Venture 2 for 2600 -PULLED- from CGE distribution

[Snider-man]

(This message was posted to RGVC newsgroup. Since the initial announcement was made here, I felt this message should be posted here as well.)

 

Greetings gang,

 

Because of concerns with a slight supply meeting excessive demand...

 

Because of WAY too many personal e-mails calling me a "jerk" (among

other things) for releasing the game only at CGE...

 

Because I'm catching WAY too much grief over this...

 

I have decided to pull my 2600 homebrew "Venture II: The Abysmal

Abyss" from general distribution at Classic Gaming Expo 2001. These

will NOT be available for purchase at the Con. I hated to have to take

this route, but what once was an exciting, new project for me has now

become a pain in the neck from all of the petty squabbling I've

witnessed.

 

I will offer these answers to questions posted on RGVC:

 

Q: "You're only making *20*? That's certainly not thinking ahead

considering the hundreds of folks who be there."

 

A: Agreed. However, this was never meant to be anything remotely

resembling a commercial release. These were initially destined for

distribution at the local CCAG (Ohio Con) where 20 would've been

enough to supply the few hungry 2600 fans in attendance. However, due

to a mail problem, the ROMs didn't arrive until recently. I therefore

decided to churn them out and sell them at CGE instead for $20 per

cart (with box and instructions). I've never done a project like this

before and was not about to commit to a 75 to 100 cart run until I

knew I could do it. Now then, it takes me 45 minutes per cart to

solder and wire it up. the boxes took 2 months worth of work to put

together. 20 carts equals 13 hours of labor...*if* I haven't screwed

up a connection and have to re-do it. Needless to say, 20's all I've

got the time, talent, and initial cash (for parts and equipment) to

make.

 

Q: "I can't make it to CGE and I want a cart! What's with the CGE-only

release?"

 

A: The initial 20 were destined only for CGE, but Hozer Video will

take over production immeditely after. Hell, you could get a cart by

the end of August if you wanted. The only difference in the release is

the label and the nifty box isn't included. Therefore, I made sure the

cart is available to ANYONE who wanted one. I don't know where this

"woe is me, I can't have one" attitude is coming from.

 

Q: "So now I gotta stand in line AGAIN at CGE for your creation?"

 

A: I never said anything of the sort. I knew that I'd only have these

few and wasn't planning on an "official release." "First come, first

served" was going to be my motto. However, people were e-mailing me,

telling me they weren't waiting in another line and they were gonna

track me down at my hotel room and pound on the door 'till I sold them

one. Ain't gonna happen now, gang.

 

So, to summarize: I saw the opportunity to bring my new game to the

Con, show it to folks, and play "Show N Tell."

 

"Look, I made this myself and I made the box and I made the label and

isn't it keen?"

 

After I made the announcement, I encountered nothing but jealousy,

bickering, and anger from folks who either wanted one and didn't want

to wait, demanded one by hook or by crook, disagreed with the quantity

I made, disagreed with the way I was distributing them, or a host of

other rage-inducing sins I seemed to have committed.

 

Therefore, to make EVERYONE happy, Venture II may be on display, but

it certainly will NOT be available for general purchase. I may throw

them on eBay. I haven't decided yet. I'll make more than the $20 per I

was gonna charge, that's for sure.

 

Thanks for letting me blow off steam.

 

Tim Snider

"Your Friendly Neighborhood Snider-man"

[Tempest]

Damn! I hope I don't run into this problem when I finally complete Cypher (if ever). I never knew the classic gaming community could be so callow. But it's been like that lately, with alot of CGE only releases (or special releases) everyone is willing to do what ever it takes to get one. I'm starting to wonder about the state of humanity in general nowdays...

 

Tempest

[Marco(2)]

Sorry to hear you had to go through this, Tim. I guess that's part of the classic gaming community for ya.

 

I just don't understand why people end up so frustrated (and nasty) for not being able to own or play something. Whats' the deal with that?

 

I mean, we're not bugging whoever-owns-Atari-now to release more Quadruns, so we can all have a shrinkwrapped copy, are we? I just don't get it... must be my midlife crisis again

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[videotwit]

I am also sorry you had to go through this, Tim. Many times I find myself wanting to go back 4 or 5 years, when the "classic gaming community" was more of a community. It's starting to get so cut-throat out there.

 

It's really too bad someone who has taken so much of their spare time and effort has to endure the whining, complaining, and flaming.

 

I wish you the best of luck on auctioning them off. I am sure you'll do better than $20 per cart, which is well deserved. It'd be interesting to see if those who were threatening to knock down your room door at CGE will be the ones bidding on eBay as well.

[Joel D. Park]

Hey, I'm still looking forward to your cart, I hope this doesn't discourage you from turning production over to Hozer.

 

Good luck, and sorry about all the pain and stuffering you had to go though in the name of Atari!!

 

Joel D. Park

[Malix]

Really sucks that a few bad apples have to ruin it for people who appreciate what you are doing. I just hope you do not become jaded and quit doing what you are doing. Keep up the good work.

[MikeMika]

Imagine that times a million, and you know what modern developers go through, too. It is a horrible dark side that should not at all discourage you from the joy of making a new game. When I read your initial post, I was really bummed that I might not be able to get a copy at CGE, even though I plan to be there, but happy that I could at least get it from Hozer. At least 90% of collectors in any market area are scum, and this is evidence of it.

 

I am very excited for the game, and I hope you have equally as many e-mails of support for it. Ventrue is one of my favorites games, and I used to play it religiously on the 2600.

 

Drop me a line, I'd like to talk to you regarding the possibility of a commercial tie-in with something our company is working on. Also, I'll send you what I've been doodling around with on the 2600, Kickman, Donkey Kong 3, and Zookeeper, hopefully in cart form soon, so that you can be the ultimate bad guy and have two of the *rarest* games out there.

 

Best,

Mike

[King Asmo]

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Snider-Man. I think the classic gaming community is being pretty rude with Homebrew developers. I also find people on RGVC not to be that useful. All that ever goes on in there is laughing at eBay.. I find whenever I ask a question about label variations or fixing systems or anything of that nature, I never get any replies.

 

One thing I'd like to say is, if you're only producing 20 carts, I'd suggest the price should have been closer to $200 than $20. You were just setting yourself up for people to buy up your carts, then turn around and sell them on eBay.

 

Mike

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

Wow. This is a tough crowd. However, I don't think it's just "a few bad apples" that have ruined your vision.

 

Releasing an anticipated sequel in such a limited quantity is going to cause squabbles, without a doubt. I've not seen it, but I'm sure it looks good and would be great to own. I'm a player and collector, so it would be super for me to get one. Offering it in a quantity of only 20 at a very specific location, though, is going to present problems.

 

These factors combined with a good bit of e-advertising done within these forums have escalated the value and worth of the game already. It definitely sounds like your heart and loyalty to the 2600 are in the right place, but to almost e-taunt everyone with the game's release and then not expect to get e-mail requests is almost unreasonable.

 

The real losers are the ones that can't afford to go to CGE but are still as passionate about Atari as the rest of us. I'm sure it's an excellent game, but that still doesn't get me $200 dollars to fly to CGE and hope that I get a copy. That leaves Ebay or private auctions.

 

If the game is in such high demand, sell the carts for $40 each plus shipping and handling, stipulate a 3 month lead time and dump the ROM on AtariAge so people can test it before they buy it.

 

Otherwise, expect an overwhelming demand for such a self-proclaimed rarity. People are people, and to tell them all that you have something that will likely never get will provoke a reaction every time.

 

ò¿ó

[Snider-man]

"The real losers are the ones that can't afford to go to CGE but are still as passionate about Atari as the rest of us. I'm sure it's an excellent game, but that still doesn't get me $200 dollars to fly to CGE and hope that I get a copy. That leaves Ebay or private auctions."

 

(Sigh.) Jesus on a pogo stick, I'll say this one final time. Venture II will be available AT HOZER VIDEO IN SEPTEMBER. The only thing...THE ONLY THING... that was going to be unavailable to non-CGE attendees was the treasure chest box the game comes in. This was a special little gimmick for folks who flew out. Now, if you're fired up about getting the box, send me the $200 you would've spent in airfare and I'll be tickled to make one for you.

 

To repeat, Venture II is being released to the general public through Hozer. However, I can see your concern. It's like waiting for Christmas, isn't it?

 

"But I want my presents TODAY," the 4-year-old whines on December 17th.

 

Christ, am I tired of this.

[videotwit]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeffy Arensmeyer:

The real losers are the ones that

can't afford

to go to CGE but are still as passionate about Atari as the rest of us. I'm sure it's an excellent game, but that still doesn't get me $200 dollars to fly to CGE and

hope

that I get a copy. That leaves Ebay or private auctions.

---

 

I respectfully disagree. Tim said:

 

"The initial 20 were destined only for CGE, but Hozer Video will take over production immeditely after."

 

Therefore, everyone who wants one will be able to get one. Unless you really need the nicely hand-packaged version, that is. In that case, if you aren't attending the conference you should EXPECT to have to resort to eBay. That's just the way these things work. Tim has a life, and I am sure hand-making his creations in the quanities that would satisfy the market would be an unreasonable venture (pun intended). Hozer Video Games can do that for him, and thus you can get the game at a reasonable price.

 

Homebrewers should be seen as people who are doing a favor to the gaming community.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[Rhindle The Red]

What seems clear to me is that a lot of people don't consider Hozer releases to be 'real' releases. The fact that he puts anything on a cartridge seems to diminish them in some poeple's eyes. The lack of certain things (a box, for instance) only increases the sense of getting less when buying from Hozer.

 

I think the people who want one of the 20 copies want them because they come from the guy who created it. In their minds a copy from Hozer is no more real than a copy of Chase the Chuckwagon from Hozer. The only real copy is the one that came from the creator and that's why they want it.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but that's what seems to be the case to me.

[Tempest]

Speaking of hordes of people trying ot get exclusive games, how many Elevator Action's and Combat II's are going to be on hand? I'd hate to see a riot start when people can't get a copy...

 

Tempest

[videotwit]

But in the world of homebrews, Hozer is the only other method of distribution other than doing it yourself.

 

Randy is licensed, per say, by these individual developers to do a mass-release their carts. It is very similar to Atari releasing the original Venture. Coleco developed the 2600 version of it, and then Atari aquired the license to produce it themselves. The main difference in my opinion is the scale of production.

 

It's a completely different situation altogether when Hozer distributes copies of rare released games.

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

First of all, Snider-man, you can rest assured I'll never own or attempt to own that game now. Once again, you expect to come in here and post your whine, but not expect replies. Don't flatter yourself about being the proverbial Santa Claus either. I've much anticipated a Remote Control Sand Crawler way more than anything you can assemble in your musky smelling garage. And if you're "tired of all this", then why do you come back? You know the topic of this thread, so if it's such a mental burden for you, go.

 

I fully respect "homebrewers" as people that give something back to the community. I'm just saying if there were absolutely no way of there being more than 20 hand crafted treasure chest boxes, why come in here and make a big deal about it? Now he wonders why everyone wants one. It looks like a situation that he has soley brought on himself. And to think that collectors (this is a classic collectors site) aren't going to do whatever it takes to get an extremely rare item is just silly.

 

I've got nothing against Hozer at all. It's a matter of two versions being released. And as you can see from this very site, various versions are an important part of playing and collecting. If not for a smart-aleck programmer, I'd probably have bought this game.

 

ò¿ó

[Tempest]

Jesus, what crawled up your butt and died? All of this over a little box? I remember when collecting was fun and the gaming community was really a family. Now it seems so cut throat around here and everyone has a chip on their shoulder about something or another.

 

Take a deep breath and calm down people...

 

Tempest

[Snider-man]

Hold up Jeff, I didn't mean to snap at you personally. I apologize for that.

 

You are just the last guy who complained that these games will not be available to anyone who's not at CGE. This isn't the case. Before I even made the announcement of the "special" release at CGE, I had made arrangements to have these released by Hozer. WITH LABEL AND WITH INSTRUCTIONS. However, all I get is "But no box? Yeesh, no thanks."

 

Anyway, I wasn't comparing myself to Santa or some benevolent wizard. Nor did I mean to insinuate that I viewed you as a whiny 4-year-old. What I meant - and phrased poorly - was that the only response I get is...

 

"I don't want to wait for the Hozer release. I want it now."

 

or...

 

"But I want one WITH a box, so forget it."

 

Hence the whiny-Christmas-kid parallel I was trying to paint. Not you personally. Just everyone who's taken this overly-developed sense of entitlement routine. It's gotten real old.

 

Anyway, this is a formal apology to you. You'd think with all the Hell I'm catching that I'd be a bit more thoughtful to the opinions of others. My patience has taken a beating and you surfaced as a target. Bang. Sorry about that. I didn't realize I was loaded.

 

I will post this to AtariAge as well. Sorry that I got caught up in all the name-calling, but it's tough to have a thick skin when you're attacked for doing something you thought was nice.

 

Tim Snider

[atari70s]

Hey Sniderman i understand waht you were goign though and i think your right on waiting ( heck thou i want one too) but we all need to be patient and wait for our time. HEy are they taking a list yet of who is ordering it for teh DEC 17 release and if so how much to preorder. i know with brian prescott this was teh case and i got a very nice crazy vallet cart limited to 99. ( kudos to brian) well snider we all look foward to this and much more from you

[san-d-2000]

I live in Europe, so going to the CGE is out of the question.

That means no CGE exclusives for me, but hey live goes on.

I did buy a bunch of homebrew games from hozer, and altough they did not have the limited box or whatever, I realy do enjoy them.

i don´t know if anyone knows about the crazy valet cartridge, he made a run and traded them to anyone with a good trade offer, I thought that was a pretty cool way to go.

 

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: san-d-2000 ]

[atari70s]

yea it was the first bach were limited to 99 and were sold in advanced for 20 plus shiping and at teh Philly classic 2001 he had a more wide borne version with more levels i saw the latter type for 67.00 with abotu 1 hr left what would a limited to 99 sell for on ebay with manual (unnumbered which is a shame)

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

Tim, I appreciate your apology. I, too, must apologize for letting my temper run amok on you.

 

I wish you the best of luck with Venture II. I've tried hacking a few ROMS myself. And I do mean hacking. Whereas you seem to be a seasoned programmer, I'm just a guy who loves video games and thought it would be cool to customize a few for myself. Games like River Raid and Coke Wins! are easy to graphic hack, but my color changing skills suck.

 

What I'm leading to is the fact that it must be tough taking so much grief over something you started purely for fun and love of the system. If someone picked on the way I did the pitiful amount of programming I've done, I'd tell them to kiss a purple throbber too.

 

Sorry for all of the confusion about the topic. Once again, I apologize. Here's a thought, though. You can always sell your custom games and packages on the first day until they're all gone. That way, no one beats on your hotel door after getting loopy at the free casino bar. ...and if you're planning on doing this, don't tell us until after it's done.

 

Thanx for the apology. And let me know when Hozer produces the game. I'll be there to get one.

 

ò¿ó

[NE146]

So.. what I wanna know is can is there a possiblity that perhaps we can get them from Hozer? Please say yes!

[cwilkson]

quote:

---

Speaking of hordes of people trying ot get exclusive games, how many Elevator Action's and Combat II's are going to be on hand? I'd hate to see a riot start when people can't get a copy...

 

Tempest

---

 

Well, I don't know about Elevator Action, but I do know that there are 266 functional Combat II boards in existance. As far as how many of those wind up in cases, in box with docs, at CGE...that is up to Marc (Oberhauser) at Retrodesign.

 

Oh yeah, Tempest...

I have *all* the existing prototypes for Combat II as released by Retrodesign. NYAH! NYAH!

 

Seriously, do these count as real protos? What are peoples' opinions?

 

-Chris

[Tempest]

I don't count anything as a prototype unless it's the original that came straight from the lab.

 

Actually I just talked to Marc about his prototype collection and I must say that I'm jealous. Funny thing is that the real Combat II prototype is labeled "New Combat". Odd huh?

 

Tempest

[atari70s]

hey tempest,

if my game i told you about is in a romox case and all would that still qualify as a lab case? cause i havent found any amiga games forthe 8 bit