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I toasted a JAG last night


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#1 Hyper_Eye OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 1, 2004 1:57 AM

I have a very large entertainment center and a lot of consoles. I was setting up one side of my entertainment center (bought a new house). I accidentally sent the NES AC up and the Jag down when I should have done the opposite. I set the Jag on its shelf and plugged it in. I powered it up to test it and no light. Hrm... I looked behind the center to check the surge strip and make sure it was on. Then I smelled something. I spent a second checking the surge strip to make sure the smell wasn't coming from it. Then I saw a puff of smoke go by my face. I quickly unplugged the surge strip. By the time I got around to the front and looked at the Jaguar smoke was billowing from it. What a horrible smell. So... that thing is toast. With that much smoke coming from it and that smell I highly doubt it is repairable. That leaves me with one working Jag and twon non-working. Both non-working Jags went the same way though the first wasn't near as bad. What a horrible design flaw on the part of Atari. They should have at least made the plug non-uniform to the other consoles (NES, SNES, Genesis, etc.)

#2 Stephen Moss OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 1, 2004 3:22 AM

What a horrible design flaw on the part of Atari. They should have at least made the plug non-uniform to the other consoles (NES, SNES, Genesis, etc.)


This is at least the third post I have seen here where this has happened, although I think its a little unfair to blame Atari for your mistake.
The Jaguar uses a standard DC power Jack for the power supply which is why it is compatable with the other systems (although I think the polarity is back to front), although several different sizes do exist most manufacturs use the standard size (IIRC 2.5mm).

I have said it before and will say it again if you have a large collection of games systems or other items that all use the same power connector MARK YOU CONNECTORS PEOPLE so that you know which unit they plug into or suffer the consequences.
Coloured electrical tape around the gripable part of the connetor which can then be written on is one solution, different coloured heatshrink sleeveng is another.

#3 Han OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 1, 2004 5:02 AM

The smell and smoke probably comes from a toasted capacitor. They really smell funky when toasted :D and produced a lot of smoke. So its not like everything inside is toasted, if you are really lucky it is only a capacitor.

#4 Hyper_Eye OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 1, 2004 9:56 AM

I am very much aware of the possibility of killing a jag with other consoles power supplies. I look at them very carefully anytime I plug them in. I was just tired from moving and as I said... I accidentally went up with the wrong adapter.

I disagree with you on the idea that I should not blame Atari. At the time the Jaguar came out the Genesis and SNES were out and NES was still in a lot of homes. These consoles all used adapters with the same plug but reverse polarity from the Jag. I would say that it is extremely likely that people would make this mistake. Some people would accidentally use the wrong adapter and then there are people who will try to use another consoles adapter due to losing the Jags. You can do this with the other consoles without a problem. Atari should have thought of this and changed their design. It is sad how many Jags have gone this way,

#5 Mitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 1, 2004 11:00 AM

I guess you'll have to blame Sega too. The Sega Master System and original Genesis used the same power supply as the Jag. Any of these three will also power an NES. So get rid of your NES power supply and get a cheap Genesis 1 power supply to replace it. Then you won't fry any more Jags. :)

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#6 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 2, 2004 11:13 AM

I am very much aware of the possibility of killing a jag with other consoles power supplies. I look at them very carefully anytime I plug them in. I was just tired from moving and as I said... I accidentally went up with the wrong adapter.

I disagree with you on the idea that I should not blame Atari. At the time the Jaguar came out the Genesis and SNES were out and NES was still in a lot of homes. These consoles all used adapters with the same plug but reverse polarity from the Jag. I would say that it is extremely likely that people would make this mistake.


Thats the same mentality that has led to manufacturers of things stating the obvious. Like bags of peanuts that have "Contains nuts" on the side to stop people with nut allergies eating them and then suing the manufacturer.

Sorry it's your fault.

They could have gone the route of crazy power connectors but then there is the problem of what happens when your power supply dies? you have to hunt for an exact match, also some of the crazy plug designs mean a weaker less robust plug so they wear quicker.

The answer is be careful when plugging stuff together, don't just plug stuff together and then blame the manufacturer when it goes bang.

#7 Hyper_Eye OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 2:35 AM

Thats the same mentality that has led to manufacturers of things stating the obvious.  Like bags of peanuts that have "Contains nuts" on the side to stop people with nut allergies eating them and then suing the manufacturer.


That is an absurd comparison. We are talking about a system that is expected to be connected to a television. Televisons frequently have more then one system connected to them. They made the plug exactly the same as other systems of the time despite the fact that those system's plugs will destroy the Jaguar if accidentally plugged into it. I am a huge Jaguar fan and I don't like to rag on it but I feel this was poor design and they should have done something to avoid this sort of problem.

I do not know how many times I have seen people here and in other places say they fragged a jag in this manner. I have not heard of this kind of issue with any other system.

#8 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 3:40 AM

Thats the same mentality that has led to manufacturers of things stating the obvious.  Like bags of peanuts that have "Contains nuts" on the side to stop people with nut allergies eating them and then suing the manufacturer.


That is an absurd comparison. We are talking about a system that is expected to be connected to a television. Televisons frequently have more then one system connected to them. They made the plug exactly the same as other systems of the time despite the fact that those system's plugs will destroy the Jaguar if accidentally plugged into it. I am a huge Jaguar fan and I don't like to rag on it but I feel this was poor design and they should have done something to avoid this sort of problem.

I do not know how many times I have seen people here and in other places say they fragged a jag in this manner. I have not heard of this kind of issue with any other system.


And they all come with installation instructions. I am pretty sure they all say "Connect all leads up with the power off/PSU unplugged, and then once everything is connected plug it in." If you had done that simple step you wouldn't have fried anything as you would have plugged in the jag PSU and nothing would have happened.

Also plugging in each system one at a time may be more of a pain but probably safer if you are going to try a mass setup. Having lots of live unconnected PSU outputs lying around is probably a firehazard should they come into contact with each other and short.

Just because something fits doesn't mean you should trust it. A petrol pump hose will fit in the filler of my diesel car, and vice-versa. Yes people get it wrong, doesn't make it the car manufacturers fault does it?

#9 Gunstar ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:53 AM

I am very much aware of the possibility of killing a jag with other consoles power supplies. I look at them very carefully anytime I plug them in. I was just tired from moving and as I said... I accidentally went up with the wrong adapter.

I disagree with you on the idea that I should not blame Atari. At the time the Jaguar came out the Genesis and SNES were out and NES was still in a lot of homes. These consoles all used adapters with the same plug but reverse polarity from the Jag. I would say that it is extremely likely that people would make this mistake. Some people would accidentally use the wrong adapter and then there are people who will try to use another consoles adapter due to losing the Jags. You can do this with the other consoles without a problem. Atari should have thought of this and changed their design. It is sad how many Jags have gone this way,


Reversed polarity will not neccessarily burn out components, in most cases it just won't power up, the problem here is not reversed polarity (although it is reversed), but a problem with AC/DC! The Jaguar's power pack is an ACtoDC power converter as well, as are MOST power packs of this type, EXCEPT NINTENDO. Nintendo uses AC. So if it's anyone's fault, it's not Atari, but NINTENDO who screwed up by using an non-standard power pack. It's this AC power that burns out the Jaguar.

#10 Gunstar ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 9:56 AM

Genesis power packs on the other hand are identical and will work normally with a Jaguar and vise-versa becuase Atari and Sega were intelligent enough to use standard PS converters in DC.

#11 Gunstar ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 10:00 AM

by the way, this has happened to me twice (with my jaguars), once personally and once a friend plugged in a SNES AC powerpack, and I'm very careful, but I do have them labeled now. However, I never blamed Atari for this, it was nintendo's product that ruined my atari, not atari's.

#12 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 10:43 AM

Genesis power packs on the other hand are identical and will work normally with a Jaguar and vise-versa becuase Atari and Sega were intelligent enough to use standard PS converters in DC.


Wasn't it mentioned that this is only true of a specific generation of Genesis PSU's? I am sure someone said that there are Genesis PSU's which the polarity is the otherway round.

NINTENDO who screwed up by using an non-standard power pack. It's this AC power that burns out the Jaguar


It's hardly a standard. Doing the DC conversion in the PSU does give you more realestate in the console, but it's not a big problem.

I'd guess an AC console is more resilient to such mistakes? (anyone clarify this)

#13 Han OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 1:08 PM

Genesis power packs on the other hand are identical and will work normally with a Jaguar and vise-versa becuase Atari and Sega were intelligent enough to use standard PS converters in DC.


Wasn't it mentioned that this is only true of a specific generation of Genesis PSU's? I am sure someone said that there are Genesis PSU's which the polarity is the otherway round.


In Europe the Mega Drive II has reversed polarity compared to the MD I. I think it is the same with the Gensis II ....

#14 Stone OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 2:54 PM

Hardly fair to blame Atari - Page 3 of the manual says 'Use only the AC Adapter that came with your Jaguar 64-bit Interactive Multimedia System'. They did warn you.

The NES does indeed use AC, and the MegaDriveII/Genesis II is the opposite polarity to a MegaDriveI PSU. Those that are from a first-gen system have a yellow band around the end of the plug - don't think the others do, but I'm not certain.

Interestingly the SNES has a diode bridge in it so it can run off AC or DC - I guess they wanted to cut down on warranty returns from NES-owners :D

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#15 Great Hierophant OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 3:14 PM

Interestingly the SNES has a diode bridge in it so it can run off AC or DC - I guess they wanted to cut down on warranty returns from NES-owners.


I thought that the NES had a different power connector pin from the SNES, so the SNES power cable could not fit into a NES and vice-versa.

The NES must convert AC/DC within the console itself, after all don't all video game consoles run off DC power?

#16 dgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 4:00 PM

/ Slightly OT

Another lethal confusion I heard of quite a few times concerning an Atari device with comparable results:

Sticking your power adapter plug in the headphone socket of your Lynx
:D

This is a nice one to blame on Atari: These plug holes shouldn't be the same size

/Slightly OT

#17 Stone OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 6:44 PM

I thought that the NES had a different power connector pin from the SNES, so the SNES power cable could not fit into a NES and vice-versa.  

The NES must convert AC/DC within the console itself, after all don't all video game consoles run off DC power?

I don't know (don't have a SNES, just theorising), and yes. The SNES design has the pleasant side-effect that you can run it off pretty much any supply of vaguely the right voltage and plug size, at either polarity :)

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#18 Stone OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 6:46 PM

don't have a SNES

Whoops, that should have been don't have a NES

Come back edit function, all is forgiven!

Stone

#19 Artlover OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 3, 2004 8:03 PM

We are talking about a system that is expected to be connected to a television. Televisons frequently have more then one system connected to them. They made the plug exactly the same as other systems of the time despite the fact that those system's plugs will  destroy the Jaguar if accidentally plugged into it.

It was NOT Atari's responcibilty to design/use some propriatory plug or make their equipment compatable with whatever PSU you want to use.

The unit came with all the stuff it needed for propper operation. It came with instructions on how to hook it up and use it correctly. It specificly has a warning NOT to use other PSU's or you may damage your unit.

I do not know how many times I have seen people here and in other places say they fragged a jag in this manner.

All for the same reason too. People not taking the time to actually check that they grabbed the right PSU or plug end, and insteaded wanted to assume.

When I was digging my Jag out a few weeks ago when I scored that Doom cartridge. There was a PSU wrapped in with all the controller cables and crap. At first, I said to myself "thats prboably the right psu, why else would it be tangled in with all the other jag stuff". Then I said to myself "I only have the one jag, maybe I should double check". Looked at the PSU and it said NINTENDO. So I went back to the box it was in and kept digging till I found the PSU that said Atari JAGUAR. - I know, I'm such a goofy nut. :roll:

Sorry, you killed your jag because you were being lasy. Plain & Simple.

#20 Hyper_Eye OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 4, 2004 12:15 AM

Hey... you weren't there and you do not know what the exact situation was. Saying I was lazy is uncalled for and absolutely incorrect. I was careful and I did know the Nintendo adapter would fry the Jag. I am not sure where I errored but I did double check and I believe it was due to the fact that I had two adapters run to that shelf for the Jag and Jagcd. I find your comment insulting and uninformed. I have been on this forum only a month less then you and I have managed to go without insulting anyone even once on this forum and very rarely saying anything negative at all. I am of the opinion that Atari should have used a non-uniform design to the other consoles due to the reasons I have stated and I stand by my opinion on the issue. I debate on political forums everday and I love to debate. Insulting people, on the otherhand, I do not participate in.

#21 Artlover OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 4, 2004 3:12 AM

Fact #1: A Jag PSU won't fry a Jag (unless it's defective-duh)
Fact #2: PSU's are maked with name, voltage and polarity
Fact #3: A PSU's plugend is hard-wired to the PSU unit.

Did you "Hand-Follow" from the wallwart to the plug end?

If you did, I'll appoligize.

If you didn't, then please explain why my comment is incorrect.

#22 Hyper_Eye OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 4, 2004 3:38 AM

Fact #1: A Jag PSU won't fry a Jag (unless it's defective-duh)


Of course not. I may have gotten confused due to the extra adapter that said "Jaguar" on it.

Fact #2: PSU's are maked with name, voltage and polarity


Of course they are. I will take a picture of the setup I was working with. I think that will explain it a little better.

Fact #3: A PSU's plugend is hard-wired to the PSU unit.


Not always true. Anyway... as I stated before... I believe I was confused because of the JagCD. I have had these Jags for a long time and I don't usually plug the wrong adapters in (obviously or they wouldn't have lasted this long.) The first fried Jag was quite a few years ago before I know the adapters were different.

I did hand-follow but due to the constrained space, the fact that the flashlight I was using to see behind the entertainment center was dying, and the JagCD adapter it all added up to a toasted Jag.

I will take a picture (or I might have a dated picture from the last house) and it will be easier to understand.

#23 Artlover OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 4, 2004 11:46 PM

Sorry I jumped you like you like I did, in re-reading my responce, I will conceed it was over board and excessive.

Me, I'm a pefectionist. Which can be a very amusing thing to watch as a 3rd person. String with fishing weights hanging down the back of a bookcase, trying to hook it with a stretched out coathanger. :P

But to that end, I have spent hours on my back under my desk unwrapping & rewrapping 3" thick bundles of power coards and moving book filled bookcases. If I can't readily hand-follow, I'll take a shortcut and just pull the PSU or whatever it is out completely and rerun over again.

Even with my PC gear I'm like this. Have 3 different linksys routers, 1 no-name switch. All 4 have the exact same plug, all 4 have different voltage ratings. Believe me, I know your fustration with regards to this point. (Especialy when you unplug only one thing, but somehow something else gets unplugged too and being forced to redo everything.)

Excessive? Probably to most people. But to me, I can't be sure any other way. So I'll just buy a six pack, call a friend over and have a bookcase moving party. :P

#24 SCPCD OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 5, 2004 10:33 AM

Few years ago, I have bought a died Jaguar. This Jaguar was died as yours : an error of polarity of the AC/DC converter.

I have repared it and now it is my special development and test Jag.

I think that it is possible to repair yours as mine.

To prossess to the reparation, you must have experiences in SMT soldering : It's very important because componants on motherboard are very little and 2 componants to change on 3 are SMT.



1) First, you must open the Jag (and the iron cage).

Posted Image

2) Once the Jag is open, search the capacitor C134 (330uF 16V) just above the U38.
In my Jag, this componant was blow up.


You must remove this capacitor. Do not replace it before the next instruction : it will be
easier to replace the next componant.

3) You can see the U38 (MC34163DW) in the right of the MC68000 and below the C134.

This componant is a power switching regulator (9V->5V 3A MAX) and it doesn't like very well when the polarity is inverted. So, it is it that toast. Maybe you could see a distortion on the surface of this componant as shown below (maybe not as important as mine):

Posted Image

You shall replace it with the same part.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING : BE CARFUL WHEN YOU SOLD SMTs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't find the MC34163DW you can use the MC33163DW, the difference is in the operating temperature range : the MC34163DW = 0 to 70C and the MC33163DW = -40 to 85C.

When you have replace the U38, you can replace the C134.

4) Another componant shall be replaced : it is the REG1 (LM78L05ACM) (in the sound circuit).
This componant is a DC/DC converter (9V->5V 100mA MAX) and it is used for the audio power.
As the U38, if it is died, you can see a distortion on the surface as below :

Posted Image


If it is died, you don't have sound when the Jag works.

You shall replace it with the same part.


Normally, if you replace their componants with success, your Jag could work.


The reparation cost 5,2 euros HT for the France.

Regards.

#25 LinkoVitch OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Sep 5, 2004 11:16 AM

WOw thats an excellent guide there. Have you put it up on a website somewhere? I am sure several people would find it useful.




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