Found Some Testing PCB's and 144 Testing Rom chips

[short bus]

I happen to have a ton of Atari OEM supplier stuff from back in 84. I recently found it in the attic.

 

I've got 2 dual slot testing PCB's and 143 testing chips. Whether the games are released versions or not, I have no idea.

I do know that I have 88 games from 1982 and before. The chip dates are all 1977.

 

Everything is mint. The chips are all stored in original clear plastic boxes all pressed in the sponge material. Some of the chips are white and all are Intel brand.

 

The dual slot testing PCB's are Mint or Near Mint. All the games work on a standard 2600 set, using the testing PCB's and have been tested.

 

My main deal is that I have 88 games and I have no idea what versions they are. Oddly enough I have a few odd things: a game labeled "NCOUNT" on the chip. Does anyone know about this game? It could be Encounter at L5. I also have a Skeet Shoot chip.

 

I have 88 games all in prototype chip OBJ file format. To help validate the collection, I have a copy of an old school printout from 3/19/1982 indicating the game cartridges, original file names, controller required and the number of PROM's required (2716'S).

 

It's truly one of a kind and I'd like someone who can appreciate to have it and have a nice piece of Atari history.

 

So if anyone can tell me more about the value of the chips and whether I should break it up or sell it whole, feel free to let me know. I'll be checking this message board over the next week as I prepare the auction.

 

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: short bus ]

[Tempest]

Wow! This sounds like the type of thing I like. Do you have any pictures?

 

Tempest

[atari70s]

hey thats what i was looking for a little while how much you askign for it ( any clues?) what are you interested in maybe we can work a deal

[Tempest]

I believe he said he was going to auction them and was just looking for opinions.

 

Personally I'd keep them all together, it woudl be a shame to split up something this unique. Were you planning to auction them on ebay? As for price, who knows? Something like this could fetch $600 or more (maybe $1000).

 

Tempest

[Tizoc]

quote:

---

Originally posted by short bus:

I'd like someone who can appreciate to have it and have a nice piece of Atari history.

---

 

Trust me, no one can appreciate this more than Tempest; they don't call him the "Master of Prototypes" for nothing.

 

This collection should definately be kept together. If you could be more specific as the titles and maybe some pictures, we might be a able to give you a good idea on price.

[Marco(2)]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tizoc:

Trust me, no one can appreciate this more than Tempest; they don't call him the "Master of Prototypes" for nothing.

---

 

.. hehe, how much did you get paid to say that?

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[Marco(2)]

quote:

---

Originally posted by short bus:

So if anyone can tell me more about the value of the chips and whether I should break it up or sell it whole, feel free to let me know. I'll be checking this message board over the next week as I prepare the auction.

---

 

Sounds like a great piece of Atari 2600 history indeed, especially since it's in such a nice condition. Monetary value would probably be a couple hundred dollars. It really depends on the games that are in there. So, it would be best if you could make a detailed listing.

 

These type of EPROM boards and chips are popping up rather frequently lately. If it's just chips of released games it'll still do well on Ebay, if there's special stuff in there (different versions of released games or even unreleased games) you have yourself a winner!

 

I wouldn't break up the set, it deserves to be kept together, remaining in the status and condition it was found in.

 

Good luck on your auction! (be sure to run it in September or so, when people have returned from their vacations).

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

[Tempest]

Now you've really got me interested. Can you send me a game list? I'm really looking forward to this auctoin.

 

Tempest

[Tempest]

I appreciate everyones high opinion of my prototype collection, but it's not nearly as big as some of my friends. Lots of people have more prototypes than I do.

 

Pitfall does raise an intersting point though, the mix different of companies and the fact that all the chips have the same date leads me to believe that your collection could very well be a pirate set-up. I have one of these on my webpage at the bottom of the 2600 page, do your EPROMs look like that?

 

The one chip vs two Spacechase could be because one is a real prototype and one is a copy. I know all my pirated EPROMs are on one chip and lal my real prototypes are on two (usually labeled lo and hi).

 

BTW, 20 EPROM games? I have 82 prototypes, where did you come up with 20?

 

Tempest

 

[ 07-28-2001: Message edited by: Tempest ]

[short bus]

Thanks for replying guys,

 

Let me reply question by question. Yes, I just took pictures for the eBay auction. I will try to post them on my site later this weekend and post a link here as well.

 

In regards to keeping them together, I've checked inventories of collectors and this is really something different. No, I do not know how much I want for the set. I'd really like it to be a market driven demand. Realistically, the set is truly one of a kind, original and would have cost a pretty penny back in 84, just for standard store stuff, much less something like this.

 

Not only can one play all 88 games in the set, but they can use the PCB's to play their own game chips.

 

I really need to know some game history info so I can help those who need specific info during the auction. Specifically, with Space Chase. I'd really like to know the difference between the few versions. The collection has two versions, one with a single chip and one with two chips.

 

Let me cut and paste a bit from my eBay write-up that will be posted soon.

 

UPDATE: After scouring the web, especially AtariAge.com, a great site, I’ve notice a lot of the 89 games that are in the collection are from different software manufactures from different times. This doesn’t make complete sense to me because I know the box was put away in 1984 and some of games did not come out on the market until a few years later.

Additionally, I’ve scanned all the chip mfg dates and they are all from 1977. Some of the chips are totally white and look considerably different from the other test chips. The chips have always been stored in the sponge material in their storage cases.

 

PROM RATINGS AND RARITY: After reading the chip labels and rewriting the entire list in Excel, I’ve compared it to the ratings at AtariAge and most of the “Rarity” ratings range from common 2’s to mostly 3’s and 4’s. I only wrote the lowest rating assuming they were the lowest, although these games are all from 1982 or earlier. Specifically, Rarity Ratings range from 1 #5 Rare, 6 #4 Scarce+, many #3’s and #2’s and a few very common games, although they are all independent testing IC Chips.

 

(pic not here yet) Showing all the chip boxes. All 143 chips date 1977. A total of 89 Games, many scarce including SKEET SHOOT, BRIDGE, DRAGON, FLAG CAPTURE, MATH, NCOUNT?, SSNAKE, STELLAR.

Okay...Everyone at AtariAge just got a first hand look at some of the Auction text. I will forward picture links ASAP.

 

Another note: I've really scoured the web and a bunch of collections for "proto chips" and discovered a lot. The chips that I have look identical to a bunch in collections, same Intel chips, literally, the same white filleted label, the whole bit, except the mfg dates are all 1977.

 

Does anyone know of someone with this many proto chips, especially as a set? And does anyone have a picture of a dual testing PCB? I have not found these yet.

 

~Short Bus

 

[ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: short bus ]

[Blackjax]

I think he was just talkin about the scans on your page... you got all your games listed, but not all of em scanned.

 

Although with the set of EPROMS, it very well could be an Atari worker's personal stash that he copied from the office, I've heard of that before...

[short bus]

Thank you all for replying. I will try to answer every question and comment.

 

Pitfall, I appreciate your skepticism. Question #1. I was mistaken about Tempest “prototype collection” size. Tempest, I sincerely apologize. I came across a plain text list page and I clearly did not read all the way down. I am no Atari expert and I just learned of this site on Thursday, much less had any idea of this subculture.

 

Question 1b. In regards to referencing the “prototype chips,” I only learned of this word and the definition on Friday. I believe the definition provided by AtariAge is “A pre-production version of a piece of hardware or software. In some cases prototypes were never released, in other cases it is simply an unfinished version of a product later released.”

 

I question myself whether I should consider them or label them prototypes. I believe a more suitable definition would be testing chips. They were used by an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) supplier to test hardware and hardware development.

 

So other than Atari employees who have access to testing and prototype chips, I would say there were hundreds of people at handfuls of companies that tested various hardware and software on and off production lines and quality testing facilities.

 

I was given the set when I was eight years old by an R&D engineer. In 1984 the plant was shut down and that person was laid off. I was given the set post shut down so I would imagine that these items are not stolen, although I do not have a receipt. I have worked at two different manufacturing facilities that were shut down and with reason, if you asked, you got it.

 

Question number 2. I would imagine any supplier company supplying OEM hardware to Atari would have to develop compatible equipment across the board and would have to be tested with any and all companies that have interfacing software. So that would explain the different games and related suppliers.

 

Question number 3. Yes all the chips have the same date. Pitfall Harry, I apologize for referencing them as prototypes. If anything they would be called testing chips. The basis of all your arguments and assumptions come from the basis of the word “prototype” and the standard manufacturing definition of a non-production item. I would clearly call them a non production item, instead of prototypes. In regards to purchasing, I would imagine that would be handled by the purchasing agent who would by them in bulk lots from the respective supplier.

 

Prospectively, I am hoping that some of the games that were used for testing were not all standard released games. Furthermore, the age of the chips indicated that they came from a very early period of the Atari saga and I am hoping that that there are early releases as well.

 

“4. If this was the collection of a former game prototyper…” – Pitfall Harry. I’m really not sure how to reply to this statement. You implied that I at one point in time referenced this concept or that this is a general consensus of the subject at hand. By no means have I ever implied that the collection was from a former game prototyper, much less an Atari employee. The set came from a closed hardware equipment supplier plant.

 

Question number 5: Whether I have can concretely argue that they chips are not from a ROM pirate who did his work a that same time is up to you. I know they came from a closed hardware manufacturer. That is good enough for me. For me to prove that I would need some sort of office documentation on the copy’s but there is not. What I do know is the handwriting is the same that I’ve seen on a bunch of “prototype” stuff. The small white chip labels and handwriting are the same as “prototype,” or should I say, “non-production released” items I’ve seen in collections.

 

Question number six: My parents, whom both have passed, put the box away short after I received it in 1984 because I did not use it. I tested the games in 94 and 99 on a standard woody 2600.

 

Additionally, in reply to questions and comment #6. The set I have are clearly not junk hacks. The PCB’s appear to be standard issue test equipment, literally, brand spankin’ new, yet 20 years old. They are clearly not some modified cartridge. The chips and PCB’s are clearly professionally manufactured.

 

Lastly, if I though the set was an old pirate set, I would obviously not attempt to sell it, but thank you for the reminder. I appreciate the questions and I understand the concerns. As soon as I post pictures, I will post links for respective inspection purposes.

 

Tempest: “I have one of these on my webpage at the bottom of the 2600 page, do your EPROMs look like that?” Don’t worry, no they don’t. Actually, I did not see those until last night when I was on your site. The chips I have look like the ones you have on the other page, the released prototype page. They are just like the Early EPROM Chips except without boards and all small white labels. The handwriting is identical to your Basic Programming and Circus Early EPROMs.

 

Tempest I’d like to apologize. I came up with twenty when I saw a white page with simple text on your site and I just counted your EPROM chips. There were no links and I later found out that these chips were on boards as well. So basically, I had little idea what I was talking about, especially two days ago.

 

Lastly, I’m just getting married, and getting rid of absolutely everything. I came across the box just two days ago and was like “hey, I still have this?” So I jumped online and came across Atari Age. After I did some basic research, I posted a post to see if this set has any equity. I had no idea that it would make such a fuss and all that. I really apologize.

 

~Short Bus

 

[ 07-29-2001: Message edited by: short bus ]

[Tempest]

Don't worry, I wasn't mad at you or anything, I as just curious if my page was loading up wrong or something. If your chips look like the ones I have on my page then they're most likely legit. All the pirate roms I've see are single chips. I don't think it's illegal to sell them BTW, maybe it the strictest sense of the law but these things are over 20 years old. No one would care...

 

I look forward to seeing this auction of yours. I'm always excited to see collections like this. I wish you all the best in your auction, I know I'll be bidding.

 

Tempest

[Tempest]

I probably won't win. I know a few people that would want this kind of thing and they have much better resources than I do.

 

Tempest

[Tempest]

Who knows. Right now I'm in the middle of buying two large prototype collections and I just bought a bunch from Marco on ebay so I've got to be good with money for a bit. I've got to learn I can't buy every prototype I see (although I really want to).

 

BTW, I lost the 5200 Battlezone proto to someone named Badlittledog. Anyone know who this guy is? I'm curious if that proto was any different from the dumped version.

 

Tempest

[Tizoc]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tempest:

Anyone know who this guy is? I'm curious if that proto was any different from the dumped version.

---

 

I see that guy on ebay quite a bit. It looks like he really likes the 5200 stuff. I know he's outbid me a few times. He's got a bunch of 5200 CIB games up for auction right now. Pretty good ones too, like Zaxxon. I was thinking about bidding on some of his auctions; if I win one of his auctions, I'll be sure to ask him about any differences in the battlezone proto.

[jahfish]

just a side note, no attack ...

 

anybody with an eprom burner can produce these chips. and i believe there has been tons of these chips around back then.

 

i know and met quite a lot of people that exchanged their games that way back then, also on various systems (most of them actually c64)

 

 

check my cart and my chips. i know several peopla that have one like that, some loose boards, or just homemade ones like the one pictured here on the site.

 

i guess they don't appear that much only because the pins are so sensible and break up easily.

 

if those would be prototype, i would be a rich guy owning enduro, q-bert, maze craze, threshold, jawbreaker, skiing, open sesame, xman and video pinball. i only heard from one of those titles as proto: enduro

 

still, the test cart is a very nice item to have in your collection. (i was actually happy to be able to check out x-man before i got the cart!

 

btw, some of my chips have not just a sticker over the "window", but an extra uv-protection foil above. that may be an interesting detail for the programmers out there. i bet that's better than just a ticker on top. the sun is more UV-intesive than ever before

 

But after a nice weekend on the countryside, i recommend everybody to shut down your computer and have a break ... get some sun!

[Ze_ro]

quote:

---

Originally posted by short bus:

Question number 2. I would imagine any supplier company supplying OEM hardware to Atari would have to develop compatible equipment across the board and would have to be tested with any and all companies that have interfacing software. So that would explain the different games and related suppliers.

---

 

I'm not sure those kinds of standards existed back then. In fact, Atari didn't want other companies making games in the first place, and actually sued Activision to try and stop them (though they lost that battle). Though I don't have any evidence to support my opinions, I would imagine that Atari had no control whatsoever over what other companies were working on, and probably didn't get to see any of it until it was in the stores.

 

Also, I find it interesting that some of the games are from companies other than Atari, yet are still dated 1977... As far as I know, Activision (the first 3rd party company) didn't even start producing carts until the 80's. My Dragster cart (Activision's first release I believe) is dated 1980, and I doubt it took David Crane 3 years to make it.

 

I'm not accusing you of anything... in fact, I'm not really even interested in prototypes (I don't have the resources to even think of bidding on these)... but I think you may be wrong about the dates on these.

 

--Zero

[mos6507]

An EPROM doesn't really make something a "prototype", even if it's from that era.

 

When I got a tin of raw EPROMs on loan from Imagic's Bob Smith, they contained many non-Imagic titles (mostly Activision). It was apparently commonplace within the industry to pirate titles onto EPROMs for reverse-engineering, or in this case, for testing.

 

Within this tin were also some valid prototypes of Bob's games. Two separate things...

[Tempest]

Very true. I've found EPROM's in production carts before and they're definetly not prototypes. To me a prototype is a Work In Progress version of a game that the programmer dumped on an EPROM to test his code. This may be a narrow definition, but it's the one I go by.

 

Tempest