 video mod needed.

[+Larry]

Did another 800XL today. I'm still amazed by how much good this does for the small amount of effort!

 

-Larry

[flashjazzcat]

Late to this thread, but I just did the L5 inductor bypass and removed the blurring capacitor and those two quick steps from the original Supervideo mod alone absolutely transform the Y/C output.

[+DrVenkman]

Necro'ing this old thread for any 800XL owners who may not know about it. I did it to my main 800XL in two stages over the last two weekends. My board is an NTSC Rev A2, the same revision as the original poster who started this thread 11 years ago. That's pretty convenient for me, since this is the first mod I've ever done to one of my Ataris. Last week I removed C56 and that alone made a huge difference. However,the colors were a bit overstaturated, leading to noticeably bleeding of the default white text on blue. White text on black looked great however. Today I did the rest of the mod, all the steps outlined in the first post. The results are nothing short of amazing. I highly recommend anyone else unhappy with stock 800XL video to give this a shot if they're still using compsite video, as I am.

[Bikerbob]

I will be doing this mod to my machine this weekend.

 

Is everything current here?? is there anything I need to worry about? or to change what was done so long ago?

 

I am using a rev c MB

 

James

[+DrVenkman]

I will be doing this mod to my machine this weekend.

 

Is everything current here?? is there anything I need to worry about? or to change what was done so long ago?

 

I am using a rev c MB

 

James

 

 

This gave really good results given how easy it is. Whether coincidence or not, shortly after I did this, my 4050 hex buffer chip went out, followed a month or so later by the C50 cap. I replaced each when they failed and the machine was fine. I haven't used this particular computer in a couple months, but it was fine still when I put it away.

[Bikerbob]

well I am a little cautious on this one than some I guess.

 

First.. in no pictures do I see a rev. C board.

 

I have no C56 in mine.

 

L5 has

 

So where I have put the arrow is what I am lifting? and then from that hole I am running to here?

 

I cant even find R116?? lol

 

Sorry guys..

Edited April 1, 2016 by Bikerbob

[+DrVenkman]

well I am a little cautious on this one than some I guess.

 

First.. in no pictures do I see a rev. C board.

 

I have no C56 in mine.

 

L5 has

 

So where I have put the arrow is what I am lifting? and then from that hole I am running to here?

 

I cant even find R116?? lol

 

Sorry guys..

 

 

Okay C56 is the bottom-most capacitor in a row of horizontally-mounted (left-right mounted, not up-down) components below the left side of the RF modulator. R116 is directly below Q3 (not yet modified in this photo). If your machine was built without C56, be glad. It just blurs the video. Grrr.

 

 

The power lead is soldered from the cap near the power jack (where you indicated) to the OTHER end of the L5 inductor, not the one you have marked with the arrow (sorry the photo is blurry):

 

Edited April 1, 2016 by DrVenkman

[Bikerbob]

Ok, So I finished this on my 800xl last night. and sorry to say I have not seen an improvement on my display.

 

I am composite on a LCD TV. I do have the option of S-video, so I will make a cable.. and give that a try. (Any link to pin out for S-video?)

 

Now I did not have C56 already, and R58 was already 100ohm. I did the 3 other items bringing my chroma output to pin 4. (which I wont see until I do the S-video cable)

 

Mine is the Taiwan made, no idea if that makes a difference.

 

James

[+DrVenkman]

Ok, So I finished this on my 800xl last night. and sorry to say I have not seen an improvement on my display.

 

I am composite on a LCD TV. I do have the option of S-video, so I will make a cable.. and give that a try. (Any link to pin out for S-video?)

 

Now I did not have C56 already, and R58 was already 100ohm. I did the 3 other items bringing my chroma output to pin 4. (which I wont see until I do the S-video cable)

 

Mine is the Taiwan made, no idea if that makes a difference.

 

James

 

 

That, to me, is the reason why you didn't see any difference - removing that cap made most of the difference in my experience with this mod on my Rev A board. If your 800XL doesn't have it, you're already getting the benefit of it not being there, so to speak. The rest of the mod does help a little but perhaps not enough to see in everyone's case, depending on your TV/monitor, cabling, etc.

 

That said, Bryan's current mod, the UAV board, is easier to install and gives excellent results.