Game gear vs. Lynx

[Mr Egg]

as far as durability i have to go with the lynx . my Lynx I has been trough hell and back and still works like a champ . as far as battery life. if you can get your hands on the "d"size battery packaccesory that gives hours of play time or you can invent your own external battery pack . i use a sealed 1.5"x2"x3" sealed lead acid battery rated at 6 volts 4amp hours. it lasts forever playing the lynx . it only cost me bout 15 bucks to build.

 

here are some pics of my well worn lynx

[Gregory DG]

Me wants to cry... Wow, I've never seen a Lynx look so worn before. Methinks it needs a new paint job! How about ruby red?

[+davidcalgary29]

I try to keep an open mind about these things, but I was terribly disappointed with the Game Gear after having owned a Lynx (or three) for nearly a decade. The colour display is smeary and headache-inducing, and I haven't found one title that I've actually played for more than five minutes ("Sonics" included). The GG does have some pretty bizarre Japanese titles (I have two horse racing titles), but that's not enough for me to recommend the system over the Lynx.

[Trip_Cannon]

Were there any games that were on both handhelds? The only one I could find was Paperboy...

[TailChao]

Ms. PacMan was on both, and unfortunately, the GG port was more impressive. I can't think of any others off of the top of my head.

[Gregory DG]

Ms. PacMan was on both, and unfortunately, the GG port was more impressive. I can't think of any others off of the top of my head.

Super Skweek was on both systems too. The GG version was named differently though. Klax, Desert Strike, Ninja Gaiden, Double Dragon, Super Off-Road, and Shanghai 2 were also released on the GG.

[Trip_Cannon]

Can somebody who has played both versions of any of those games compare?

[Agent X]

The only ones from that list that I've played on both systems are Ms. Pac-Man, Klax, and Double Dragon. All three are better on the Lynx.

 

Ms. Pac-Man: In an unusual twist, the Game Gear version looks "better" graphically, due to a design decision made by the Lynx game programmers. The programmers took different approaches to trying to fit a comparatively high-resolution arcade game onto portable screens with about 1/4 the resolution (and a different aspect ratio, too). The Lynx version shrunk the graphics down, so that the entire maze could fit on the screen wihout scrolling. This means that the sprites used for the characters and fruits are only 5-6 pixels tall, and about the same width. The GG version has larger and more detailed sprites that look closer to the ones used in the arcade game. The downside is that only about half the maze is visible on the screen, so it now scrolls vertically (much like the 2600 version of Jr. Pac-Man). Sound was a bit better on the Lynx version. Where the Lynx really excels over the GG here is in gameplay. The Lynx version just feels more like the arcade game. The Lynx game also has many more options, including an alternate set of wider mazes (still fit on one screen, but using the full width of the screen). I don't remember how many mazes were in the alternate version, but I think it's somewhere around 20!

 

Klax: Lynx wins by a country mile. The game is good on either system--it's good on just about any system--but the Lynx version looks and sounds so much better than the Game Gear version that it isn't even funny.

 

Double Dragon: They're entirely different games. I only played the GG version briefly, but it was so unlike the arcade version (or even any of the other home versions) that it was as if the developers just programmed some generic beat-em-up, then obtained the Double Dragon license and pasted the name onto the title screen. The Lynx version is much more faithful to the arcade game, and plays pretty well. The one hitch to the Lynx version is that they took a similar approach to the GG Ms. Pac-Man programmers, and used sprites drawn at the same resolution as the arcade game. This means you get huge, detailed characters, but less of the playfield is visible (and therefore you do more scrolling).

[geosteve]

I prefer the Lynx over GG too, and prefer the Lynx version of Klax over GGs version anyday. the Lynx has some cool 3D games that the GG could not possobly compare too

 

I got a Lynx when it came out, early 1990, then sold that one to my sister when Lynx II arrived, however that one died (dead backlight) in 1998/1999, I had about 12 games for it that I could no longer play and didn't know how to fix it -- but I got another (with the case and 16 games) on eBaY.

[The_Laird]

Mmm some intresting stuff being banded about but to refer to a 1991 edition of ACE magazine, in their console reviews, they described the Lynx as "easily the most advanced game system in the world today, far more powerful than a Megadrive (Genesis) and even beating in most aspects the Super Nintendo". This was not some zealots magazine but a multi-format console and computer magazine aimed at adults. The Lynx did have hardware rotation (Stun Runner, California Games, Blue Lightning to mention a few that use it) as well as scaling, skewing, hardware scrolling, plasma effects, infinate sprites and a 32-bit 4-Channel stereo sound chip that could do digitised sound easier than the lamegear could display a sega logo. Compare a few games accross the systems Pit-Fighter on the Lynx makes the SNES and Megadrive versions look like a 2600 game as does others like Klax, Steel Talons, STUN Runner, Ninja Gaiden and many more. Anyone who has spent any time with this wonder machine will know how good it is. It took the Gameboy Advance (a portable SNES) and 12 years to even compare to it.

[shep]

I don't know about screen resolutions, durability or whatever. All I know is that for my gaming preference, the GG has a much better game library.

[sage]

The Lynx did have hardware rotation (Stun Runner, California Games, Blue Lightning to mention a few that use it) as well as scaling, skewing, hardware scrolling, plasma effects, infinate sprites and a  

[*]No rotation.

[*]Hardwarescrolling... its not what i would call hardware"scrolling".

[*]And what did you mean by "plasma"???

32-bit 4-Channel stereo sound chip that could do digitised sound easier  

4 channels a 8 bit

[crc_73]

Lemmings is also on both systems. I can't compare, as I've only played the GG version, and in my opinion, it's a very good port, very playable. The GG screen is a bit blurrier with faster movement games, but because of the nature of Lemmings, this isn't a problem, it runs very well.

 

Plus, you're likely to pay ten times less for a GG Lemmings cart!

 

As a little extra, I really like the Lynx, because of the quality of some of the arcade conversions (Robotron, Rampart, Rampage and Rygar are all top quality cards), but I must admit that the GG has it's share of gems too. As far as platformers go, I think the GG excels, esp. with the Mickey Mouse series (the Sonics are very dull in comparison). Platformers on the Lynx aren't so hot (look at Batman Returns and Ninja Gaiden - complete rubbish - Rygar is the exception, as far as I've played). But I must admit that one of the most fun games I've ever played on either system is the tennis game on the 4-in-one cart for the GG - it reminds me a lot of the tennis game in the brilliant arcade game "Capcom Sports Club". It could have been an excellent two player game, but the CPU throws in a very good and fair game throughout the 4 difficulty settings.

[+davidcalgary29]

It's worth remembering that the Lynx and Game Gear were competitors for a relatively short period of time, and that it's only really fair to compare titles for the two systems between, say, 1990-1992, when the majority of Lynx titles were coded. The Game Gear had a much longer consumer life, and games improved markedly as coding skills advanced. Only one "second generation" game for the Lynx was ever produced -- Alpine Games -- and that one simply blows everything else in the Lynx library out of the water. If more games of this calibre had been produced, I think that we could make a better comparison of the respective capabilities of the Lynx and Game Gear.

[The_Laird]

Ok, let me explain in more detail for those who are un-informed. The Lynx had 2 main custom chips, Tom and Jerry. One was a 16-bit graphics chip that gave us the scaling (on sprites and backgrounds unlike the SNES), Rotation, Skewing, Hardware scrolling ( a tecnique first seen on the Amiga but also used on the Genesis and Atari STE that enables the hardware to scroll without being told and by pixel to a defined speed making it incredibly smooth, this was best seen on Shadow Of The Beast with 12 levels of parallex scrolling at once!) and Plasma which it a distortion routine that enables sprites or scrolling/still backgrounds to wobble, like a kind of wave effect, which can best be seen on Gates Of Zendocon. Another good example on another system is Gynoug on the Genesis, seems to be used alot on shooters. The other chip was a 32-bit DSP which ran the 4-Channel sound as well as organising the rest of the console, holding digitised sound and was regarded by most Lynx coders as the 'real' cpu of the machine. The 6502C was mearly a slave processor (like the 68000 in the Jaguar) that ran stuff the Comlynx connections and joypad etc. Its this hardware that made the Lynx a 16-bit machine much like the Jaguar being a 64-bit machine. Take a look at Pit-Fighter, STUN Runner, Steel Talons, Hard Drivin, the list goes on, and tell me a Lamegear or any of the other handhelds till the GB Advance could have even attempted a conversion.

[Shawn Jefferson]

A few corrections:

 

Ok, let me explain in more detail for those who are un-informed. The Lynx had 2 main custom chips, Tom and Jerry.

 

Mikey and Suzy. Suzy being the sprite hardware and Mikey being the cpu, audio, timers, etc... Suzy also did hardware math.

 

The other chip was a 32-bit DSP which ran the 4-Channel sound as well as organising the rest of the console, holding digitised sound and was regarded by most Lynx coders as the 'real' cpu of the machine. The 6502C was mearly a slave processor (like the 68000 in the Jaguar) that ran stuff the Comlynx connections and joypad etc.

 

Mikey had a 65C02 processor built-into it, and it wasn't a "slave" processor, it did most of the computation with the exception of sprite drawing, etc.. as you mentioned. It had audio and timers built into it as well.

 

Its this hardware that made the Lynx a 16-bit machine much like the Jaguar being a 64-bit machine.

 

That is debatable, since the data bus is still only 8-bits wide so technically that classifies the Lynx as an 8-bit machine. I wonder why people think that it was 16-bit? Can anyone answer that question?

[TailChao]

I wonder why people think that it was 16-bit?  Can anyone answer that question?

A complete ignorance towards real hardware limitations, oh and a bit of Atari advertising http://www.atariage.com/catalog_page.html?...1&currentPage=2

This seems to match the opinion perfectly.

 

I'd suggest Mr. Kizza should read the Lynx Dev Docs =P

[TailChao]

Further corrections

(Sorry about the double post)

 

Rotation, Skewing, Hardware scrolling ( a tecnique first seen on the Amiga but also used on the Genesis and Atari STE that enables the hardware to scroll without being told and by pixel to a defined speed making it incredibly smooth, this was best seen on Shadow Of The Beast with 12 levels of parallex scrolling at once!) and Plasma which it a distortion routine that enables sprites or scrolling/still backgrounds to wobble, like a kind of wave effect, which can best be seen on Gates Of Zendocon. Another good example on another system is Gynoug on the Genesis, seems to be used alot on shooters

Because of the Lynx's all-sprite display, the programmer has two potions to scroll, either move all of the background objects over individually (CPU intensive, but easier to get a nice parallax effect with different scrolling speeds) or all at once by moving the lynx's display window about the display world (more like your description)

 

By "12 levels of parallax" you could mean one background layer with different objects moving at different speeds, or 12 different background layers stacked on top of each other (difficult to get decent performance this way on the lynx because of Suzy's speed). Neither one is paticularly complex, and the first one described can be used with nearly the entire screen in a console such as the Genesis (about 224 "levels")

 

The wave effect is merely offsetting different lines of a graphic, similar to parallax in most cases. The NES or GameBoy can handle an effect like that.

 

The other chip was a 32-bit DSP which ran the 4-Channel sound as well as organising the rest of the console, holding digitised sound and was regarded by most Lynx coders as the 'real' cpu of the machine. The 6502C was mearly a slave processor (like the 68000 in the Jaguar) that ran stuff the Comlynx connections and joypad etc. Its this hardware that made the Lynx a 16-bit machine much like the Jaguar being a 64-bit machine.

Like sage said, there were four 8-bit DACs embedded in Mickey, this does not give true "32-bit" processing. And since this seemingly limitless CPU as you describe it, was the real powerhouse of the lynx, might I ask why it is documented only for use in sound. I'd doubt Epyx's official documentation misplaced a CPU. The device is simply an advanced 4-square wave sound system with capability for distortion and full control of any of the 4 8-bit DACs by the 65C02.

 

As for the lynx being 16-bit, the only element that was 16-bit in the console was Suzy (although you could include the 65C02's addressing ) I personally consider it 16-bit, athough only in the sense of the TurboGrafx/PC-Engine (Which was considerably more powerful)

 

It took the Gameboy Advance (a portable SNES) and 12 years to even compare to it.

The GBA is completely different from the SNES, the only thing they have in common is the GBA's endless ports of the SNES's games.

 

Compare a few games accross the systems Pit-Fighter on the Lynx makes the SNES and Megadrive versions look like a 2600 game as does others like Klax, Steel Talons, STUN Runner, Ninja Gaiden and many more.

I love how you fail to mention the most impressive lynx game to date, Alpine Games. The ones you listed could never compare to the likes of Gunstar Heroes or Super Metroid.

 

[/Rant]

[sage]

Ok, let me explain in more detail for those who are un-informed. The Lynx had 2 main custom chips, Tom and Jerry.

 

tom and jerry are the jaguar chips.

 

One was a 16-bit graphics chip that gave us the scaling (on sprites and backgrounds unlike the SNES), Rotation, Skewing,

 

again... no hardware rotation possible. scaling, skewing and tilting but nothing else.

 

Hardware scrolling ( a tecnique first seen on the Amiga but also used on the Genesis and Atari STE that enables the hardware to scroll without being told and by pixel to a defined speed making it incredibly smooth, this was best seen on Shadow Of The Beast with 12 levels of parallex scrolling at once!)

 

the Atari STE Hardwarescrolling is done by increasing the screenbuffer and then setting an word plus pixeloffset into it. This information is used by the shifter which converts memory to pixel information for output.

 

The "scrolling" of the lynx is only an additional offset to the sprite engine (which is in fact only a fast blitter engine). There is NO scrollable buffer.

 

and Plasma which it a distortion routine that enables sprites or scrolling/still backgrounds to wobble, like a kind of wave effect, which can best be seen on Gates Of Zendocon.

 

Which is exactly the scaling and tilting you were talking about...

Plasma effect are something totally different.

 

The other chip was a 32-bit DSP which ran the 4-Channel sound as well as organising the rest of the console, holding digitised sound and was regarded by most Lynx coders as the 'real' cpu of the machine.

 

You are again talking about the Jaguar. And even then this would be wrong. On the Jaguar the GPU is the main processor and not the sound dsp.

 

The lynx has no sound processor as it is inplemented inside of mikey, the 65c02. Ans the lynx "gpu" is not programmable therfore cannot be used a "processor".

 

Maybe mr.kizza should RTFD before making wrong statement.

[catharton]

I haven't found one title that I've actually played for more than five minutes ("Sonics" included).  The GG does have some pretty bizarre Japanese titles (I have two horse racing titles), but that's not enough for me to recommend the system over the Lynx.

 

There were some good RPGs, including the almost-unheard-of Crystal Warriors. That had me glued for weeks until someone stole my GG (and the TV Tuner ).

[Beer Monkey]

Can anyone name a Turbografx/TurboExpress game that creates any effective high-speed pseudo-3D effects like STUN Runner on the Lynx?

 

How about any game that creates a realtime, true-3D, fully explorable graphical environment like Steel Talons?

 

As far as I'm concerned, the Turbo Express is more powerful than the Lynx in many ways, but not in all ways. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. I'm not convinced that its fixed-size 16-sprites-per-scan line combined with software scaling would be able to recreate every Lynx game.

 

This is all typical No systems of a given generation is typically stronger than all of its opponents in all ways; usually they each have their strengths and weaknesses.

[TailChao]

Can anyone name a Turbografx/TurboExpress game that creates any effective high-speed pseudo-3D effects like STUN Runner on the Lynx?

 

How about any game that creates a realtime, true-3D, fully explorable graphical environment like Steel Talons?

 

As far as I'm concerned, the Turbo Express is more powerful than the Lynx in many ways, but not in all ways.  I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary.  I'm not convinced that its fixed-size 16-sprites-per-scan line combined with software scaling would be able to recreate every Lynx game.

 

This is all typical   No systems of a given generation is typically stronger than all of its opponents in all ways; usually they each have their strengths and weaknesses.

After Burner II for the Turbo runs at a constant 60FPS and uses both software scaling and multiple sized graphics for artificial scaling. Although it may not be as impressive as most lynx games in a sense of graphics manipulation, the fact remains that the Turbo is manipulating these objects at a constant 60FPS, whereas the lynx maintains 6-15FPS for its own games. This jump in time is more than enough for the turbo's CPU to assist in generating a display, and with some clipping on the edges (ala SNES Starfox, speed up SuperFX-SNES transfers) it could easily pass the lynx. Running the game in a 160x102 windowspace would ease the process further.

 

Although either way, I would rather play most of the games you mentioned on my Lynx anyway.

[Beer Monkey]

Running the games in a small 160x102x4bpp window on the turbo with software scaling would not be a large issue, particularly with steel talon's framerate.

 

Well, we're talking about an Express, which doesn't have enough TFT elements to display any of the TG-16s graphics modes without dropping pixels. Play any game with text onscreen and this is immediately apparent, though I'm not sure of the exact resolution of the display (anyone know)?. So your window would actually have to be larger than 160x102 in order to actually display on the TE screen with the same resolution as a Lynx.

 

Are you planning on using sprites or tiles to render the polygons? Let me know some of the details of your approach and I'll analyze it.

 

Are you going to whip up a demo for us?

[Beer Monkey]

Wow, you completely edited your post, it now looks nothing like before.

 

I didn't think editing was allowed by the board configuration here.

[TailChao]

Wow, you completely edited your post, it now looks nothing like before.

 

I didn't think editing was allowed by the board configuration here.

It isn't, the quote you took was from an older post on the last page.