90 replies to this topic

[Rom Hunter]

Spirantho, on Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:25 AM, said:

Maybe this answers the question of why PAL Pengo is so rare...

Maybe Atari only distributed copies to rental stores, not retail outlets?
This would explain:
a) Why it's so rare (a lot less rental stores)
b) Why there's no box (the rental stores would probably use a card inlay and recycle the rental box)

It's possible Atari did a short production run (it was 1986 after all) and cancelled the release after sending out the rental copies which it may have been contracted to do.

Just supposition, but there must be some reason why PAL Pengo is so rare.

I think you're right, Spirantho.

Although I've never seen anything like it before, the box looks legit too me.

The instructions have more or less the same layout as the French instructions:
http://www.atarimani...amp;NUM_IMAGE=0

Very nice find!

And in excellent condition too.


mibe,

Could you make some nice scans of the box (front & back) and cart?

Would be great.

Also curious about the other boxes.

Edited by Rom Hunter, Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:45 AM.

[jahfish]

about the quality: in those days there hasn't been any cheap scanners & inkjet printers ... this is why the inlays / labels look like proper ones, as doing film repros was to only way to copy an image and print it again ... it was a slightly expensive, but the only way to go. asuming videoboutiken is a chain of video rental doing maybe 50 boxes/carts it's worth the trouble as renting out carts brings in a lot more cash than just selling them ...

remember that asian bootlegs were only printed since the late eighties and even long after atari disapeared on our side of the globe ... some countries only started to have 2600 games and consoles in the late eighties .... this is why some ninetees clones like mine are clearly rescanned products like the space invaders on which you can see a 'moirée' (weird pattern) in the graphic because of scanning at too low resolution and a too cheap scanner. and those a really badly done in most cases ...

we've had a small discussion on the eurocon about it. Jens also has the cart and he's also saying the end label doesn't have the proper atari typography ...

allthough i would accept the idea that atari gave their unreleased PAL code (dumped and tested by Thomas Jentzsch and found to be a proper original Pal code and no hack) out to a single small videorental company (come on, it's still kinda hard to believe), i have trouble with the idea when i hear that activision supposedly did the exact same thing. and all this for a small video rental company from a town that noone ever heard before!?

it's either a unofficial sidedeal with the swedish distribution company (like HES in australia) or just simply what i was thinking in the first place.

there is still the mystery of where that PAL rom comes from as it wasn't advertised or released by Atari anytime, and 1986 is about the time when atari stopped producing any new games .... the PAL version was probably prepared by them but marketing probably didn't sent it out for production. it's possible it surfaced through promotional distribution to magazines when it was still planned for release.

i'm also really curious to see the boxes now ... make one scan as high as possible, so that it's possible to examine the printer dots ... this way we might see if this was printed directly from original artwork on film, or if it is a reproduced print ... just a portion of the front cover in 1200 dpi would be perfect to check ...

and i don't think you have to worry whatever comes out .... you have a great find (so far one of a kind), specially with the story behind these boxes and the additional information. this is what makes certain games or accessoires really special: beiing able to tell what it is and where it comes from, and not beeing a total mystery ...

[Christophero Sly]

PAL Pengo has three label variations, and all are consistent with the label variations produced for other titles during the "Atari, Corp." era.  I highly doubt anyone bootlegging the game would have invested the time and put forth the effort to produce all three variants.

stab was kind enough to give me a heads up on one of these labels in an Australian auction last month, but I got sidetracked and forgot to bid.

Edited by Christophero Sly, Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:58 PM.

[jahfish]

Christophero Sly, on Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:57 PM, said:

PAL Pengo has three label variations, and all are consistent with the label variations produced for other titles during the "Atari, Corp." era.  I highly doubt anyone bootlegging the game would have invested the time and put forth the effort to produce all three variants.

but then they haven't been doing black labels since the early eighties .... why would they rerelease a silver label game in 1986 or 1987 with a black label ... basicaly the last years any games came out while the rerelease had silver or red labels ...

it is also a joystick game that has "use with paddle controller" on it's label ... on all of them! would atari make the same mistake again?

atari carts usually had the logo AND the brand name on the right bottom:

  

and even with a different typo for the controller info when they were rereleased with black labels in 1986/87



talking a closer look at the scans on AM seems to show that one looks pretty authentic. although havin this displaced uncontinuous frame in its design:



while this one still has the mistake with the paddles (hidden behind a sticker)



and that is corrected again here on the 87 version:




what else is bugging me?

- am i the only one that sees a clean atari logo on the pele cart, but pengo carts on which the fuji logo is kind of melting together?

- cooper black typo for the number (which seems pretty big in size) and game name .... have i (or you) seen this on any other atari cart? maybe i'm getting old and forget things ...

anyway ... fishlock holmes need some sleep now  

Edited by jahfish, Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:45 PM.

[Rom Hunter]

Jahfish,

I noticed these differences too, but I find it hard to believe that some bootleg company released three different label versions of this game.

It's a strange looking cart indeed, but then again:
http://www.atarimani...amp;NUM_IMAGE=0

Also released by Atari.

[Spirantho]

Looking at my PAL Pengo there's no doubt in my mind it's kosher.

For starters, it's too good a label for most pirates, which are very different quite often.
Secondly, the end label is identical to silver label Atari games of the era.
Thirdly, PAL Atari games were being produced in black label versions in 1986 - the re-releases in grey boxes were all black labels weren't they, and wasn't that 1986? I've got Atari carts up to 1991 with black labels (Missile Command)
Fourthly, if Atari were expecting a low production run, they'd very likely use the black labels as those foil labels can't have been as cheap to produce.

I'm sure they're genuine all right. And I'm not just saying that to keep the value of my Pengo up.

[jahfish]

Rom Hunter, on Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:55 AM, said:

I noticed these differences too, but I find it hard to believe that some bootleg company released three different label versions of this game.

u mean like bitcorp did 4 or 5 different versions of phantom tank  

anyway i'll also wait to see the other boxes ....

[Jobf]

Spirantho, on Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:25 AM, said:

Maybe this answers the question of why PAL Pengo is so rare...

Maybe Atari only distributed copies to rental stores, not retail outlets?
This would explain:
a) Why it's so rare (a lot less rental stores)
b) Why there's no box (the rental stores would probably use a card inlay and recycle the rental box)

It's possible Atari did a short production run (it was 1986 after all) and cancelled the release after sending out the rental copies which it may have been contracted to do.

Just supposition, but there must be some reason why PAL Pengo is so rare.

Chris Hind, a UK 2600 collector, bought most of his carts at the time, back in the day. He remembers seeing PAL Pengo for sale at Silica shop in London. He didn't have enough cash, and bought some other games. Next time he went back, they were out of stock never to have any again.

No idea about the box. I should contact him again to see if he remembers any other details.

Edited by Jobf, Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:54 AM.

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

Jobf, on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:51 PM, said:

Chris Hind, a UK 2600 collector, bought most of his carts at the time, back in the day. He remembers seeing PAL Pengo for sale at Silica shop in London. He didn't have enough cash, and bought some other games. Next time he went back, they were out of stock never to have any again.

No idea about the box. I should contact him again to see if he remembers any other details.

Ask him about the box, Steve! I think that is the biggest riddle!

[Dino]

Jobf, on Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:51 AM, said:

Spirantho, on Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:25 AM, said:

Maybe this answers the question of why PAL Pengo is so rare...

Maybe Atari only distributed copies to rental stores, not retail outlets?
This would explain:
a) Why it's so rare (a lot less rental stores)
b) Why there's no box (the rental stores would probably use a card inlay and recycle the rental box)

It's possible Atari did a short production run (it was 1986 after all) and cancelled the release after sending out the rental copies which it may have been contracted to do.

Just supposition, but there must be some reason why PAL Pengo is so rare.

Chris Hind, a UK 2600 collector, bought most of his carts at the time, back in the day. He remembers seeing PAL Pengo for sale at Silica shop in London. He didn't have enough cash, and bought some other games. Next time he went back, they were out of stock never to have any again.

No idea about the box. I should contact him again to see if he remembers any other details.

That's the story i referred to in my post above. I couldn't remember which collector it was or the country, but i remember that the boxes were silver label.

This lends weight to the fact that this cart is legit...

Edited by Dino, Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:31 PM.

[jahfish]

so what's the deal with the other pictures? show us the activision boxes  

[Dino]

jahfish, on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:42 AM, said:

so what's the deal with the other pictures? show us the activision boxes  

good point. That would go a long way to shedding light on this mystery...

[jahfish]

Dino, on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:35 AM, said:

jahfish, on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:42 AM, said:

so what's the deal with the other pictures? show us the activision boxes  

good point. That would go a long way to shedding light on this mystery...

i guess the scans won't come and pengo will remain a mystery ... or a bootleg?  

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...tem290268873951

more rental boxes on ebay.uk ...

[Dino]

jahfish, on Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:43 PM, said:

Dino, on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:35 AM, said:

jahfish, on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:42 AM, said:

so what's the deal with the other pictures? show us the activision boxes  

good point. That would go a long way to shedding light on this mystery...

i guess the scans won't come and pengo will remain a mystery ... or a bootleg?  

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...tem290268873951

more rental boxes on ebay.uk ...

I saw those. they are quite common actually. But the pengo is different - it isn't merely the box put into a VHS style rental box.  whether its a bootleg remains to be seen....

[ginnidog]

I also have a loose Pengo cart ( Silver label ) 1984

NTSC or PAL - ??  I dont know

Paulie

[Crazy Climber]

ginnidog, on Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:01 AM, said:

I also have a loose Pengo cart ( Silver label ) 1984

NTSC or PAL - ??  I dont know

Paulie

The silver label version is much easier to find. They are talking about the crazy rare black label version

[ginnidog]

HEHEHEHE.. the dreaded crazy black version      

I know a few people like that too   hahahaha  

Well, atleast i have a Pengo cart in my massive collection..

Paulie

[Rom Hunter]

ginnidog, on Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:01 PM, said:

I also have a loose Pengo cart ( Silver label ) 1984

NTSC or PAL - ??  I dont know

NTSC
http://www.atarimani...?...1872&MENU=2

[Rom Hunter]

jahfish, on Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:43 AM, said:

i guess the scans won't come and pengo will remain a mystery ... or a bootleg?  

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...tem290268873951

more rental boxes on ebay.uk ...

Cut out boxes.

Pengo is different.

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

Rom Hunter, on Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:50 PM, said:

jahfish, on Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:43 AM, said:

i guess the scans won't come and pengo will remain a mystery ... or a bootleg?  

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...tem290268873951

more rental boxes on ebay.uk ...

Cut out boxes.

Pengo is different.

I bet that Jah is aware of that, Rom!

[Dino]

So how do the experts call this one? Bootleg or not??

[Rom Hunter]

The problem is that most 'experts' haven't seen this one before.

IMO it looks like there has been put too much work into it to make it a bootleg.

[jahfish]

Rom Hunter, on Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:47 AM, said:

The problem is that most 'experts' haven't seen this one before.

IMO it looks like there has been put too much work into it to make it a bootleg.

too much work? it's just the artwork copied and resized (if at all) and then some black and white instructions on the back... for that you only need a scanner (yes, they existed back then, it just took a lot longer with drum- and 3-pass scanners) or someone doing photographic reproductions ...

i simply see the difference as being a european bootleg ... while asian bootlegs are usually cheaply produced and the maker wont care much of what's on the label, european will simply put more effort in making such an inlay ... specially if they plan to have it in their store for rental, something that generates more cash than just selling a game ...

i bet the activision boxes look the same of the back

The atari vcs was distributed in sweden through Algavision and afaik atari never had an official office there, plus the nintendo console blew atari completely away in the mid-eighties ... so i have a hard time to imagine that atari would produce swedish-only boxes for the swedish market in 86 or 87 ....

[Christophero Sly]

Why would any bootlegger bother to print the error label and then invest the time, effort, and expense it takes to cover it up with a black strip of tape?   Moreover, why would a bootlegger bother to produce 3 label variations for this one, mimicking exactly the pattern of variations Atari would have produced anyway--first the error, then a tape strip to cover up the error, and, finally, the removal of the "use with xxx controller" information altogether.  What reason would a bootlegger have to do such a thing?

Given all the oddities that are commonplace among the Atari, Corp. labels, I see nothing about these carts that stands out enough to suggest that they aren't legitimate Atari, Corp. releases.

The principle of parsimony strongly favors the explanation that these are legitimate Atari, Corp. releases.

[pangasinan]

I own a PAL Pengo