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Anyone else notice 2600 Wings Proto found at DigitPress?


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#1 Godzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 8:46 PM

I was just reading about this and was very excited. They even have an ad which has gameplay footage in it. They say they will be releasing the cart and that they have even more unreleased atari games up their sleves! Tempest would be so jealous :-) Anyway, just amazed to finally one of the great 'hey where's that, we know it's out there!' protos finally surface.

#2 Godzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 8:49 PM

sleeves & to finally (see)

damn no edit! :-P

#3 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:05 PM

Yes I saw that. I didn't see the part about them releasing it though, they only said it would be on display.

But there's yet another surprise. We've also discovered the GAME! Wings is completely playable and will be available for play at Classic Gaming Expo 2004 next month.


However since the last 2 years worth of CGE roms have still not been released to the public (except for those who were willing to buy them), I won't hold my breath about Wings...


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#4 SS OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:11 PM

They say they will be releasing the cart


It will be on display at CGE, we haven't figured out what we're going to do with it after that. Hopefully I can convince my partners to release the ROM.


Well DP (Joe ???) doesn't exactly say that they'll be releasing it in cart form, only that he hopes to release the ROM at some point. My understanding is that it would be pretty difficult to do a large release of a RAM PLUS game on cart.

#5 Brad2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:13 PM

Yes I saw that.  I didn't see the part about them releasing it though, they only said it would be on display.  

But there's yet another surprise. We've also discovered the GAME! Wings is completely playable and will be available for play at Classic Gaming Expo 2004 next month.


However since the last 2 years worth of CGE roms have still not been released to the public (except for those who were willing to buy them), I won't hold my breath about Wings...


Tempest


Does it sound like a case of rom hoarding, there?

Seriously, they should release the roms to the public. What's the point of hoarding them? Classic gaming fans suffer when they hoard roms of games like Wings.

#6 Godzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:28 PM

"Hopefully I can convince my partners to release the ROM. We've got a few other previously unreleased games as well, details coming soon."

and yea, I noticed the 'on display' thing. It's funny how my memory turned that into 'available for me to snag!' must be years of pent up desire! :x :love: :lust:

#7 SS OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:29 PM

they should release the roms to the public. What's the point of hoarding them?


They haven't been hoarding them. Just not releasing the ROMS initially. DP has been releasing the games in cart form (with boxes and instructions) for the past few years. They have been available to anyone who wants to purchase them. I have a few : Crack'ed, Looping, and Pick Up. They have also released ROMs in the past once the cartridges have been totally sold (ie - Elevator Action). I think that they felt (rightfully) burned when the 2002 releases were dumped and leaked by someone not connected to DP.

#8 Godzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:35 PM

Ahhh, I didn't know that happened... that's a shame. But understandable when dealing with denizens of the underworld. I hope they weren't so burned as to let that affect their ability to see the big picture and not make one persons mistake hurt everyone.

#9 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:50 PM

I think that they felt (rightfully) burned when the 2002 releases were dumped and leaked by someone not connected to DP.


I never heard anything about that, and I don't see them as being available on any website either (although I'm only looking at legit sites). However just because someone dumped the roms in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't release the others. If you notice every AA release has had the rom released simultaneously with the cart version and it did not affect sales (I assume that is what they're afraid of). Meltdown will be no different, as I do not believe in hording roms. I have proudly released the roms to all my unreleased prototypes.

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#10 Godzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 9:56 PM

Sniff! :_( If only everyone with prototypes was as cool as Tempest! Then this wouldn't even be an issue. I think everyone should use Tempest as an example for how it's done. That and he has a NiGHTS avatar! I love NiGHTS.

#11 SS OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:02 PM

I have proudly released the roms to all my unreleased prototypes.  


ALL? :ponder: :P Just kidding! I know the issues involved with some of them.


I never heard anything about that, and I don't see them as being available on any website either (although I'm only looking at legit sites).


You had to be quick. They got posted here but got taken down swiftly. I know that I have seen them on a site or two since that time.


However just because someone dumped the roms in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't release the others.


I agree. Still, I think that DP should be able to do what they want to with the protos that they purchase. If that includes trying to recoup some of the purchase price by selling copies, so be it. I can then choose whether or not to purchase them.


If you notice every AA release has had the rom released simultaneously with the cart version and it did not affect sales (I assume that is what they're afraid of).


Agreed again. In fact, I would argue that releasing the ROMs often stimulates sales of the actual carts. Still, IMHO, it's DPs choice.

#12 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:09 PM

You had to be quick.  They got posted here but got taken down swiftly.  I know that I have seen them on a site or two since that time.


No, they weren't, want the link to the post? :ponder:

#13 Godzilla OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:14 PM

BTW I just want to say here and now, once and for all, that I am against rom hoarding. But I'm all for rom whoring. The world needs more whoring, it owns up to the capitalist drive of our modern world.

#14 SS OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:15 PM

No, they weren't, want the link to the post?  :ponder:


:ponder: I would have SWORN!

I don't need the link. I own two of the carts and the third game simply sucks! :wink:

I do wish that I had access to a ROM for "Looping", though. I own that cart as well but I'd like to have it on my CC2.

#15 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:17 PM

Still, I think that DP should be able to do what they want to with the protos that they purchase. If that includes trying to recoup some of the purchase price by selling copies, so be it. I can then choose whether or not to purchase them.


Oh I agree. It's their prototype, they can do what they want.

Here's to hoping they release some of those roms someday (fingers crossed)

Tempest

#16 Nathan Strum OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:42 PM

What other ROMs have they not released publicly?

#17 SS OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:45 PM

What other ROMs have they not released publicly?


"Crack'ed", "Pick Up", and "Save The Whales" from CGE 2002

"Rush Hour", "Looping", and "Entity" from CGE 2003

Am I missing any?

#18 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 4, 2004 10:50 PM

What other ROMs have they not released publicly?


2600
-------
Crack'ed
Save The Whales
Pick Up
Rush Hour
Looping
Entity
Look Ahead
Underworld (may still be on a Commavid development tape)

7800
------
Missing in Action
Sirius
Plutos
Sky Fox demo

400/800
---------
Lifespan
Da Fuzz

There are a few others I can't remember at the moment.

Tempest

#19 mos6507 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 5, 2004 2:06 AM

Seriously, they should release the roms to the public. What's the point of hoarding them? Classic gaming fans suffer when they hoard roms of games like Wings.


They use these things as a way to hype the convention so people buy tickets.

They also have said they have to do it this way to recoup the extortion fees they are willing to pay to get copies of these games from the owners.

One can assume that any prototypes heretofore unknown to exist are already within their private possession or somehow in the pipeline for future release. The protos that AtariAge released were an exception to the rule and I hear that there was a little rivalry over AA getting those out there instead of via CGE.

So they do seem to want to make themselves the only channel for these things coming out.

Interpret that as you will.

#20 mos6507 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 5, 2004 2:34 AM

I think that they felt (rightfully) burned when the 2002 releases were dumped and leaked by someone not connected to DP.


Well, legally speaking they have no right to release the cartridges in the first place. They have no copyright control over the ROM images unlike someone like an Intellivision Productions who could cry foul over ROM images of Sea Battle and Swordfight showing up. Same deal with those who rerelease a title via an official licensing arrangement with the copyright holders (such as the Stella CD).

When Snow White was released it was a double whammy because they were using the Disney graphics on the box. Infogrames may not care, but Disney is highly protective of how their character images are used. I highly doubt clearance was given for that cartridge from Disney.

(It should be noted that prior to Snow White's release, the game was merely displayed under glass at previous conventions. Hardly a fitting way to showcase a game of historical significance, whereas Intellivision Productions has had monitors up and running games they released and games they can't release like Rocky and Bullwinkle due to issues that should have been equally binding to Snow White.)

Anyway, they can do what they want as long as they don't get caught. Be my guest. But releasing a cartridge, as fun this may be for the community, doesn't mean you can go around acting like you are entitled to control distribution of a ROM image that you never had the copyright for.

By attempting to keep these ROM images off the net it's essentially them positioning themselves as the protector of copyright controls (think DRM) when they have no right to play cop in this way to begin with.

Also bear in mind that in most cases there exists MORE THAN ONE COPY of a given prototype in the world. Sometimes it takes a while for another to show up, but it happens.

They can only maintain this artificial control as long as only one copy of the game is known to exist (with no ROM image floating around prior to their lockdown). If another copy shows up in the hands of someone who has no reservations about dumping it and putting it online, I see no reason why he should feel compelled to hold back just to allow them to be able to commercially market a cartridge at some future date.

Basically what I'm saying is, don't expect any honor among thieves.

#21 NovaXpress OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 5, 2004 3:31 AM

Crack'ed  
Save The Whales  
Pick Up  
Rush Hour  
Looping  
Entity  
Look Ahead  
Underworld (may still be on a Commavid development tape)

I have half of those in my Z26 folder, now I'm wondering where the hell I got them.

If someone did wish to dump their purchased Looping repro and dump it or post it, the owners couldn't do a damn thing about it. They own the physical object but not the code which it contains. So really what's to stop the fans from dumping and distributing such games themselves?

#22 Mayhem OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 5, 2004 5:35 AM

You had to be quick.  They got posted here but got taken down swiftly.  I know that I have seen them on a site or two since that time.


No, they weren't, want the link to the post? :ponder:


I must admit I was surprised to still see it on here whilst searching about for ROMs for the CC2 a couple of months back. Trust me, the zip file for the CGE2K2 carts is still very much present and correct as CPUwiz says.

If you notice every AA release has had the rom released simultaneously with the cart version


Erm... Power Off? :P

Yeah I know I'm being a pedant but I figured I'd say it heh... unless of course you just mean solely through AA, to which I can think of a few that I had to ask people here for because I couldn't find them on this site or elsewhere...

#23 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 5, 2004 6:26 AM

If you notice every AA release has had the rom released simultaneously with the cart version


Erm... Power Off? :P


Power Off is very much different from the other games that have been mentioned in this thread, because it is an original homebrew game and not a prototype. Several homebrew authors have decided not to release the binaries to their games, and it is very much within their right to do so. I would love to see all the authors share their binaries so people can enjoy the games via emulators, but not all feel the same way as me. :)

And please keep in mind that we have released the binaries to MANY prototypes for which we have not made cartridges of. This includes games that we obtained ourselves as well as games that others (such as Matt) were kind enough to allow us to release on AtariAge. Here is a quick list of prototypes made available initially through AtariAge:

- Blaster (5200 / 8-bit)
- Labyrinth (2600)
- GATO Demo (7800)
- Red vs. Blue Demo (2600)
- Dune (2600)
- Menu Proto (5200)
- Funky Fish (2600)
- Pleiades (2600)
- Mind Maze (2600)
- Alligator People (2600)
- McDonalds (2600)
- Snow White (2600)
- Lord of the Rings (2600)
- Thwocker (2600)
- Kabobber (2600)

I may have missed some others, as I just searched through our news archive for "proto" to come up with the above list. There were also games released back on the 2600 Nexus as well, although I don't have an easy way to search through the news on that site.

..Al

#24 NovaXpress OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 5, 2004 6:55 AM

When it comes to getting games into the hands of the gamers, no one cares more than AtariAge. That's why I respect them more than anyone else in the classic gaming biz.

#25 Mayhem OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 5, 2004 9:48 AM

Power Off is very much different from the other games that have been mentioned in this thread, because it is an original homebrew game and not a prototype.


This is pretty much what I thought Matt was getting at, but as he just said "AA release", it could quite easily be interpreted as anything put out for sale through the AA store, including original homebrews and hacks. Hence my statement about being a pedant ;)

Now if the Ebivision guys could actually make PAL versions of their games, I'd take one from the store, but due to the unpredictable nature of NTSC games on a PAL machine, then the only real way I'd buy one is if I could test it through my CC2 beforehand. And that means needing the ROM :|




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