Can Marble Man ever be released?

[Avid Fan]

For a while I thought that maybe it would come out on MAC2, but it isnt. I know there are rights issues so the ROM cant be released, but do you think we'll ever see it on a compilation disc or anything? Can we see it on a compilation, or do the rights issues come into affect?

 

I really really wanna play this game

[Atariboy]

What's MAC2?

[Jess Ragan]

Midway Arcade Classics 2?

 

JR

[Tempest]

Maybe they felt it was unfinished or didn't play well enough to be included. Remember there was a reason they didn't release it in the first place.

 

Tempest

[Greg2600]

http://www.safestuff.com/marbleman.htm

 

So it's been like 10 years since this fellow got a working Marble Man: Marble Madness II game going. Still not released, probably never will be.

[darthkur]

That's sad though After all of the effort that guy did to track everything down and get a working machine only to still have it "unavailable" to the rest of the world. It would have taken very little to upload the rom somewhere.......anywhere, anonymously or whatever. I certainly would have. Otherwise it's yet another rare game being horded in some private collection which is, far as I'm concerned, unacceptable bullshit. And before anyone mentions it, no I don't give half a damn about I.P. or © or any other capitalist garbage as an excuse.

[Tempest]

Otherwise it's yet another rare game being horded in some private collection which is, far as I'm concerned, unacceptable bullshit. And before anyone mentions it, no I don't give half a damn about I.P. or © or any other capitalist garbage as an excuse.

Why is that? He paid the big bucks to get his hands on that game, why should he give it away for free? Because you want him to?

 

It would have taken very little to upload the rom somewhere.......anywhere, anonymously or whatever. I certainly would have

You know a lot of people say that, but odds are if they were put in a similar situation they wouldn't give it away for free either. It's like saying "If I were a millionaire *I'd* give my money away for free and not horde it like all those jerks". It's easy to say when you don't have a million dollars and no one expects you to do anything.

[darthkur]

Why is that? He paid the big bucks to get his hands on that game, why should he give it away for free? Because you want him to?

 

 

You know a lot of people say that, but odds are if they were put in a similar situation they wouldn't give it away for free either. It's like saying "If I were a millionaire *I'd* give my money away for free and not horde it like all those jerks". It's easy to say when you don't have a million dollars and no one expects you to do anything.

 

 

Why? Because it's the kind thing to do for the community. Yes, I would most definitely do so in his place. I don't concern myself nor base my life upon capital gain. Anything I obtain that I can make a copy of and distribute among the community and friends I do so.

We have people right here in our own community that go to great efforts, such as Bob DeCrescenzo and Ken Siders that are more than happy to free share the fruits of their labor. If people on this planet had attitudes more like theirs than the previously mentioned archetype, life on this rock would be incomparably better than it is now with the corporate elite's vile stranglehold around everyone's throats. Gene Roddenberry had a much better view of a possible future. I'd like to think it has a chance of occurring.

[jaybird3rd]

I'd like to see it released someday, but if the owner isn't willing to do it, then of course we can't force him to. I'm more concerned about bit rot than anything else: if the only copy of that game software is inside the EPROMs in those few existing cabinets, it should definitely be dumped for archival purposes.

[goldenegg]

Otherwise it's yet another rare game being horded in some private collection which is, far as I'm concerned, unacceptable bullshit.

 

Why are you automatically jumping to the conclusion that he's hoarding the game? Has anyone actually approached him to dump it? Maybe he has no idea how to do it himself and is not part of the ROM scene. Even if he wants money for it, there are plenty of people who would be willing to pay.

 

If I ever got a rare cabinet, I wouldn't know where to start regarding having it dumped. I happen to know enough people in the MAME scene to get it done, but not everyone has that luxury.

[Greg2600]

I'd like to see it released someday, but if the owner isn't willing to do it, then of course we can't force him to. I'm more concerned about bit rot than anything else: if the only copy of that game software is inside the EPROMs in those few existing cabinets, it should definitely be dumped for archival purposes.

 

I read somewhere else that the guy with the full cabinet setup has soft copies of it, as does the guy with the source of the game. So I don't think it will be lost.

 

Why are you automatically jumping to the conclusion that he's hoarding the game? Has anyone actually approached him to dump it? Maybe he has no idea how to do it himself and is not part of the ROM scene. Even if he wants money for it, there are plenty of people who would be willing to pay.

 

If I ever got a rare cabinet, I wouldn't know where to start regarding having it dumped. I happen to know enough people in the MAME scene to get it done, but not everyone has that luxury.

 

In my googling, I saw a long ago discussion that the rom had been dumped. The guy who made that webpage said he agreed not to release it, in exchange for getting the parts/software to complete his cabinet. It's really the other anonymous guys that won't do so, why I can't fathom? Alone they really don't have materials of high value. It sounds more like they may have designed the game, and hate it for some reason!

Edited August 20, 2013 by Greg2600

[jhd]

Copyright and public release issues aside, what is the official status of this game? I was under the impression that it was just an internal prototype, but there exist marquees, control panels, and even side art. Did it get a limited, test-market release?

[Greg2600]

http://www.safestuff.com/mmstory.htm

 

That was his story from the start. Basically he found/borrowed a bunch of prototype materials. Eventually in 2002 he found the controller artwork, and converted his cabinet to 3 trackballs. Essentially he had an original board, but he burned, soldered, and built everything else from contemporary parts. There is an individual with a complete cabinet who wishes to be anonymous.

 

My purpose in digging this up is that while this fellow may have been sworn not to release anything, it's well over a decade since. Atari is long gone, there's nobody left to come after him. The owners of the full cabinet and full board refused to sell, so releasing the rom does little to damage their prototype values, since they are NOT selling.

 

I just wanted to shake the tree and see if anybody knew this guy, and whether he would now be willing to release the rom?

[jhd]

I read that article, but I don't understand why a prototype would have multiple sets of artwork, etc. competed. If it was just for testing, etc. then a generic cabinet would have been adequate.

 

In other words, how close was Atari to releasing the game, and why was it never released as an original arcade game BITD?

 

The current owners of the remaining examples may be completely unwilling to sell, but just wait them out -- the odds are good that are that they are all much older than you are, and their heirs may be more willing to sell (or release the software) than they are.

[Tempest]

I thought I read somewhere that it did indeed go out for location testing and that's why they went from the original joystick design to the trackball design (the joysticks got broken too easily). There's more than one article about this out there, I wish I knew where that other one was.

[deadyourinstinct]

If he really wants almost $50,000 for the rom, we should start a kickstarter and get it paid for and released to the public.

[+x=usr(1536)]

If he really wants almost $50,000 for the rom, we should start a kickstarter and get it paid for and released to the public.

 

Where is this $50K figure coming from? That's something I've never heard of in conjunction with this ROM dump.

 

Incidentally, I got to play the Marble Man that was brought to CA Extreme in 2000. While it was great that it made an appearance and I certainly appreciate having had the opportunity to play it, it's just not that great of a game. Not terrible by any means, but it's understandable once you play it as to why it wasn't green-lighted for production.

 

And if anyone has any fears as to whether or not the ROM dumps are still preserved... They are, and are not likely to be lost.

[H.E.R.O.]

Oh Lord, Marble Man 2 discussion in 2018.

 

Back in those days, one of the arcade newsgroups were in contact with the guy & he said he'd release the roms for 50k, I believe. The newsgroup, pre Kickstarter or anything like that, were up to the high 20's that day via promise to kick in then the guy upped the price to something insane so it fell thorough after that obviously. He had Bradley Trainer under wraps as well but that eventually got released to little or no fanfare. I'm not sure anyone even cares about Marble Man 2 anymore. The screenshots make it look cool but, as stated, heard it was a turd.

[Eltigro]

Marble Man sounds like someone who should be locked up in Arkham and never released.

[Trebor]

If he really wants almost $50,000 for the rom, we should start a kickstarter and get it paid for and released to the public.

 

Is that you, Scott? j/k

 

Especially considering relatively recent past behavior*, a Kickstarter with the possibility of him making off with the money and not releasing a thing, is probably a really bad idea. Kickstarter does not issue refunds.

 

As far as this hobby is concerned, $50,000 is likely better spent on obtaining PCBs that have not been acquired and dumped yet. Not on ones that have already been dumped/preserved, but the possessor of the ROMs chooses to keep them private or hold them for 'ransom'; if that is, or will ever be, the case, and for whatever reason(s).

 

...it's just not that great of a game...

I have read and heard the same for those who have played it (When the machine is present at CAX). The above would be considered one of the nicer statements made concerning it. The game is nowhere near as fun or polished respecting gameplay balance as the original. There's too much going on, and the joysticks over trackball is a mismatch for the game.

 

Nevertheless, while it would be nice to have it available and easily accessible to the public, particularly to those who have a strong interest and passion towards the industry, it is certainly the owner's prerogative and right to hold on to the ROMs privately, despite disagreeing with that position in this case and wishing differently.

 

*"...past behavior..."

 

02/12/16 07:21 PM - For any of you who think that Scott "Safestuff" Evans is still throwing straight dice and might some day release Marble Man, despite it having been literally years since he's contributed anything to any MAME developer, get this: Apparently he posted an auction on eBay for a Batman arcade PCB, using a photo of a clearly prototype board, to artificially drive up prices. He then sent the winner of the auction a standard retail Batman board, then gave some lame excuse of "Oh, I sold that board already, it must have been an old picture".

 

Although this transpired on a private e-mail list, I feel the behavior is unconscionable enough that it should be called out publicly.

 

SOURCE: http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=350203

 

 

[80s_Atari_Guy]

 

 

it's just not that great of a game

 

To be honest, I don't think that matters to those who just want to try it.

I, like many, remember the history of this and the original, and would love to play it in MAME, regardless of how good or bad it was.

 

I don't think releasing the roms would diminish the value of the roms themselves, or the actual machine, because there will still be only those 2 in existence. And, any attempt to make a reproduction machine would still be just that, a copy.

I mean, does having copies of rare one-off Van Gogh paintings diminish the value of the original ? Of course not. Now imagine if super-rich owners of rare paintings didn't loan them to galleries, or used the courts to stop copies and posters from being made. Nobody would ever get to see "The Starry Night", "Sunflowers", or a self-portrait.

And what happens if the owner passes away ? Do they goto family, or another private collector ?

[+x=usr(1536)]

Oh Lord, Marble Man 2 discussion in 2018.

Seriously. Hearing that El Fin Del Tiempo had been found was a much more relevant (and interesting) discovery to me; it was believed lost, whereas we know exactly where Marble Man is.

 

Back in those days, one of the arcade newsgroups were in contact with the guy & he said he'd release the roms for 50k, I believe. The newsgroup, pre Kickstarter or anything like that, were up to the high 20's that day via promise to kick in then the guy upped the price to something insane so it fell thorough after that obviously.

OK, that's actually jogging my memory a bit. I'll go see if I can't dig it out of RGVAC later this evening.

[negative1]

The game was shown at florida at freeplay.

 

Wonder if its the same machine from the same guy. Probably.

 

later

-1

[TheCoolDave]

I didn't even know this thread was here. I am a die hard Marble Madness fan. I even have the Marble Madness coin op machine. It's been a dream to play part 2, Marble Man.

 

I wish they would release the rom, even though I have also heard it's not that great of a game. AT least if they released a rom, someone would figure out how to play it with a trackball, like the game should of been designed to do.

[Atariboy]

I'm not sure holding a rom dump in your private possession counts as being preserved.

 

While my degrees are in business administration, my hobbies all basically center around history. And when I hear that word, to me at least it implies certain things like some form of access by the public and a plan for the future to ensure its survival for future generations. Maybe those with a degree in the field may disagree, but then again maybe they wouldn't.

 

I'm glad he has rom dumps since maybe things may change in the future. But just like if Gone With the Wind had had all 35 mm prints, negatives, and so on destroyed after its release in December of 1939 except for one print that was squirreled away in some South American millionaire's mansion on a mountaintop for the last 79 years, I'd hardly call it preserved.

 

That all said, these physical boards are someone else's property and while I may not like it, I do respect their right to not release it. And by the same token, I hope nobody ever pays ransom for a rom dump release. The physical components may belong to the owner of these boards (Or is it owners?), but I very much doubt they own the copyright.

 

It's okay in my book for someone to release a console rom via a run of reproduction cartridges, since I see it as you're paying for the effort invested to burn eproms, assemble cartridges, have boxes and labels printed, mail packages, etc. But not to have someone spend 10 seconds hitting "attach this file" at AtariAge and pointing the forum software to a zip file on their desktop to release a file that isn't even their property once it was extracted from the chip it resided on.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Atariboy